The number one reason for Phantom crashes (a little surprising)

[msinger]

You need to descend at 100% while yawing at 100% while moving backwards at 100% while moving sideways at 100%. For 3 seconds.

It's certainly not a common stick combination. You don't need to hold it for 3 seconds though. Less than one second will kill the motors.

 

[Jussaguy]

While there have been a bunch of good examples (kind of like the Darwin awards for drones), let's be clear about the odds of doing a CSC mid air:

You need to descend at 100% while yawing at 100% while moving backwards at 100% while moving sideways at 100%. For 3 seconds.

If you're flying that aggressively, you've got the wrong drone. And maybe the wrong hobby. You will most certainly crash even without a CSC. These are flying machines that are subject to the laws of gravity and propulsion. They are not magic levitation machines.

3 seconds?

Want to see how fast their 3 seconds is? Go to 1:20. And again, I COULD NOT be more careful and I will probably never perform an accidental CSC but I don't want to have to worry about it. In fact, it's MORE likely in something like a Phantom or Inspire or some sort of aerial photography drone than a racing drone. Because in a 250, you are constantly moving forward but that's not the case with a Phantom. It is completely reasonable to be moving backwards while descending to get a specific shot. You would never do this with a racing drone. While you are descending and going backwards (a perfectly fine move to make if you want to) you shouldn't have to worry about accidentally drifting your sticks because you are looking at an output monitor to get the shot rather than the sticks to not accidentally kill your bird. It might just be a mind F but it is easily released.

Shoot, I'd rather have Yuneecs kill switch CSC with a launch button cover like someone made for it. It only exists because of regulations and anticipated regulations in various countries. It's too far.

Keep in mind, this isn't just in our heads. They listed it in their top 10 reasons for RMAs and they listed it at #1 (although we don't know if that means it's their #1 RMA or not).

Go to 1:20 to see your 3 seconds.

 

[Jussaguy]

It's certainly not a common stick combination. You don't need to hold it for 3 seconds though. Less than one second will kill the motors.

Part of the "how difficult it is" myth includes the 3 seconds for some reason. The actual amount is shown in the video above.

 

[msinger]

Part of the "how difficult it is" myth includes the 3 seconds for some reason.

Yep -- it happens pretty quickly.

 

[GoodnNuff]

I crashed my P1 by doing a CSC a couple of years back. I was still a fairly new pilot and was trying to maneuver a landing on my case which was sitting on a picnic table. I had just enough experience to be cocky, came in too fast, overshot and then tried to recover before I went into the picnic table. Don't know how I did it but I executed a CSC and dropped into the grass after catching a prop on the table's seat. Fortunately a broken prop was the only damage.

My first flight with a gimble and camera on my Blade 350 was my worst bonehead move...
The bind switch on a Spektrum radio is usually used as a "panic switch" if the RC has "SAFE technology" and pressing it will stablize your flight. I had downloaded someone else's flight program, not realizing that the bind button was programmed as a kill switch... I was about 150 feet up, hit the "panic button" to see how the quad would react, and watched as the quad, my new gimble, and CQ1 camera hit the ground, and several pieces bounced back up. Destroyed everything. I was able to replace the blade body, but had to replace the camera and gimble.
I try not to be so stupid nowadays.

 

[Jussaguy]

I crashed my P1 by doing a CSC a couple of years back. I was still a fairly new pilot and was trying to maneuver a landing on my case which was sitting on a picnic table. I had just enough experience to be cocky, came in too fast, overshot and then tried to recover before I went into the picnic table. Don't know how I did it but I executed a CSC and dropped into the grass after catching a prop on the table's seat. Fortunately a broken prop was the only damage.

My first flight with a gimble and camera on my Blade 350 was my worst bonehead move...
The bind switch on a Spektrum radio is usually used as a "panic switch" if the RC has "SAFE technology" and pressing it will stablize your flight. I had downloaded someone else's flight program, not realizing that the bind button was programmed as a kill switch... I was about 150 feet up, hit the "panic button" to see how the quad would react, and watched as the quad, my new gimble, and CQ1 camera hit the ground, and several pieces bounced back up. Destroyed everything. I was able to replace the blade body, but had to replace the camera and gimble.
I try not to be so stupid nowadays.

Sorry to keep responding to everything but I guess I'm very opinionated.

For sure, an accidental CSC would be pilot error by default. If a pilot has to do it for it to be bad, then its pilot error BUT as any pilot will tell you, it's about making it LESS likely to have pilot error (to the tune where now for better or worse a commercial airliner actually doesn't need a pilot as I'm sure most of you know). It can taxi to, and take off and land on the runway but without good pilots to know what to do WHEN something goes wrong (Sully), then you just have a mouth breather in a seat while the computer does the work which with all the autonomous flight desires, it's sort of a hybrid of that with the RC photographers as opposed to racers.

Piloting is actually more like flying a drone that you would think. It's the people that panic that don't do well. If you remain calm, figure out how to get out of whatever situation you are in, you can probably get out of it. If you are high enough, you might even be able to save a bird from an accidental CSC. I had a Syma toy drone for a month before I flew the Phantom because they fly similarly and I used to let that Syma get so high it would be out of range and fall to the ground and as soon as it was back in range, it would continue to fly correctly. Granted, it's a fraction of the weight. But go listen to Sully as he landed in the Hudson. You would have thought he was landing it on the largest runway in the world in the middle of nowhere. While that syma story and the remaining calm thought might seem random the only reason I was able to do that move with the Syma is because I was completely calm because if my Syma hit the ground either I'd completely lose a $50 item, I'd be able to fix it, or nothing would happen, all three of which I don't care so it makes it easy to relax and try things.

That said, once the pilot is in full control, we want there to be as little room for pilot error as possible and making the CSC a perfectly viable move (however strange) is strange to me. Add a button and then you have a move that would NEVER be made under any circumstance other than complete accident or desire to kill bird.

 

[ianwood]

I have lots of concerns when flying especially when it's an Inspire Pro or a $15,000 X8 but accidental CSC is not one of them.

 

[GoodnNuff]

I have lots of concerns when flying especially when it's an Inspire Pro or a $15,000 X8 but accidental CSC is not one of them.

Yeah, not a concern of mine either since doing it once. I just remain aware of where my sticks CAN'T/SHOULD'T ever go when I'm airborne. It is a very difficult move to make, but in a panic possible to do.

 

[Jussaguy]

I have lots of concerns when flying especially when it's an Inspire Pro or a $15,000 X8 but accidental CSC is not one of them.

That's wonderful. But it's the concern that is the problem. Just because you don't have the concern, should the people that do not matter?

I don't actually think I will ever do an accidental CSC but the concern is annoying as F.

You think an X8 is scary? Try flying around an $80,000 Red Epic Dragon with modifications that make it actually closer to $100,000 and the insurance companies that cover film shoots have been fighting tooth and nail to not cover costs that have anything to DO AT ALL with casualties caused by UASs. And if they know there is one on the shoot, they will charge plenty more and still fight you if something goes wrong, and believe me, it does.

Flying octos that are specifically made for a single shot with an almost 100k payload will put the fear of god in you. After that, flying around a little Phantom 3 with an X3 in it aint so scary, but that Inspire Pro you are talking about, YUMMY! What a bird!

 

[ianwood]

That's wonderful. But it's the concern that is the problem. Just because you don't have the concern, should the people that do not matter?

I don't actually think I will ever do an accidental CSC but the concern is annoying as F.

OK. Well put it this way, I don't know of any seasoned operators who have any concern with it.

 

[Jussaguy]

OK. Well put it this way, I don't know of any seasoned operators who have any concern with it.

I am a seasoned operator and it concerns me every single time I fly.

Again, I also have OCD. Literal, true and diagnosed OCD. Not like "As Good As It Gets" OCD, but I am overly concerned about things but I am also good at self actualizing and based on others concerns, I can tell I am not alone.

 

[Waylander]

While there have been a bunch of good examples (kind of like the Darwin awards for drones), let's be clear about the odds of doing a CSC mid air:

You need to descend at 100% while yawing at 100% while moving backwards at 100% while moving sideways at 100%. For 3 seconds.

If you're flying that aggressively, you've got the wrong drone. And maybe the wrong hobby. You will most certainly crash even without a CSC. These are flying machines that are subject to the laws of gravity and propulsion. They are not magic levitation machines.

Hi Ianwood
I hear what you are saying, however can you clarify one point for me, In rough terrain I often hand catch the drone when landing, and only using the throttle stick pulled down and to the left the motors stop, is this because the Phantom senses that it is not descending and therefore allows the motors to stop, or what...
Waylander

 

[msinger]

and only using the throttle stick pulled down and to the left the motors stop

Just straight down will also stop the motors.

is this because the Phantom senses that it is not descending and therefore allows the motors to stop

Yes. The motors will stop when the Phantom stops descending for about 3 seconds. This is different from a CSC though.

 

[Waylander]

Hi msinger

Sorry did you mean "The motors will stop 3 seconds after the Phantom has stopped descending", which is my experience, and once they stop they require a CSC input to start them again.
Waylander

 

[msinger]

Yes -- which means your Phantom has landed on the ground, you caught it in the air, it's sitting in a tree, etc. You can restart the motors just like you always do.

 

[Jeiel Shamblee]

Ooh boy, I found something tht reads bad: You said you used it to potentially save lives even.

Then later you said, "For me this means I will never use the CSC for any reason ever again..."

What if you were hurtling towards a mother with a baby carriage and the CSC command would save the day?!

I couldn't help myself. Sorry.

You're paraphrasing. But I do understand what you mean.
I said something more like I used it to avoid personal injury and property damage. Not to save lives. Anyhow my view of the CSC has changed after dealing with DJI. I won't use it again until my warranty expires because it is automatically voids the warranty. I had my P3P for 2.5 months. Then it took 6 weeks to finally resolve the case. To DJI'S credit, they sent me a refurbished unit and replaced my battery. But, it took a lot of effort on my part to get that resolution when it should have been a simple matter.