The number one reason for Phantom crashes (a little surprising)

For example, those same stick movements but also having to press either one of the assignable bottom buttons. C1 and/or C2.
Can't do that with the Standard...no C1 or C2 button.....LOL
 
Can't do that with the Standard...no C1 or C2 button.....LOL
Someone brought that up and I understand but was just showing a move that's just as easy to do but with an extra level of complexity to remove an accident. There are other assignable buttons that can mean something else in conjunction with the stick combination, don't you think? I would think so.
 
DJI support is mostly clueless. As are the people writing their technical documentation. Especially when it comes to the compass. I would be careful with anything they come up with.

Their top 10 list needs work. It lacks all the equipment failures. A real top 10 would look like this (from very common to very uncommon):

1. Running out of talent - CFIT - flying beyond your capabilities (user error).
2. RTH collision - Losing radio line of sight behind an object (user error).
3. Compass / GPS conflict - bad calibration and/or charged area causing loss of control (user error).
4. Battery exhaustion - flying beyond the limits of the battery (user error).
5. Battery failure - Sudden battery death or voltage drop (equipment failure).
6. ESC failure - Loss of an ESC (equipment failure).
7. Prop loss - A propellor unwinds itself mid-flight (equipment failure).
8. Bird strike - Attack birds take your bird out (bad luck).
9. Midflight CSC - user accidentally initiates a CSC (user error).
10. Yosemite Sam neighbor shoots your drone out of the sky (bad luck).
 
There are so many good replies and helpful info in this discussion, thanks to all......

I have a unique situation, I lost my left arm in a motorcar accident. I therefore fly with one hand and it takes a little more exercise and effort. My son flies an Inspire professionally and I am always amazed at how well he controls the Inspire, wonderful to see the bird flying by somebody that are good at it.

Back to myself, I seldom take chances and I try to plan ahead when doing specific shoots.

The times that I did crashed or bumped my drone into something, it almost always happened when I did not fully concentrate, took a chance or flown to fast before stopping or breaking.

First time I tried atti mode I also crashed because I did not realize the drone will not stop as normal....well a tree stopped me....

Something I did not see discussed is parallax errors. My first serious crash was flying into a tree because I misjudge my distance away from the tree. The drone were 100m up and 120 meters away from me, judging the distance between the drone and obstacles are just impossible at this distance. Today I prevent this by doing careful planning. I would even use topo maps on my phone to quickly plan a save hight and distance...... Practicing FPV feedback also helps

Final story..... I bought a crashed camera while back. The Yaw arm was broken. I bought the spare yaw arm plus spare ribbon and completely repaired the camera one handed....:))
 
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I had a crash last week, p3s hit the top of a tall tree came crashing down and when I picked it up the motors were running at full speed and all the csc's I tried had no effect. Eventually after 2 or 3 minutes they stopped of their accord, if they hadn't Im not sure what I would have done except stand there for 15 minutes + until the battery ran out.
Maybe there should be a kill switch?
 
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I had a crash last week, p3s hit the top of a tall tree came crashing down and when I picked it up the motors were running at full speed and all the csc's I tried had no effect. Eventually after 2 or 3 minutes they stopped of their accord, if they hadn't Im not sure what I would have done except stand there for 15 minutes + until the battery ran out.
Maybe there should be a kill switch?
Strange. That's one of the reasons CSC is there for and it didn't work when you needed it? Also, the board is supposed to know when they are not in the sky based on their movement and shut off on their own. Double fail at least.
 
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After the crash I checked everything over recalibrated got the gps and gingerly took off to about 1m let it hover for a while moved it around and landed. (camera totalled however) Can a gopro bracket be fitted to a p2 vision plus
 
I am receiving a 2nd hand Panasonic today. This I plan to fit to the landing gear. I am interested to see how the lens IS will do in-flight.....
 
Feel like RTH crash is 1/2 and 1/2. Its a good feature for sure, but it seems like in practice its more likely to cause harm
 
FREE CSC Safety.

I am only worried about this when I let someone fly my Phantom. I make it a point to try to tell people about CSC but sometimes I forget. Now I don't worry.
 
We did have a spotless flight record for a few months; however, as my stick skill & confidence increased…so, too, did the risk of a CSC drop. PhantomHelp.com has a CSC Safety device (CSC Safety - Phantom Help) for $3. This is the least expensive insurance policy for a CSC drop and I won't fly without it.
 
I have some insight into this because I recently experienced a crash. While the cause of my crash was not the CSC, I used it at the end of the flight for legitimate reasons. My phantom 3 professional lost attitude control and entered a descending spin. I had no control over it and it was heading toward an area where I might not have been able to recover it and it could have easily injured someone or struck someone's property like a car or building. The use of the command was practically instinctive. I have a lot of experience in operating RC aircraft and was aware of the CSC before I ever operated a phantom. That was the first time in 20 years I have used it and have never done it by mistake.
That being said, when DJI received my unit and evaluated the flight logs, they sent me an invoice with the comment "Non warranty per flight log . Pilot error shutting down motors while in flight." Needless to say that upset me, but not because of the warranty issue. I was concerned that they hadn't found the cause of the initial malfunction and had probably decided that the CSC caused it. For me this means that I will NEVER use the CSC for any reason again (other than to arm the motors) as it would most likely lead to a default diagnosis of pilot error by DJI. I can only assume that if the command is in your log files, they will automatically decide it was pilot error and not evaluate the rest of the log for any other cause.
DJI did cover my repair under warranty after I disputed my case, but I am not convinced that the unit was ever re-evaluated. When I received it back, among other issues, its flight characteristics were not that of a repaired unit. It was shaky and couldn't reasonably maintain its relative position in GPS mode. I had to send it back again.
All of this because I used the CSC appropriately to avoid personal and property damage. To be fair, DJI is communicating with me and seem to be doing what they can to resolve my issues. But, they have never told me any determined cause of my crash and have said very, very little that wasn't a "canned" response.
If you understand my story, then maybe you can understand why I now feel that the CSC is useless and will never use it again. It has caused me too much grief and I believe it greatly hindered the repair and evaluation of my unit.
 
We did have a spotless flight record for a few months; however, as my stick skill & confidence increased…so, too, did the risk of a CSC drop. PhantomHelp.com has a CSC Safety device (CSC Safety - Phantom Help) for $3. This is the least expensive insurance policy for a CSC drop and I won't fly without it.

Least expensive??? He's giving them away, but I donated something for mine. Well worth it!
 
Silly me, I always thought the #1 reason for crashes was gravity ............ duh ! :smilingimp:

(Good post & great comments)
 
This is from DJI themselves.

Quite awesomely one of the techs at DJI listed the top ten reasons for their currently thousands of RMAS a month and guess what the #1 reason for RMAS is? It's not "fly aways", crashes, or anything else you might guess unless you guessed unintentional CSC motor kills.

I understand that the 2 seconds to kill the motors by putting the sticks on either of the lower corners sounds like a strange move to do but if you happen to be flying your Phantom with some fpv like moves or you are used to flying racing drones, it's not such a crazy move.

Or let's say you're descending and you happen to accidentally move the stick a little left or right and you at the same time start strafing left or right, it would not be too difficult to do the same on that side. Well in a couple nano seconds, your motors off bird is making a bee line to the ground.

Tip: it is possible to restart your motors during free fall but unless you are above 250 meters and do it right away, no chance of saving and even if you manage it, you need some luck based on how it's flying. The move is restart motor and IMEEDIATELY ascend up (no thottle forward). Test it in the sim.

I totally understand the need for a CSC fail safe should your bird go rogue and is heading towards a ton of people but if it's the number one RMA, it's obviously too easy to accidentally do. I do fly fpvs so my OCD has me constantly thinking to not accidently CSC and I never have but could totally understand if someone accidentally did and since it's by DJIs own admission the number one reason for RMAs, the solution to cut back on their RMAS is to fix this.

Real simple. Add one level of complexity to force a crash.

For example, those same stick movements but also having to press either one of the assignable bottom buttons. C1 and/or C2.

Proof is in the pudding. It's their main reason for crashing so they are probably putting more people at accidental risk then they are saving by having such an easy CSC. Never mind that they will seriously cut down on RMAs freeing up more time got R&D :)

Do you guys agree?
Having never done a CSC in air I obviously havent tried to: Descend while in full yaw, backing up, and in full strafe. It really ISNT that easy to do a CSC.

For those who have done a CSC in flight, do you also turn on your blinker, and window wipers while slamming on the brakes at full lock going in reverse? Exactly...

If they say thats the number one reason for RMA return I completely agree it is, because most people wont know thats what happened, but I dont think thats the number one reason for crashing. 80+% of the crashes we get in the shop are pilot error like: I hit a tree, I hit a building, I pushed the wrong stick, I wasnt looking at the drone I was looking at the screen, etc etc. All those people KNOW its their fault for the crash and dont bother with an RMA because they know its not going to be covered under warranty. So your #1 reason for a crash I think is invalid, it may be the number one reason that people request an RMA number, and the #1 reason people try to get warranty service.
 
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I think most pilots who accidentally invoke a CSC in flight are accustomed to flying racing drones. Extreme flying would require some unorthodox stick combinations...any racers here to confirm this?
 
Having never done a CSC in air I obviously havent tried to: Descend while in full yaw, backing up, and in full strafe. It really ISNT that easy to do a CSC.

For those who have done a CSC in flight, do you also turn on your blinker, and window wipers while slamming on the brakes at full lock going in reverse? Exactly...

If they say thats the number one reason for RMA return I completely agree it is, because most people wont know thats what happened, but I dont think thats the number one reason for crashing. 80+% of the crashes we get in the shop are pilot error like: I hit a tree, I hit a building, I pushed the wrong stick, I wasnt looking at the drone I was looking at the screen, etc etc. All those people KNOW its their fault for the crash and dont bother with an RMA because they know its not going to be covered under warranty. So your #1 reason for a crash I think is invalid, it may be the number one reason that people request an RMA number, and the #1 reason people try to get warranty service.
Fantastic post!
 
I think the CSC in the mid-air (Combination Stick Command) should be fixed. It should have a fail safe button that needs to be pressed on the screen to initiate. Being able to have your aircraft drop out of the sky is never a good idea IMHO.
I think the CSC command is about the dumbest thing DJI has done. I don't care how rare it is... You can't tell me that this cant at least be modified. I know I know.. read the manual.. I know I know an unusual combination that would never happen in normal flight.. I know I know.. NEWB's bla blah blah... As smart as this quad is.. As sophisticated as the flight system is... Are you telling me that they can't come up with a better system.. How about these additions:

1) CSC will not engage more than 10 feet above the launch point. As soon as you ascend over 10 feet.. Sorry.. You can't kill your bird and make it drop out of the sky on purpose.
or
2) You can choose 1 of the 2 current CSC commands as an option or keep both. (your option)
or
3) CSC will not engage when the UAV is moving more than X velocity

And I'm a dimwit.. I'm certain that the guys who develop the Phantom can come up with even better ideas..
 
I think the CSC command is about the dumbest thing DJI has done. I don't care how rare it is... You can't tell me that this cant at least be modified. I know I know.. read the manual.. I know I know an unusual combination that would never happen in normal flight.. I know I know.. NEWB's bla blah blah... As smart as this quad is.. As sophisticated as the flight system is... Are you telling me that they can't come up with a better system.. How about these additions:

1) CSC will not engage more than 10 feet above the launch point. As soon as you ascend over 10 feet.. Sorry.. You can't kill your bird and make it drop out of the sky on purpose.
or
2) You can choose 1 of the 2 current CSC commands as an option or keep both. (your option)
or
3) CSC will not engage when the UAV is moving more than X velocity

And I'm a dimwit.. I'm certain that the guys who develop the Phantom can come up with even better ideas..
Contrary to what some people will tell you around here the CSC is mostly for dumping the bird in flight when you are out of control of it and you need it to dump either in a body of water or when it is approaching a school yard out of control and you need to kill it above a bunch of trees instead a bunch of children.

IT IS NOT just to kill the engines after a bad landing or something. In fact, its SUPPOSED to sense that that is happening and kill the engines on their own so there needs to be a way for a failsafe to kill the engines while in flight.

HOWEVER, and as I said in the OP of this thread is that it needs to be more difficult. It's not as difficult, or as stupid, as everyone says it is. Anyone that flies 250s and the like for racing are used to being loosy goosy with their controls.

If you happen to be doing a steady shot and you are looking at the bird, or the output monitor or your remote (with tab/phone) you might lose track of the sticks while you are doing a perfectly acceptable move of descending while pulling backwards. If you did this move, everything would be fine if you don't happen to accidentally veer off to the left on one side or the right on the other just by chance. It's not the brightest thing ever but it's far from the dumbest. Also, it's in both directions making it even more likely. Add that to DJIs own admission that it's at least in their top 10 reasons for crashes (possibly #1) and all you have to do is add a button or something and you solve the problem.

This isn't coming from someone that has ever done, nor do I know if I have ever come close to doing it but what I do know is that I am constantly thinking about it when I am trying to fly and pull off the perfect shot. Sometimes, I'll even shoot it differently because I don't want to have to think about it.

Descending while pulling backwards IS NOT a crazy move and if you are used to flying loosy, doing that same move while banking is also not a crazy move and then you are practically in a CSC.

And if for some reason that you and only you know why you want to descend while rotating the bird, and go backward while strafing right or left, well TOO BAD, because that is a CSC. I can't imagine why one would want to do that but if I want to, I want to.
 
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