DJI Mandatory, uninterruptible actions are wrong, legally actionable

[dwallersv]

No that implies leaving the NFZ

You're feeding the trolls. @42FrankZ 's comment was nothing more than noise. Added nothing, did not inform, did not help, was basically an internet troll snark opportunity. Ignore things like this, and we're all better off.

 

[Drestin Black]

No that implies leaving the NFZ


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Sigh... no one reads anymore. NFZs are typically measured in miles, *possible* slips into the zone would be measured in feet. How many times does it need to be repeated: not trying to break NFZs, trying to fix what happens JUST at/outside them.


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[Drestin Black]

You're feeding the trolls. @42FrankZ 's comment was nothing more than noise. Added nothing, did not inform, did not help, was basically an internet troll snark opportunity. Ignore things like this, and we're all better off.

You are right. I've made my case and ... all I can say is, look for a change in this behavior in the not distant future.


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[42FrankZ]

No that implies leaving the NFZ

By walking? You would have to FLY out of the no FLY zone. Landing means you no longer are FLYing in a no FLY zone.

And an automated flight, following the prior path or direct, means you are still FLYing. And with no option to not FLY the automated route means you could be putting a manned aircraft at risk.

Get it? Stop flying in a no FLY zone unless there is pre approval.

 

[42FrankZ]

You're feeding the trolls. @42FrankZ 's comment was nothing more than noise. Added nothing, did not inform, did not help, was basically an internet troll snark opportunity. Ignore things like this, and we're all better off.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

[Drestin Black]

By walking? You would have to FLY out of the no FLY zone. Landing means you no longer are FLYing in a no FLY zone.

And an automated flight, following the prior path or direct, means you are still FLYing. And with no option to not FLY the automated route means you could be putting a manned aircraft at risk.

Get it? Stop flying in a no FLY zone unless there is pre approval.

And what about invisible non-existent erroneous NO fly ZONES? I guess we could transform into a truck and drive outta those.

Dude. You imagine that NFZs are these invisible but utterly impenetrable walls from the ground to the moon, and that real planes and helicopters and genuine RC craft, unlike our toys, currently just hit them and magically fall safely to the ground not one single inside them.

Know what happens today? A guy in his Cessna accidental strays into one, ooopps, by way less than a 1/4 mile, gets his attention back, turns his aircraft in a appropriate direction and resumes flying. You would propose that he just immediately turn into a helicopter and land wherever he is, no matter what's below him.

Your solution to, "What if I accidentally hit a NFZ?" is, "Just don't or else we will take over, mohahaha!"


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[42FrankZ]

And what about invisible non-existent erroneous NO fly ZONES? I guess we could transform into a truck and drive outta those.

Dude. You imagine that NFZs are these invisible but utterly impenetrable walls from the ground to the moon, and that real planes and helicopters and genuine RC craft, unlike our toys, currently just hit them and magically fall safely to the ground not one single inside them.

Know what happens today? A guy in his Cessna accidental strays into one, ooopps, by way less than a 1/4 mile, gets his attention back, turns his aircraft in a appropriate direction and resumes flying. You would propose that he just immediately turn into a helicopter and land wherever he is, no matter what's below him.

Your solution to, what if I accidentally hit a NFZ IS: just don't.


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I was under the impression that, as responsible pilots, we were are aware of where we are and what NFZs exist. Stay out of them and you don't have issues. Flying in atti and going into them and then switching to position is NOT an excuse for being in one. You are still supposed to be aware of where you are.

If your aircraft suddenly thinks it is in a NFZ that doesn't actually exist then why on earth would anyone think it a good idea to let it make decisions on how to get out of the NFZ? It is has already shown a fundamental error. It needs to land and have its head examined.

The guy in the Cessna has a lot more skin in the game when straying than you do standing on the ground. He strays into the wrong spot and is struck he dies. You get to whine about your drone being in pieces.

I will also thank you not to tell me what I think. I understand how NFZs work, I also understand that you need to be in control of how you got into the situation to start with.

People whine and moan about how someone flying in a tent, or hitting a space needle, or flying in a park that said no is going to ruin this for all of us. It will be the person that is in a NFZ that causes a death with a collision with a manned air craft that is going to bring down the heavy handed fist of .gov.

I have said it to start, stay out of the NFZs and it won't matter how DJI handles the situation. If you find yourself in an one that doesn't really exist then you need to let it do its thing then sort it out with DJI. If you can control where it lands that is great but it needs to be down since it isn't making the right choices to start with.

 

[N017RW]

A guy in his Cessna accidental strays into one, ooopps, by way less than a 1/4 mile, gets his attention back, turns his aircraft in a appropriate direction and resumes flying.

Do you speak from experience or first-hand knowledge?

Don't now about today but about 25yrs ago I strayed into an NFZ while on way to Daytona for a 500 race. Was being diverted around Cape Canaveral and due to a ground recognition error did not fly far enough West. Was instructed to contact a General so and so once landing at Daytona. Got an earful, provided all kinds of personal and flight details, had to provide a written report to FAA and surrender license for 30 days.

It was not so trivial then as you imagine. I doubt it's less so today.

IT'S SERIOUS STUFF.

 

[FASTFJR]

Good grief.......stop the whining. The bottom line is they (DJI) built a product, you don't like some of the things about said product. Move onto another product or build your own.

 

[Klaus_Klavier]

By walking? You would have to FLY out of the no FLY zone. Landing means you no longer are FLYing in a no FLY zone.

And an automated flight, following the prior path or direct, means you are still FLYing. And with no option to not FLY the automated route means you could be putting a manned aircraft at risk.

Get it? Stop flying in a no FLY zone unless there is pre approval.

You are misinterpreting what I'm saying.

When you get to the edge of a NFZ it should RTH. It shouldn't let you into the NFZ in the first place it should turn around and RTH at the border of it and if you are going fast the drone should calculate when it needs to stop to avoid going into the NFZ and stop at the border and come home

What is so difficult for people to understand. Flying at the border of a NFZ isn't flying IN a NFZ

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[N017RW]

Or just stop as one would experience at any 'fence'.

DJI has/had it's reason(s) for this and with all the energy some put forth in this effort has anyone written and received response from Brendan Schulman or his staff regarding this? It would seem to be a legal matter first (policy, liability, PR, etc.) and engineering matter secondly (implement what Legal say is best).

 

[42FrankZ]

You are misinterpreting what I'm saying.

When you get to the edge of a NFZ it should RTH. It shouldn't let you into the NFZ in the first place it should turn around and RTH at the border of it and if you are going fast the drone should calculate when it needs to stop to avoid going into the NFZ and stop at the border and come home

What is so difficult for people to understand. Flying at the border of a NFZ isn't flying IN a NFZ

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And you are misunderstand the general bit that this was all started because someone found themselves INSIDE a NFZ not just entering one.

If you are OUTSIDE the NFZ and try to fly into it the software should handle that but not letting you go that way.

If you are INSIDE one suddenly landing is the most direct path to not flying in an NFZ.

 

[Klaus_Klavier]

And you are misunderstand the general bit that this was all started because someone found themselves INSIDE a NFZ not just entering one.

If you are OUTSIDE the NFZ and try to fly into it the software should handle that but not letting you go that way.

If you are INSIDE one suddenly landing is the most direct path to not flying in an NFZ.

He flew into the first 3 feet of a NFZ that didn't really exist and really that's still the border of it anyways it should've up and turned around. At that point.


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[dwallersv]

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Did you just seize up and come down with tourette's or something?

 

[dwallersv]

Do you speak from experience or first-hand knowledge?

I do. I have a PPL.

My "troll" criticism was based on this direct knowledge. I've strayed into the edges of NFZs before, more times than I can count. It's no big deal, nor are you required to immediately point the nose of the aircraft down and dive into the ground ASAP to stop "flying in the NFZ".

This circumstance is covered in pilot training, the FAA FARs and case law deal quite reasonably with this situation, as the reasonable folk here expect -- you are allowed to turn and exit an NFZ without any issue if you mistakenly stray into the boundary.

Pilots plot courses all the time that parallel the edge of an NFZ to get from A to B. Depending on the NFZ, it may be the only way you can get where you're going in any reasonable way. The authorities understand that flying is not as precise as ground transportation, what with winds and all.

You, and @42FrankZ are adding nothing to discussion, and in fact are being very unhelpful. You don't know what you're talking about, but are throwing sand in the gears for others that are just trying to find out what risks they're actually facing so they can act responsibly.

Knock it off.

For everyone else, ignore the ignorance from these two. Here's what you need to know: Always preflight, and as part of that determine if there is an NFZ anywhere near where you plan to fly. Plan around it. When in flight, keep an eye on where you are relative to the NFZ, and if you stray, turn and leave the NFZ immediately (if the AC lets you, the point of this thread in the first place!).

If you do this, 99% likely nothing will happen. In the rare case that authorities would bother to try and chase you down, going over your planning, and what happened. will result in no further action with absolute 100% guarantee.

So, can we get back to discussion how DJI should implement the software in this thing to "do the right thing" with NFZs?

 

[dirkclod]

Guys lets stop being argumentative and think before we post anymore !

 

[42FrankZ]

Did you just seize up and come down with tourette's or something?

No. Your post calling me a troll met all your criteria for being useless.

If you have an issue send it to the mods, but calling people trolls because you either don't agree with their opinion or aren't understanding it is just rude.

To be clearer:

That was the POT calling the KETTLE BLACK.

 

[Scubamaniac]

To carry this line of thinking a little further...... the F.A.A. regulations for pilots of "regular" aircraft state in bold print "The pilot in command has the SOLE responsibility for the safety of the flight". This was emphasized during my pilot training. I used to get into debates with the air traffic controllers once in a while about who is in charge. They hated it when I cited this regulation!

My stance is that if drones are considered aircraft, then I assume all of the liability of the flight. If this is the case, then I should have complete control over the flight. I am no longer liable when the software takes away my control.

PIC is always in charge. Interesting audio here. Once a pilot declares an emergency, ATC MUST comply, period. Now, that doesn't mean the pilot won't get in trouble on the ground but flying the plane, he is in command always.

 

[CCrew]

Know what happens today? A guy in his Cessna accidental strays into one, ooopps, by way less than a 1/4 mile, gets his attention back, turns his aircraft in a appropriate direction and resumes flying.

Or in the case of the DC area, a F-22 scrambles out of Joint Base Andrews and intercepts. You have no idea what you're talking about. An incursion into a NFZ will get a licensed pilot reviewed or cited. You are expected to know of their existence and not intrude. At. All.

 

[JWH]

The reaction to flying into the NFZ will depend on the reason that the NFZ exists. If you fly into the NFZ over Disney World, the penalty maybe won't be as severe. If you fly into the NFZ at DC, you most likely will be arrested. I witnessed first hand what happens if you fly into the TFR that follows the president. I had already landed because I knew about the TFR times. Another pilot apparently didn't check the TFR's and took off into it. He was arrested.