Phantom 5 Leaks

[Drestin Black]

I'd like to make a comment re: formatting Flash drive over and over. NO benefit. Period.
In the beginning days of flash drives we were still using FAT or FAT32. A bug in the FAT table and you'd have a problem. Reformatting was the only way to reliably reset the FAT table and, *RARELY* detect a bad sector to lock out and I'm talking so rare that I'd only heard of it but never experienced it. Also, if you are performing a "quick" format, you are not checking sectors, just laying down an empty FAT table and that's it.
These days, drives are not only more reliable they do their own failing sector detection in real time and reallocate them from a spare sector area and do lock outs on their own. Plus more likely you are using NTFS which doesn't suffer errors like FAT did and is, basically, redundant and faultless (through use of atom transactions and redundancy checking).
ALL you are doing is forcing the drive hardware (that does eventually wear out) to work harder than necessary and expiring it quicker than necessary.

Short version: These are not your granddad's memory cards, formatting isn't helping at best, and hurting a little at worst.

 

[GadgetGuy]

When you have the card in the computer, consider just deleting the video files instead of reformatting all the time. That minimizes the writes to the card and lowers risk of a bad format. I personally don't like formatting anything that doesn't need it, kinda like compass calibrations.

Duly noted, but I have followed this professional photographer advice of formatting in the camera for the last 20 years, and it is also recommended by @bladestrike for our drones. Format the card in the device you intend to use it in. Historically, less issues that way. Frankly, all it does is delete the file index anyway, so it is no more write intensive than deleting the files themselves. Only time I have ever had a bad format in the aircraft was when I had first formatted in my TV first, breaking my own rule of formatting in another device!

 

[Drestin Black]

Yes, YouTube does a great job of hosting my master files

Take note that every time you upload to YouTube then download back again, you are not getting the original file, you are getting the transcoded version - you will always suffer some IQ loss.

 

[GadgetGuy]

I'd like to make a comment re: formatting Flash drive over and over. NO benefit. Period.
In the beginning days of flash drives we were still using FAT or FAT32. A bug in the FAT table and you'd have a problem. Reformatting was the only way to reliably reset the FAT table and, *RARELY* detect a bad sector to lock out and I'm talking so rare that I'd only heard of it but never experienced it. Also, if you are performing a "quick" format, you are not checking sectors, just laying down an empty FAT table and that's it.
These days, drives are not only more reliable they do their own failing sector detection in real time and reallocate them from a spare sector area and do lock outs on their own. Plus more likely you are using NTFS which doesn't suffer errors like FAT did and is, basically, redundant and faultless (through use of atom transactions and redundancy checking).
ALL you are doing is forcing the drive hardware (that does eventually wear out) to work harder than necessary and expiring it quicker than necessary.

Short version: These are not your granddad's memory cards, formatting isn't helping at best, and hurting a little at worst.

The quick format performed in the aircraft frees up the space on the card, and it is laying down an empty FAT table, which is all that is necessary to use the full capacity of the card. That is no more drive hardware intensive than "deleting" the files in the computer, which also only removes them from the FAT table. Both do the same thing. My method keeps the originals on the card as a tertiary backup until the card is actually needed. What's wrong about that?

 

[GadgetGuy]

Take note that every time you upload to YouTube then download back again, you are not getting the original file, you are getting the transcoded version - you will always suffer some IQ loss.

Fully understood, which is why I have hard drive backups of all originals, and also keep my original cards unused for a month before recycling them! However, in the event of a complete disaster, my 100mbs 4K YouTube uploads are good enough for government work, assuming YouTube survives Armageddon, too!

 

[Drestin Black]

The quick format performed in the aircraft frees up the space on the card, and it is laying down an empty FAT table, which is all that is necessary to use the full capacity of the card. That is no more drive hardware intensive than "deleting" the files in the computer, which also only removes them from the FAT table. Both do the same thing. My method keeps the originals on the card as a tertiary backup until the card is actually needed. What's wrong about that?

Not intending to criticize your method, sir.
If it's doing a quick format then I'd agree it's not terribly harmful. The originals on the card (in an un-delete-able state) will be there unless it does a full format. Do we know it's a quick format? I rather assumed it was a full.

 

[Drestin Black]

assuming YouTube survives Armageddon, too!

A Google AI probably started it... should be safe

 

[GadgetGuy]

Not intending to criticize your method, sir.
If it's doing a quick format then I'd agree it's not terribly harmful. The originals on the card (in an un-delete-able state) will be there unless it does a full format. Do we know it's a quick format? I rather assumed it was a full.

Good! Highly doubtful that it is a full format. On a 64GB card it takes like 5 seconds in the aircraft. That's got to be a quick format!

 

[GadgetGuy]

A Google AI probably started it... should be safe

I figure if YouTube's files don't survive, neither will I!

 

[Drestin Black]

Good! Highly doubtful that it is a full format. On a 64GB card it takes like 5 seconds in the aircraft. That's got to be a quick format!

A quick format needs literally to only write out a exFat FAT table, one second?

 

[GadgetGuy]

A quick format needs literally to only write out a exFat FAT table, one second?

For comparison purposes, how long should a full format of a 64GB card take?
When I say "like 5 seconds," it could, in fact, be one second, but the combination of relaying of the command over LB from the tablet to the aircraft, completing it in 1 second, and then relaying back the completion of the formatting over LB to the tablet, and then the display of the Format Complete modal dialog box on the screen, requiring acknowledgement, altogether take roughly 5 seconds total. Your thoughts?

 

[GadgetGuy]

A quick format needs literally to only write out a exFat FAT table, one second?

I have now timed the format of a 64GB microSD card in the aircraft, instead of guessing. It's under 2 seconds from the moment I click Format until the "Card formatted" dialogue message appears, so it clearly is a nondestructive quick format.

 

[Numone]

It should only take one "oh dang" moment to get you carrying more than one or two cards in your drone case.
This is what you need if you ever go pro.

Note the cards are only 16GB which is plenty for all the 4K video you can shoot with one battery.
Huge SD cards are wasted $$ if you are doing serious drone photography.

I agree with you completely Meta4. It only took one occasion to get it in the air and only THEN realise (you idiot!) that I'd forgot to put the card back in the AC after downloading the pics and footage to the PC, to pop another in the case (and now two more for luck!). Yeah, yeah... I know how they're very expensive and they take-up so much space in there, bu.... oh, hang on...

 

[ftttu]

现在是预言时间！Mavic 2会是什么样子 – KANZHAJI 看炸机-无人机炸机资讯站

I was just thinking out loud over at mavicpilots.com in a mavic 2 thread. The above thread says the next gen Mavic will be larger to accommodate a larger 1" camera, so if that's true, I can't see DJI continuing the same Phantom form factor if both birds will be of similar size and performance. As some of y'all may have remembered, my desire for a next gen Phantom was the form factor of a Mavic Pro but just larger so it could accommodate a larger camera and for it to be able to be more steady in stronger winds.

If my wondering out loud speculation is correct, I could see DJI making the Phantom series more professionally capable and closer to the Inspire line. I have no idea how Inspires are selling, but if they aren't a big of a seller DJI hoped they would be, a Phantom 5 "Pro" would be a big seller...if it had many of the upgrades this thread has discussed. Again, this is just me thinking out loud.

 

[JoeG729]

If this is for real, ability to fly in rain will be a big plus for search missions, the interchangeable focal length lens a big plus, but most of all DJI is addressing the shell cracking issue with a carbon fiber shell. I think on Black Friday 2018 I'm going to I won't be able to resist buying one

 

[hit-n-run]

Take note that every time you upload to YouTube then download back again, you are not getting the original file, you are getting the transcoded version - you will always suffer some IQ loss.

I suffer IQ loss reading everyone's opinions on this forum.

 

[GadgetGuy]

I suffer IQ loss reading everyone's opinions on this forum.

Then something must wrong. Reading doesn't lower IQ. See a doctor immediately, or stop reading!

 

[Bad Andy]

I'd like to make a comment re: formatting Flash drive over and over. NO benefit. Period.
In the beginning days of flash drives we were still using FAT or FAT32. A bug in the FAT table and you'd have a problem. Reformatting was the only way to reliably reset the FAT table and, *RARELY* detect a bad sector to lock out and I'm talking so rare that I'd only heard of it but never experienced it. Also, if you are performing a "quick" format, you are not checking sectors, just laying down an empty FAT table and that's it.
These days, drives are not only more reliable they do their own failing sector detection in real time and reallocate them from a spare sector area and do lock outs on their own. Plus more likely you are using NTFS which doesn't suffer errors like FAT did and is, basically, redundant and faultless (through use of atom transactions and redundancy checking).
ALL you are doing is forcing the drive hardware (that does eventually wear out) to work harder than necessary and expiring it quicker than necessary.

Short version: These are not your granddad's memory cards, formatting isn't helping at best, and hurting a little at worst.

I totally disagree.

First of all, last I looked my P3A could only read and write FAT32. So unless we hear that the P5 will do NTFS, I think it's unproductive to discuss it here.

One immediate benefit to starting off with a freshly formatted volume is a virtual guarantee that new files get written contiguously. This can be a life-saver if a FAT or volume descriptor corruption issue somehow crops up later, as it makes accurate and complete file recovery from a raw volume a relative snap.

Another benefit may be less relevant these days. A fresh format guarantees that you don't start out with file system corruption due to incorrectly ejected/dismounted flash memory. Modern operating systems reduce the possibility of this problem by preventing write caching to flash devices, but hasty flash removal can still cause problems.

Also I'd go so far as to say that if a format operation is such a horrible burden that it risks premature wear of the drive hardware, I'd be much more concerned about the hardware load while writing and reading countless gigabytes of .MOV files.

The only down-side to formatting flash memory is the possibility of a workflow gaffe causing you to format a card before getting files from it safely. Which is to say that I also check all the files I copy from flash memory after copying them (to a mirrored volume). I've seen fluky flash readers do terrible things.

PS, I've seen NTFS volumes become badly corrupted too. It does happen. Please don't ask me about a corrupted NTFS causing a non-bootable email/web server, then watching a tape drive eat tape out of the latest backup cartridge while trying to read it. Oh, the fun.

And I've also had the pleasure of programming recovery tools to look for and recover .CR2 files after a corrupted volume on a CF card made a day of work with my DSLR disappear. It was after that day that I decided a fresh format was cheap and invaluable insurance.

 

[why]

To me, my wishes for the next P5 would be:

1a- Better camera: for instance, better behaviour with higher ISO
1b- 360 deg camera !
2- No more gimbal glitch
3- Better anti-collusion sensors
4- Some IP protection as well. Not that I would be interested to fly in mansoon rains like where I live (Guangzhou, south of China)... but at least, be able to fly in slight rain without being scared to death to loose the bird...

Concerning SD cards, I rely solely on Sandisk' 64G Extreme Pro. I always have back-up cards in case my forgetfulness strikes and I didn't empty it prior to the flight.
I thought long time about purchasing a portable HDD drive that can be used to empty SD cards on field, but I am not very convinced: HDD's are very fragile and too risky to use on field...

 

[John Locke]

4- Some IP protection as well. Not that I would be interested to fly in mansoon rains like where I live (Guangzhou, south of China)... but at least, be able to fly in slight rain without being scared to death to loose the bird...

If it's slight rain for a short period, you shouldn't worry too much. The problem is it's hard to determine if it's slight, or heavy rain, where the craft is. The camera view is all you have to determine that, so when you see drops on the camera, immediate and prompted return to home is warranted. Besides, there's no use to hang out in the rain anyway when the camera view is impaired. The P4P was designed to help mitigate slight rain (compared to P3 design) by putting the vents on the bottom of the motor arms. The motors are fairly immune to slight rain. Although not 100% waterproof, the vast majority of slight rain will not enter the craft. Slight rain should not hinder the craft from returning safely. I've only flown in slight rain 3 times, quickly wiped of the craft upon return and never had a problem subsequently during flight. This has increased my confidence in the design.