Litchi/AutoPilot Apps void your warranty

[flyNfrank]

But in this case the bird is lying on the bottom of a lake, so there is no flight log available.


this is not the same case
if you say that your P3A was repaired, I assume that the DAT flight log was available in the bird, so they could see it and they could come to decision that it was hardware failure
but here, no bird available = no DAT log available and because of Litchi, there is no TXT log available

So when someone flies using the Litchi app, it disables the .txt file from being recorded?

 

[ferraript]

So when someone flies using the Litchi app, it disables the .txt file from being recorded?

of course
TXT flight log is created by DJI GO

 

[tcope]

But in this case the bird is lying on the bottom of a lake, so there is no flight log available.

In that case Litchi keeps the same flight logs on the display device as the DJI Pilot app.

DJI supplies an SDK to all app developers. So DJI has the ability to require the recording of the same data that their app does... and I'm under the impression that they do this. For example, DJI _asked_ the OP for the flight logs. According to the OP, DJI used that information to determine that a cell of a battery failed.

But, again, we don't even need to debate this. DJI issued a warranty to the OP which is a contract and governed by the Magnuson-Moss Act. A company cannot exclude coverage for something unrelated to the defect. This is why I brought up the oil filter/seatbelt scenario. DJI is not claiming that the 3rd party app caused the damage, they are claiming just because it was used the warranty is void.

I feel for DJI (not really) if a third party app does not keep the log that DJI wants to see. However, DJI _created_ this situation AND _allowed_ this to happen. So they can't use this as reason to give a blanket refusal of warranty. That is just stupid. DJI could simply not create an SDK and/or offer this exclusion in their warranty. Problem solved and it's fine.

*** Which is one reason why I recommended _everyone_ download and save the warranty on DJI's website at this time ***

Edit: Don't take me wrong.... you know more about the created files then I do. I don't deny that. But it's still that DJI created and allowed that to happen with no disclaimer or mention in their warranty.

 

[tcope]

Perhaps they have changed their tune since then?

Yes... that wasTuesday.

 

[Wolfiesden]

 

[ferraript]

In that case Litchi keeps the same flight logs on the display device as the DJI Pilot app

that's the point, IT DOES NOT
Litchi is just piece of software made by some developers
and even they have SDK from DJI, it's up to them what kind of output they create from flight
and they chose it to be CSV file, that's all

in that email communication DJI says exactly what I say
"Without being able to analyze the unit, or the flight logs at our repair facilities, we will not be able to determine cause of the behavior 100%, therefore we will not be able to apply the warranty to your product."

According to the OP, DJI used that information to determine that a cell of a battery failed

I didn't find in this topic that DJI had said that it had been problem with the battery
this is just what user says
so once again, I think that user can't prove that it was battery's ( = DJI's) fault so Magnuson-Moss Act is not applicable

 

[tcope]

that's the point, IT DOES NOT
Litchi is just piece of software made by some developers
and even they have SDK from DJI, it's up to them what kind of output they create from flight
and they chose it to be CSV file, that's all

in that email communication DJI says exactly what I say
"Without being able to analyze the unit, or the flight logs at our repair facilities, we will not be able to determine cause of the behavior 100%, therefore we will not be able to apply the warranty to your product."

Then it's up to DJI to simply exclude coverage in their warranty when a person uses a 3rd party app. DJI _knows_ people are using their product with the use of 3rd party apps... as _they created this ability_. I'd also argue that DJI could easily require certain logs to be saved and they chose not to do this. In any case, DJI was in 100% control of the situation. They not only allowed people to think their warranty would address use under 3rd party apps but they chose not to exclude this from their warranty.

As I've mentioned before, DJI's warranty fails on so many levels it's not even funny. DJI wrote their own warranty, if they choose not to include obvious exclusions (for conditions which _they_ created, then this is on them.

 

[With The Birds]

Then it's up to DJI to simply exclude coverage in their warranty when a person uses a 3rd party app. DJI _knows_ people are using their product with the use of 3rd party apps... as _they created this ability_. I'd also argue that DJI could easily require certain logs to be saved and they chose not to do this. In any case, DJI was in 100% control of the situation. They not only allowed people to think their warranty would address use under 3rd party apps but they chose not to exclude this from their warranty.

As I've mentioned before, DJI's warranty fails on so many levels it's not even funny. DJI wrote their own warranty, if they choose not to include obvious exclusions (for conditions which _they_ created, then this is on them.

Or they could adopt the approach they have in the extended coverage plans.

No coverage if the damaged AC cant be provided to them for assesment/opportunity to repair.

 

[Guardmy6]

But in this case the bird is lying on the bottom of a lake, so there is no flight log available.


this is not the same case
if you say that your P3A was repaired, I assume that the DAT flight log was available in the bird, so they could see it and they could come to decision that it was hardware failure
but here, no bird available = no DAT log available and because of Litchi, there is no TXT log available

I think you keep missing the point. DJI did NOT SAY the type of flight log I have is not a valid flight log. DJI said my warranty is invalid because I used a third party app. End of story. That means their position is in violation with US federal law.

 

[With The Birds]

The DJI email certainly suggest the position as third party app no warranty. Very concerning if that is the position going forward!!!

If they had said however without access to and the opportunity to assess the flight log from the subject flight or a log file produced by the DJI App then it might be arguable nobody can say with certainty if the crash might be attributed to DJI hardware of software failure.

We do know, or at least can reasonably speculate, the battery was in less than optimum. The condition being reported as 91% health and several low voltage cell (out of balance) events being recorded throughout the flight.

My take from what is known is it is most likley the low cell dropped below or close to critical voltage and the AC performed an auto land. The firmware you were running may come into play, there were battery state reporting issues in an earlier version and DJI may be inclined to come to the party if you could demonstrate you were flying in this version if firmware. Not sure how or if its even possible to do that without the AC however it might be that its logged by the GO app and you have a recent flight log from GO you might rely on.

Its statistically likely when i crash I will loose the AC as im more often than not flying over water or difficult to access terrain. I will be flying with GO over water for the conceivable future (if and until this issue is clafied around third party apps).

Im suprised litchi hasnt rolled up their sleeves to see what they can do to assist you.

 

[houldsworth1]

They don't support 3rd party batteries either. I say when it comes to warranty, don't use 3rd party equipment (and apps) and you have no worries.

If you don't use 3rd party apps then you are missing out on a LOT of functionality. The amount of things that Litchi/Autopilot can do for you is amazing, and can help you get shots that you could never get flying manually.

What mode was the switch in at the time of the crash? If this was in P mode then they don't have a leg to stand on. With the switch in that mode the Phantom is flown by the controller, not the software.

 

[Squirrel!]

If you don't use 3rd party apps then you are missing out on a LOT of functionality. The amount of things that Litchi/Autopilot can do for you is amazing, and can help you get shots that you could never get flying manually.

What mode was the switch in at the time of the crash? If this was in P mode then they don't have a leg to stand on. With the switch in that mode the Phantom is flown by the controller, not the software.

You missed my point. If one is concerned with the warranty, then do not use 3rd party apps.

I myself am not missing out on anything. See the last few items in my sig.

 

[Guardmy6]

In that case Litchi keeps the same flight logs on the display device as the DJI Pilot app.

DJI supplies an SDK to all app developers. So DJI has the ability to require the recording of the same data that their app does... and I'm under the impression that they do this. For example, DJI _asked_ the OP for the flight logs. According to the OP, DJI used that information to determine that a cell of a battery failed.

But, again, we don't even need to debate this. DJI issued a warranty to the OP which is a contract and governed by the Magnuson-Moss Act. A company cannot exclude coverage for something unrelated to the defect. This is why I brought up the oil filter/seatbelt scenario. DJI is not claiming that the 3rd party app caused the damage, they are claiming just because it was used the warranty is void.

I feel for DJI (not really) if a third party app does not keep the log that DJI wants to see. However, DJI _created_ this situation AND _allowed_ this to happen. So they can't use this as reason to give a blanket refusal of warranty. That is just stupid. DJI could simply not create an SDK and/or offer this exclusion in their warranty. Problem solved and it's fine.

*** Which is one reason why I recommended _everyone_ download and save the warranty on DJI's website at this time ***

Edit: Don't take me wrong.... you know more about the created files then I do. I don't deny that. But it's still that DJI created and allowed that to happen with no disclaimer or mention in their warranty.

Well said tcope..That is the very argument I plan to use in small claims court. I have so many vaild ways to argue this point really, but at the end of the day DJI probably will not show up for a $1000. claim and who knows how long they can sit on thier hands doing nothing. The good news is that DJI is quickly becoming a company that no longer has the superior aircraft. Others are catching up.

 

[hozzie]

I think we all need to use some clearer language when naming "logs". There are "aircraft logs" and "controller/app logs". They are not the same. When naming a log, explain which log. DJI isn't always clear about this either, but the aircraft log is what they use to validate any crash. Without the aircraft, they will almost never admit liability.

I had an issue on my P3P and crashed into a lake. Diver couldn't find it. I am sure it was a mechanical issue, but without the aircraft I couldn't prove it.

 

[Guardmy6]

The DJI email certainly suggest the position as third party app no warranty. Very concerning if that is the position going forward!!!

If they had said however without access to and the opportunity to assess the flight log from the subject flight or a log file produced by the DJI App then it might be arguable nobody can say with certainty if the crash might be attributed to DJI hardware of software failure.

We do know, or at least can reasonably speculate, the battery was in less than optimum. The condition being reported as 91% health and several low voltage cell (out of balance) events being recorded throughout the flight.

My take from what is known is it is most likley the low cell dropped below or close to critical voltage and the AC performed an auto land. The firmware you were running may come into play, there were battery state reporting issues in an earlier version and DJI may be inclined to come to the party if you could demonstrate you were flying in this version if firmware. Not sure how or if its even possible to do that without the AC however it might be that its logged by the GO app and you have a recent flight log from GO you might rely on.

Its statistically likely when i crash I will loose the AC as im more often than not flying over water or difficult to access terrain. I will be flying with GO over water for the conceivable future (if and until this issue is clafied around third party apps).

Im suprised litchi hasnt rolled up their sleeves to see what they can do to assist you.

I don't think Litchi cares to get involved. Which sucks...

 

[Squirrel!]

The good news is that DJI is quickly becoming a company that no longer has the superior aircraft. Others are catching up.

While I understand you have an ax to grind with DJI, they are still and will be the 'go to' company for this sort of thing. There are more companies out there, but DJI has the edge with brand recognition. That doesn't just evaporate because of a handful of bad experiences with customers, vs. the mass numbers of drones out in the field with quite satisfied owners, me being one of them.

 

[Squirrel!]

I don't think Litchi cares to get involved. Which sucks...

Why would they want to get involved in something that has no bearing on them one way or another? The issue isn't Litchi itself, it is 3rd party apps voiding the warranty that is the issue.

 

[Guardmy6]

I think we all need to use some clearer language when naming "logs". There are "aircraft logs" and "controller/app logs". They are not the same. When naming a log, explain which log. DJI isn't always clear about this either, but the aircraft log is what they use to validate any crash. Without the aircraft, they will almost never admit liability.

I had an issue on my P3P and crashed into a lake. Diver couldn't find it. I am sure it was a mechanical issue, but without the aircraft I couldn't prove it.

What app were you using at the time of the crash? I didn't realize there is a difference in the logs. But DJI does and they certainly need to be clear on that. This issue is costing me money in lost jobs and I would have prepared and charged differently if I had known DJI was not a reputable company.

 

[Guardmy6]

Why would they want to get involved in something that has no bearing on them one way or another? The issue isn't Litchi itself, it is 3rd party apps voiding the warranty that is the issue.

As the developers of a 3rd party app it can cost them lost business when and if enough people found out about this huge gray area.

 

[Squirrel!]

As the developers of a 3rd party app it can cost them lost business when and if enough people found out about this huge gray area.

LOL, no it won't, as much as you'd like for it to happen. The issue isn't Litchi...Had you crashed while using Ultimate Flight, the warranty would still be void.

I don't find it offensive nor concerning that DJI will not warranty a crash when it occurred while using a 3rd party app. Basically it is a 'fly at your own risk' sort of thing. Have you actually read all the releases you had to 'agree' to in order to begin using the app(s)/Phantom? Be honest, no you didn't. I didn't either and no one does because regardless of what it says, we figure we'll deal with it if needed. Guess what? It is needed. Go read Litchi terms of service and DJI terms of service. If you can prove you were within both, I'd say you have a helluva good case. But have just one thing in the, as you like to term, "grey area", and you haven't a pot to piss in. Likely don't have one anyway, but please, continue with the rants. It does a soul good to get it off your chest.