Litchi/AutoPilot Apps void your warranty

Should this be legal?


  • Total voters
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I got the email kind of late yesterday. I plan to call them back this morning. Im furious.
Along with all the other recommendations on here (calling them back, Facebook post, etc) If you do not get anywhere when you call back, I would send an email to Ryan Tong (post #7) and get his recommendation on this. Seeing he sent an email, speaking on DJI's behalf, saying that 3rd party apps DO NOT VOID the waranty.
Good luck my friend!
 
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What questions were asked and answered in the last 22 days while they reveiwed the logs?

As i mentiined earlier. Consider asking them to supply the log file from the aircraft (or have them return it and extract the .dat file yourself). Post it here and you will be amazed what a few of the members here will be able to tell you about the cause of the crash. This will put you in a strong position to argue your position if it was a hardware or DJI software failure.

Tell us what actually happened leading up to the crash. Where you flying a mission, did the AC just fall out if the sky, hit an obstacle, took off uncontrolably etc?

Hopefully you have a good outcome. I mostly fly with the GO App but also use litchi, autopilot and other apps. It will be very concerning if this is the attitude of DJI going foreard.
So to start, my UAV went to the bottom of a lake. I was filming a sail boat race. As I have several times before. I launched one last time to get a few boats going over the finish line. I was bring my bird back in when she stated going down. the motors execrated and I pushed the throttle straight up. It wasn't working and I watched my bird go into the water about 20 feet from me. It was not windy and I was 20-30 feet in the air when she went straight down.

I filled out a form that DJI sent me. It explained all of the above and more. I told them I used Litchi. I also sent them my flight logs. During the 22 days I emailed the twice and called one and chatted online once, to ask if they had everything. No response by email, online chat said, "wait for email" and the phone tech said yes they got the logs. Then I get an email stating we can't determine what happened because we don't have your logs. (I will post the emails) It easier then telling the rest of the story. But its obvious they DO NOT read emails...
 
What is VRS
VRS= vortex ring state... A problem with earlier phantoms when descending straight down fast and dropping rapidly.

Unlikely your issue.

On the limited information shared it is more likley you entered critical battery (you had low battery cells reported early in the flight and later occasions and took off at around 50% so software determined capacity may have been off also).

The aircraft entered auto landing. Thats why you couldn't increase altitude.
 
VRS= vortex ring state... A problem with earlier phantoms when descending straight down fast and dropping rapidly.

Unlikely your issue.

On the limited information shared it is more likley you entered critical battery (you had low battery cells reported early in the flight and later occasions and took off at around 50% so software determined capacity may have been off also).

The aircraft entered auto landing. Thats why you couldn't increase altitude.
Ya I figured 50% was fine for the two minutes I needed. I don't recall a warning pop up to indicate a problem. Any suggestions? Does it appear I did something wrong, to you?
 
With The Birds, I hope this helps. My goal is to be honest and transparent. If I was in the wrong I would NOT expect them to honor the warranty. But people should know how sorry they DJI is.

Nathan


said 15 days ago



Dear,



Please confirm the date and time of the incident you experienced with your Phantom.



Our data analysis team was unable to locate the flight log containing the incident.





Thank you for your understanding



For quicker assistance please feel free to utilize our Live Chat option by following the link provided: DJI Support - Here for You







Me

said 15 days ago

It was 05-29-16 at 2:53 pm





Me

said 15 days ago

As I said before, i tried to sync the logs, but i cant tell if they did. I have the logs in my healthy drones account. Please let me know if you are not able to view them. I sent a link on the form you gave me.








Nathan

said 12 days ago



Dear



Without being able to analyze the unit, or the flight logs at our repair facilities, we will not be able to determine cause of the behavior 100%, therefore we will not be able to apply the warranty to your product.





For quicker assistance please feel free to utilize our Live Chat option by following the link provided: DJI Support - Here for You







Me

said 12 days ago

I have the the flight logs. I told you guys that





Nathan

said 12 days ago

Dear



Please upload your flight records to our cloud please.











For quicker assistance please feel free to utilize our Live Chat option by following the link provided: DJI Support - Here for You







Me

said 12 days ago

Ok. I will do that now. I had asked multiple times if you had received them but I never heard back. Even when I chatted online.



On Jun 10, 2016 13:48, "DJI

Me

said 12 days ago

I dont know how to make them sync. Per the instructions on the sheet you sent me, I attached the flight log.





ZIP


(9.57 MB)





Me

said 8 days ago

Were you able to see my logs? Does anyone even realize I sent them?



Nathan

said 5 days ago

Dear



Thank you for your patience. Please send screenshot of your flight record. Please see attachment for example.







For quicker assistance please feel free to utilize our Live Chat option by following the link provided: DJI Support - Here for You



PNG

cloudsync.png

(488 KB)



Me

said 5 days ago

Here is my screen shot. With Litchi App this is how they are viewed. I have sent you all my logs and I do not understand why you are asking for more information. I followed the instructions given at the beginning.



When I called today I was told a third party app may void my warranty. But I have an email from your company that states otherwise.



You have more than enough information. I will seek other legal options to resolve this claim if necessary.

PNG

Screen Shot ...

(782 KB)




Derek

said 1 day ago



Dear



Our company does not warranty flights that have been flown with 3rd party applications



We would like to offer you 15% off a new purchase of a Phantom 3 Professional - Aircraft (Excludes Remote Controller and Battery Charger)



To accept this offer, please reply affirmatively, and a coupon code for this item will be mailed to you.



Please also reply with your proof of purchase for your product.



**Failure to include the proper paperwork and proof of purchase will delay this process.**



Thank you for your patience and support of DJI.





For quicker assistance please feel free to utilize our Live Chat option by following the link provided: DJI Support - Here for You
 
With The Birds, I hope this helps. My goal is to be honest and transparent. If I was in the wrong I would NOT expect them to honor the warranty. But people should know how sorry they DJI is.

Nathan


said 15 days ago



Dear,



Please confirm the date and time of the incident you experienced with your Phantom.



Our data analysis team was unable to locate the flight log containing the incident.





Thank you for your understanding



For quicker assistance please feel free to utilize our Live Chat option by following the link provided: DJI Support - Here for You







Me

said 15 days ago

It was 05-29-16 at 2:53 pm





Me

said 15 days ago

As I said before, i tried to sync the logs, but i cant tell if they did. I have the logs in my healthy drones account. Please let me know if you are not able to view them. I sent a link on the form you gave me.








Nathan

said 12 days ago



Dear



Without being able to analyze the unit, or the flight logs at our repair facilities, we will not be able to determine cause of the behavior 100%, therefore we will not be able to apply the warranty to your product.





For quicker assistance please feel free to utilize our Live Chat option by following the link provided: DJI Support - Here for You







Me

said 12 days ago

I have the the flight logs. I told you guys that





Nathan

said 12 days ago

Dear



Please upload your flight records to our cloud please.











For quicker assistance please feel free to utilize our Live Chat option by following the link provided: DJI Support - Here for You







Me

said 12 days ago

Ok. I will do that now. I had asked multiple times if you had received them but I never heard back. Even when I chatted online.



On Jun 10, 2016 13:48, "DJI

Me

said 12 days ago

I dont know how to make them sync. Per the instructions on the sheet you sent me, I attached the flight log.





ZIP


(9.57 MB)





Me

said 8 days ago

Were you able to see my logs? Does anyone even realize I sent them?



Nathan

said 5 days ago

Dear



Thank you for your patience. Please send screenshot of your flight record. Please see attachment for example.







For quicker assistance please feel free to utilize our Live Chat option by following the link provided: DJI Support - Here for You



PNG

cloudsync.png

(488 KB)



Me

said 5 days ago

Here is my screen shot. With Litchi App this is how they are viewed. I have sent you all my logs and I do not understand why you are asking for more information. I followed the instructions given at the beginning.



When I called today I was told a third party app may void my warranty. But I have an email from your company that states otherwise.



You have more than enough information. I will seek other legal options to resolve this claim if necessary.

PNG

Screen Shot ...

(782 KB)




Derek

said 1 day ago



Dear



Our company does not warranty flights that have been flown with 3rd party applications



We would like to offer you 15% off a new purchase of a Phantom 3 Professional - Aircraft (Excludes Remote Controller and Battery Charger)



To accept this offer, please reply affirmatively, and a coupon code for this item will be mailed to you.



Please also reply with your proof of purchase for your product.



**Failure to include the proper paperwork and proof of purchase will delay this process.**



Thank you for your patience and support of DJI.





For quicker assistance please feel free to utilize our Live Chat option by following the link provided: DJI Support - Here for You
 
You honesty isnt being questioned here Nathan. Certainly not by me.

The issue is now more of a lost AC issue and what we know of DJI's response in these issues than the question of the APP you were flying with.

It does seem you had a critical battery auto land issue (I posted my earlier response before i saw your post with detail of the flight).

The problem now is that without the AC there is no way to retreive the flight log from the AC. It contains a LOT more info than the flight log from the app. If it was available and ultimately demnstrated a battery or AC hardware/software issue you likley you would be covered. There may some resistance but you would probably get through it with warranty honoured.


In other cases detailed here where people have lost their AC over water or in other circumstances where they couldnt retreive it i have seen it claimed DJI offered 50% discount.

You could upload your flight log to healthydrones.com (instructions on site) and post a link here. That may tell us more.

Hope this works out ok.
 
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You honesty isnt being questioned here Nathan. Certainly not by me.

The issue is now more of a lost AC issue and what we know of DJI's response in these issues than the question of the APP you were flying with.

It does seem you had a critical battery auto land issue (I posted my earlier response before i saw your post with detail of the flight).

The problem now is that without the AC there is no way to retreive the flight log from the AC. It contains a LOT more info than the flight log from the app. If it was available and ultimately demnstrated a battery or AC hardware/software issue you likley you would be covered. There may some resistance but you would probably get through it with warranty honoured.


In other cases detailed here where people have lost their AC over water or in other circumstances where they couldnt retreive it i have seen it claimed DJI offered 50% discount.

You could upload your flight log to healthydrones.com (instructions on site) and post a link here. That may tell us more.

Hope this works out ok.
Ok, here ya go.
Here is the sharing link:

HealthyDrones.com - Innovative flight data analysis that matters
 
Last edited:
They are crafty $h!t$ ! Ever read the T&c as you install the new app? You give up the right to class action (for what that's worth) and tampering with THIER drone by using other apps is not allowed...sounds like a well known phone maker lent them a lawyer!!

If our vote today means UK leaves the EI then we will invade and conquer them again! OOPS! We haven't got any aircraft carriers left !! Would send drones to attack but they crash over water!......


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app
 
well, in this case I have to agree with DJI
reason is simple - you can't prove it was hardware failure
the reason they have their flight logs encrypted (in some way) is to not be able to fake them
and if all you have is some CSV file from Litchi, well, that's too bad

for some people that would be very easy-made money
I'd take one day vacation and create the CSV file just out of the blue (or use some other users' CSVs)
then I complain to DJI that my Phantom fell into the lake (or river or sea) because of some failure and I give them the CSV file
and they give me new Phantom

only in our dreams

if you, Guardmy6, were them, how would you tell if user is telling the true or he's just fooling you?
it's impossible to tell it if all you have is CSV file and no actual flight log (TXT or DAT)
 
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well, in this case I have to agree with DJI
reason is simple - you can't prove it was hardware failure
the reason they have their flight logs encrypted (in some way) is to not be able to fake them
and if all you have is some CSV file from Litchi, well, that's too bad

for some people that would be very easy-made money
I'd take one day vacation and create the CSV file just out of the blue (or use some other users' CSVs)
then I complain to DJI that my Phantom fell into the lake (or river or sea) because of some failure and I give them the CSV file
and they give me new Phantom

only in our dreams

if you, Guardmy6, were them, how would you tell if user is telling the true or he's just fooling you?
it's impossible to tell it if all you have is CSV file and no actual flight log (TXT or DAT)

I don't know how all that works. I just know that my flight logs upload to healthy drones. I can also tell you that I crashed a drone (my fault) about a year ago using DJI app. the flight log did not upload to my phone because it did not land. Yes it was on the drone, but in the current case the drone went to the bottom of the lake.

Surely I could not fabricate the logs on HD server. I did give DJI the link to view and take those logs, at their request. DJI chose to ask for that link but not use it.
 
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well, in this case I have to agree with DJI
reason is simple - you can't prove it was hardware failure
the reason they have their flight logs encrypted (in some way) is to not be able to fake them
and if all you have is some CSV file from Litchi, well, that's too bad

for some people that would be very easy-made money
I'd take one day vacation and create the CSV file just out of the blue (or use some other users' CSVs)
then I complain to DJI that my Phantom fell into the lake (or river or sea) because of some failure and I give them the CSV file
and they give me new Phantom

only in our dreams

if you, Guardmy6, were them, how would you tell if user is telling the true or he's just fooling you?
it's impossible to tell it if all you have is CSV file and no actual flight log (TXT or DAT)
If you agree with DJI, on what is known from the email response posted here, your position must be that use of a third party app viods warranty. For what its worth that doesnt seem to be the case, at least not by all accounts. There are many members posting here and other posts i have read on the DJI forum where warranty wss homoured for uses flying with third party apps when they crashed.

From the posts i have read DJI has offered 50% discount on a new AC on numerous occasions where the AC was not recovered.
 
well, in this case I have to agree with DJI
reason is simple - you can't prove it was hardware failure

I'm guessing you don't understand DJI's position then. It has noting to do with why the Phantom was damaged. The email simply states if you are _using_ a 3rd party app, your warranty is not valid.
 
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I'm guessing you don't understand DJI's position then. It has noting to do with why the Phantom was damaged. The email simply states if you are _using_ a 3rd party app, your warranty is not valid.
I think I understand them very well. And as I wrote, the explanation is simple. Of course they can't warranty the flights made by 3rd party apps, because then they have no flight log from user that would confirm user's point of view. CSV file is not a flight log.
 
I think I understand them very well. And as I wrote, the explanation is simple. Of course they can't warranty the flights made by 3rd party apps, because then they have no flight log from user that would confirm user's point of view. CSV file is not a flight log.
If the AC was recovered the .dat file would be available and warrant would be enforceable it could be demonstrated DJI hardware or software issue.
 
I think I understand them very well. And as I wrote, the explanation is simple. Of course they can't warranty the flights made by 3rd party apps, because then they have no flight log from user that would confirm user's point of view. CSV file is not a flight log.

I'm a little hazy on this but when you send the P3 in you don't send in the display device, which is where the app saves it's log file. However, it seems to me that DJI still has access to some flight data. I was under the impression that the P3 itself stores it's own flight data within itself that only DJI can pull.

But setting that aside, it would not matter anyway. What you mentioned does not change anything. DJI has not only allowed people to use 3rd party apps but they are the ones who specifically created this ability. Again, they created this mechanism. So they could not then claim because of their own system they lack the ability to apply any exclusions. That can't knowingly _create_ the lack of information and then claim because the information is not available that they can't know if the warranty applies. I can't tell you the number of ways that does not legally work.

Setting aside all the flaws in that "logic"..... it still does not even get that far (as they do have log files and before that, they can't simply deny the warranty for an unrelated condition).

There are _3_ perfectly good reason's why DJI is incorrect as mentioned above. On top of that, 1 of those reason's contains multiple reason's. Now, if you want to set _all of that_ aside, we still have DJI employees stating using a 3rd party app does not void the warranty.
 
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FWIW... My first P3A was repaired under warranty despite it having NEVER been flown with GO. I only flew with Litchi. I experienced what I believe is a gimbal board failure only after two days of ownership. They didn't blink an eye when informed it was flown with Litchi.

Perhaps they have changed their tune since then?
 
I'm a little hazy on this but when you send the P3 in you don't send in the display device, which is where the app saves it's log file. However, it seems to me that DJI still has access to some flight data. I was under the impression that the P3 itself stores it's own flight data within itself that only DJI can pull.
But in this case the bird is lying on the bottom of a lake, so there is no flight log available.

FWIW... My first P3A was repaired under warranty despite it having NEVER been flown with GO. I only flew with Litchi. I experienced what I believe is a gimbal board failure only after two days of ownership. They didn't blink an eye when informed it was flown with Litchi.

Perhaps they have changed their tune since then?
this is not the same case
if you say that your P3A was repaired, I assume that the DAT flight log was available in the bird, so they could see it and they could come to decision that it was hardware failure
but here, no bird available = no DAT log available and because of Litchi, there is no TXT log available
 

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