Pursuing a refund - Flyaway not found...

[Leon001]

I

And right here I think we might get some insight into the customer service culture at DJI.

Initial response starts out completely appropriate, but then devolves into snark. Directed at a DJI customer in a DJI-centric public forum. By someone who holds themselves out to be a representative of DJI. Awesome.

A little tip on customer service and/or service recovery...you may THINK a customer is being demanding and unreasonable, but you NEVER, EVER lash out in a public way. You gripe to your co-workers about it and put on your sunshine-and-rainbows face in public. If I were your manager, you'd be sitting across from me in my office undergoing a hardcore counseling session, at a minimum. You have, at least in my mind, driven home the (rightly or wrongly) presumed sentiment that DJI customer service is, shall we say, sorely lacking.

That being said, I can appreciate having someone knowledgable about the warranty process and tech specs of these quads being here to enlighten all of us Luddites, but it appears the OP may have had a legitimate failure, is asking legitimate questions, and a company rep cops an attitude? Whether the OP was out of line or not, I gotta tell you...a public attitude like this from a supposed DJI employee tells me all I need to know about where my dollars go for my next UAV purchase.

Whether he is right or wrong, and the evidence thus far certainly seems to suggest this was not operator error, I hope I'm not the only one that thinks you owe the OP an apology. Do your company a service and do it.

Back on topic, would switching to ATTI mode when behavior like this occurs possibly stop the quad, or would it likely continue flying with a mind of it's own? Just wondering if I might want to incorporate mode-switching into my crisis practice, just in case of emergency.

I know that all I wanted and asked for was an opinion about the flight log - and not even from a representative of DJI.

But I thought that because the DJI rep asked for my log within seconds of me creating the thread, his intention was to give his opinion or advice.

I didn't ask him to commit to anything, or even ask him to do anything at all. But when he asked for it, I admit I expected at least some response.

I just feel that if the log would have shown some error on my part then he would have been quick to point it out. Just how he was quick to ask for the log on a thread with an admittedly negative title (although I did express how wonderful I thought the product was baring the problem).

 

[III% Streve]

@Leon001 .. I don't think anyone is calling you out on anything here, except those that had no place to do so. This thread has very clearly gone in a direction that it shouldn't. That is in part my fault because I don't put up with BS! I don't care who it comes from!! Its good that others have seen that BS as well. I had originally thought that I might be able to help you find your P3.. even though its most likely damaged significantly. But in that it turned out to be a potentially good place for me to start analyzing failures like this and try to find a solution. In that I ran into some of the most pathetic confrontation I've ever had to deal with in a technical forum! Because of this, I've decided to just sit back and let the gods do their doing, and the "rep" keep digging his hole. I'm sorry I couldn't help you. I truly hope you get some positive resolution to this whole thing

 

[blade strike]

And right here I think we might get some insight into the customer service culture at DJI.

Initial response starts out completely appropriate, but then devolves into snark. Directed at a DJI customer in a DJI-centric public forum. By someone who holds themselves out to be a representative of DJI. Awesome.

A little tip on customer service and/or service recovery...you may THINK a customer is being demanding and unreasonable, but you NEVER, EVER lash out in a public way. You gripe to your co-workers about it and put on your sunshine-and-rainbows face in public. If I were your manager, you'd be sitting across from me in my office undergoing a hardcore counseling session, at a minimum. You have, at least in my mind, driven home the (rightly or wrongly) presumed sentiment that DJI customer service is, shall we say, sorely lacking.

That being said, I can appreciate having someone knowledgable about the warranty process and tech specs of these quads being here to enlighten all of us Luddites, but it appears the OP may have had a legitimate failure, is asking legitimate questions, and a company rep cops an attitude? Whether the OP was out of line or not, I gotta tell you...a public attitude like this from a supposed DJI employee tells me all I need to know about where my dollars go for my next UAV purchase.

Whether he is right or wrong, and the evidence thus far certainly seems to suggest this was not operator error, I hope I'm not the only one that thinks you owe the OP an apology. Do your company a service and do it.

Back on topic, would switching to ATTI mode when behavior like this occurs possibly stop the quad, or would it likely continue flying with a mind of it's own? Just wondering if I might want to incorporate mode-switching into my crisis practice, just in case of emergency.

No, it's called I'm not here to be someone punching bag.. I'm about two steps from leaving this site. This isn't one of my duties to be here. Pretty much here to help out. But since you guys would rather attack the messenger, I'm seriously thinking twice about my decision.

I had no input to give after looking at the logs, so I was attacked for not posting, really? Great community here!!! Now I get why 80-90% of threads are just people complaining. One really blew my mind yesterday, someone complained about the new firmware without even trying it. Because the release notes didn't state all the changes..???! We all would like better release notes but currently DJI HQ R&D thinks different.

You need to separate what I do from what DJI customer service is...I'm forum support and testing. I have personal opinions and this is a public forum. You guys expect my hobby to be 100% DJI? This is not how it works or what is required. I do this in my free time. My main Job is an IT manager for a City. You wont always get rainbow and butterflies from me if you attack me. But if you respect me and treat me like a human and not your personal punching bag you will get that in return. I have helped countless users since 2006, way before DJI. Even now I still run contest for free batteries that I pay from out of my own money. People that know me, respect that I tell it how it is. If you don't agree with those terms that is fine no need to reply to me or ask me a question. Like I have already explained I'm here because I want to be, not because I have to be.

I find it funny how some people think just because THEIR the customer they're allowed to be rude or treat anyone from that company poorly. This is what is wrong with the entitlement type attitude that is hurting this country.. But that's a completely different topic for another forum. I have tons of kudos from many respectful customers. I have learned over the years, you cannot or will not make everyone happy. So I'm sorry that you find my response unsatisfactory but I invite you to do some research on how much positive I have done.. I'm only human and only require to be treated like that. Not like someone's punching bag!

Wish you all the best!

 

[Leon001]

... But since you guys would rather attack the messenger, I'm seriously thinking twice about my decision.

I had no input to give after looking at the logs, so I was attacked for not posting, really? Great community here!!! Now I get why 80-90% of threads are just people complaining. One really blew my mind yesterday, someone complained about the new firmware without even trying it. Because the release notes didn't state all the changes..???! We all would like better release notes but currently DJI HQ R&D thinks different.

You need to separate what I do from what DJI customer service is...I'm forum support. I have personal opinions and this is a public forum. You guys expect my hobby to be 100% DJI? This is not how it works or what is required. I do this in my free time. My main Job is an IT manager for a City. You wont always get rainbow and butterflies from me if you attack me. But if you respect me and treat me like a human and not your personal punching bag you will get that in return. I have helped countless users since 2006, way before DJI. Even now I still run contest for free batteries that I pay from out of my own money. People that know me, respect that I tell it how it is. If you don't agree with those terms that is fine no need to reply to me or ask me a question. Like I have already explained I'm here because I want to be, not because I have to be.

I find it funny how some people think just because THEIR the customer they're allowed to be rude or treat anyone from that company poorly. This is what is wrong with the entitlement type attitude that is hurting this country.. But that's a completely different topic for another forum. I have tons of kudos from many respectful customers. I have learned over the years, you cannot or will not make everyone happy. So I'm sorry that you find my response unsatisfactory but I invite you to do some research on how much positive I have done.. I'm only human and only require to be treat like that. Not like someone's punching bag!

Wish you all the best!

I just assumed - because of the DJI support details in your message footer - that you we're here in a professional capacity. Obviously, if you have no financial stake in being here then nobody has any right to expect anything from you.

My issue and thought process was this:

Your initial message was made only seconds after I created the thread; it was quite "to the point" in asking for my logs; and after reading the complaints about DJI being quick to attribute flyaways to user error, I already had my guard up, and my first instinct was to think of you as an employee trying to disprove a critic of your employer/product.

You didn't show much concern (only the blunt request that I post my logs) but if you had shown concern I might have thought you cared and wanted to help - even if you never commented on the logs content at-all!

Following the above, the lack of any response just seemed like you had no evidence that the cause was user error and so you lost interest, or worse still, purposefully withheld telling me I might be in the right.

I know you've said that you are not here in a professional capacity. But I would have still appreciated you just saying... "I can't see, with the tools at my disposal, that you caused the fly-away. But you should wait for an official report from DJI. My tools/experience don't show me if you did X, Y or Z correctly".

I am new to the forum and haven't come across you or anyone else here before. So I'm not questioning anything but what has happened in this thread. Do you not see my POV as a customer dealing with a company with a rocky customer service history? I just didn't want to feel as though I had DJI against me, and this is how I now feel.

 

[blade strike]

I just assumed - because of the DJI support details in your message footer - that you we're here in a professional capacity. Obviously, if you have no financial stake in being here then nobody has any right to expect anything from you.

My issue and thought process was this:

Your initial message was made only seconds after I created the thread; it was quite "to the point" in asking for my logs; and after reading the complaints about DJI being quick to attribute flyaways to user error, I already had my guard up, and my first instinct was to think of you as an employee trying to disprove a critic of your employer/product.

You didn't show much concern (only the blunt request that I post my logs) but if you had shown concern I might have thought you cared and wanted to help - even if you never commented on the logs content at-all!

Following the above, the lack of any response just seemed like you had no evidence that the cause was user error and so you lost interest, or worse still, purposefully withheld telling me I might be in the right.

I know you've said that you are not here in a professional capacity. But I would have still appreciated you just saying... "I can't see, with the tools at my disposal, that you caused the fly-away. But you should wait for an official report from DJI. My tools/experience don't show me if you did X, Y or Z correctly".

I am new to the forum and haven't come across you or anyone else here before. So I'm not questioning anything but what has happened in this thread. Do you not see my POV as a customer dealing with a company with a rocky customer service history? I just didn't want to feel as though I had DJI against me, and this is how I now feel.

The support information in my signature points to what I can provide support for and the US support number. I don't visit this site daily, when I saw your post I requested the logs to look into them since I was online. Never once did I state I would be in contact. I didn't notice anything in the logs so I moved on. If there is no smoking gun, then I'm not going to speculate because that doesn't do anyone any good. Now if I saw a direct error or cause, I would have responded but still wouldn't been able to do much until you contacted DJI yourself. Sorry If this doesn't meet you standards but it is what it is.. If you knew me you would know I have helped a few other users get help when their craft has gone down. But they followed the proper protocol and had a ticket and case number for me to reference to. To suggest that I was just looking for user error is a personal attack on me and DJI.

With that being sad, you still have not followed proper protocol. You need to call support and file a claim, like I have already requested for you to do. Having your dealer do this is not the correct way and is actually delaying the outcome. Trust me this will not go anywhere.

Since you and a few other are new to the forum then I would suggest doing some research on users before calling them out and attacking them. Forums are a different way of providing support and some of you need to realize this. You will not get canned responses but you do get support from an actual user of the products. You will also get some inside information when we can share. We do this because we love the hobby and DJI. I was a user of their WKM back in 2011, way before I was even contacted to do this type of thing from them.. What you cant expect is for us to start the RMA or claim process. There are times we can help out once this process is started but like I said we need a case number to forward to the correct people. So I guess you can say that you need to help yourself before we can help you.

If you haven't followed proper protocol and feel that DJI is against you then you have already made your mind up. I truly hope that you take my advice and contact support. But I will warn you, you will have to have patience, more than you have shown here.

I wish you the best and hope you get a satisfactory outcome.

 

[Leon001]

The support information in my signature points to what I can provide support for and the US support number. I don't visit this site daily, when I saw your post I requested the logs to look into them since I was online. Never once did I state I would be in contact. I didn't notice anything in the logs so I moved on. If there is no smoking gun, then I'm not going to speculate because that doesn't do anyone any good. Now if I saw a direct error or cause, I would have responded but still wouldn't been able to do much until you contacted DJI yourself. Sorry If this doesn't meet you standards but it is what it is.. If you knew me you would know I have helped a few other users get help when their craft has gone down. But they followed the proper protocol and had a ticket and case number for me to reference to. To suggest that I was just looking for user error is a personal attack on me and DJI.

With that being sad, you still have not followed proper protocol. You need to call support and file a claim, like I have already requested for you to do. Having your dealer do this is not the correct way and is actually delaying the outcome. Trust me this will not go anywhere.

Since you and a few other are new to the forum then I would suggest doing some research on users before calling them out and attacking them. Forums are a different way of providing support and some of you need to realize this. You will not get canned responses but you do get support from an actual user of the products. You will also get some inside information when we can share. We do this because we love the hobby and DJI. I was a user of their WKM back in 2011, way before I was even contacted to do this type of thing from them.. What you cant expect is for us to start the RMA or claim process. There are times we can help out once this process is started but like I said we need a case number to forward to the correct people. So I guess you can say that you need to help yourself before we can help you.

If you haven't followed proper protocol and feel that DJI is against you then you have already made your mind up. I truly hope that you take my advice and contact support. But I will warn you, you will have to have patience, more than you have shown here.

I wish you the best and hope you get a satisfactory outcome.

I contacted my supplier who started the process with DJI within hours of the incident. Why is this not proper protocol?

I didn't tell you to, or expect you to, "start the RMA or claim process". I only observed these things:

1. I had what I honestly believe is an instance of a non-user error flyaway.
2. I was very worried about how I would be treated because of what I've read about DJI support.
3. I opened a thread and was asked for logs, very quickly, by a DJI representative.
4. Multiple users commented about how they couldn't see any indication of user error.
5. The DJI representative was online but didn't say a word.

It's as simple as that. I don't want to argue with you any more. I just wanted you to understand my position but you're so invested in your "role" that you're unwilling to understand why I'd be worried.

I can't imagine why any further conversation between us would be fruitful. A little bit of trying to stand in my shoes would have been all it took for us to get along.

 

[RiskFactor]

Yes, it's possible to recover from a flyaway type scenario by switching to ATTI. In fact, it's the only way sans running after your bird, jumping and grabbing a leg. Worst case, it doesn't work, but at least you attempted to recover.

That's very helpful, thanks bbfpv! Leon...did you try this at all when trying to recover?

 

[blade strike]

I contacted my supplier who started the process with DJI within hours of the incident. Why is this not proper protocol?

I didn't tell you to, or expect you to, "start the RMA or claim process". I only observed these things:

1. I had what I honestly believe is an instance of a non-user error flyaway.
2. I was very worried about how I would be treated because of what I've read about DJI support.
3. I opened a thread and was asked for logs, very quickly, by a DJI representative.
4. Multiple users commented about how they couldn't see any indication of user error.
5. The DJI representative was online but didn't say a word.

It's as simple as that. I don't want to argue with you any more. I just wanted you to understand my position but you're so invested in your "role" that you're unwilling to understand why I'd be worried.

I can't imagine why any further conversation between us would be fruitful. A little bit of trying to stand in my shoes would have been all it took for us to get along.

So for us to get a long I have see it from your point of view?! I agree we need to just stop here.

FYI, A dealer can not start the RMA or process for the end user.

 

[ianwood]

Guys, if you want some DJI presence on the forum, I suggest you try to be a little bit more friendly. Don't shoot the messenger.

As for switching to ATTI, without knowing what caused this it is not known if ATTI would help. That said, if something like this does happen, ATTI would be a worthwhile try.

Not all flyaways are the same. Many are user error. Some are not. Each one has to be looked at and diagnosed on its own. This one is not easy to figure out as it doesn't have any telltale indications of known causes.

 

[Leon001]

That's very helpful, thanks bbfpv! Leon...did you try this at all when trying to recover?

Sadly not. I just saw everything in order on my display, that the home point was set and RTH activated, and hoped it would turn. By the time I'd established that RTH wasn't happening the drone was too far from my naked view. Besides, it was over a road and people's homes and I wouldn't have wanted to risk crashing it by flying the craft in a way that I've read is much more difficult.

Remember how cautious I was being in my flights.

In retrospect it would have been worth a shot though. Because the drone could have realistically landed anywhere when it came to the terminus of it's flyaway - damaging anyone or anything.

The positive take-away is that, if I ever fly again, I'll know that a crash landing in an area that is closer is preferable to an unknown crash location due to loss of power.

 

[unclejas]

@blade strike,


I hope you don't leave the forum. I lurked for many months before registering. Your posts are always informative and down to earth. Thank you for contributions as they're quite valuable to me.

 

[Leon001]

So for us to get a long I have see it from your point of view?! I agree we need to just stop here.

FYI, A dealer can not start the RMA or process for the end user.

If I say: X is faulty
You say: Show me the proof
I say: Here it is
You say: (Absolutely nothing)

... do you not see how that makes you look?

You've explained how you're not paid to respond, don't have to, and didn't want to in this circumstance. Since you've explained, I've accepted that. I've apologised for thinking this was your job. All I've asked for since that point is that you understand how an employee (as I thought you were at the time) evading an issue would look to a customer.

 

[GadgetGuy]

@blade strike,


I hope you don't leave the forum. I lurked for many months before registering. Your posts are always informative and down to earth. Thank you for contributions as they're quite valuable to me.

+1!

 

[jasonb777]

Yeah I would have to say that I have acquired a great amount of useful knowledge from you ken(bladestrike) I would hate to see you go too friend. Having the representation that you have makes you a target with people and that comes with the territory(not saying this man is targeting you), but I know how you feel. I work for a family owned car audio shop here in jacksonville n.c. and everytime someone has a blown speaker that I have sold them they think I ripped them off, even though we swap out what ever bad product it is within one year for free. I have even had people blame me for having blown head light bulbs months after installing a cd player. Some people you just can't satisfy.

 

[Jason Weston]

Been reading this thread, hurts the brain somewhat i can tell you. Leon001 i don't think we are really going to work out what happened unless you recover the drone and pull the logs out from it. Question is what do DJI do about it? Do they say it's your fault tough luck or do they replace it. From experience with other vendors in the UAV space they tend to replace it unless it clearly shows user error (Which seems like the right thing to do). I hope they replace it for you to be honest, also i have seen posts on facebook forums of the exact SAME flyaway behaviour right down to the same flight pattern.

Some have said switching to ATTI mode stopped the phantom in it's track and were able to recover and bring the drone back manually. By default i believe the mode switch on the RC is disabled unless Multimode switch is on in the app. I have since switched this on but i leave it in P mode but just incase i see issues ATTI is just a flick of the switch away.

Just a general thought on flying after reading posts, manuals and watching numerous youtube video's, will be a bit OT so don't flame me for it and not directed at you Leon001 but perhaps some advice for beginners reading this thread. I don't use auto takeoff i use the RC it's quite simple to do, I don't use RTH as a means to bring a drone back either, i think that if you have control of the craft and there is no issues with connectivity then you should always manually control the craft using the RC, DJI supply a lot of info to you such as maps and direction should you lose video feed. Purchasing a smaller drone that you can practice on is a must i say as you get the feel of flying without all the help these modern drones supply. I have a Syma X5 ($50 AUD) and that has no VPS or GPS, it teaches you how to fly without all the bells a whistles and ATTI mode would feel normal in a recovery situation if needed.

 

[III% Streve]

What this all boils down to is the first what?? 5 posts?? And the signature line for Blade. If everyone here were to totally disregard everything they know simply because they have been here longer, and look at his signature line, what would you see? When THAT person asks for something and ignores the answer it puts a sour outlook on the company. PERIOD! Then other people DO try to help and get chastised and basically told we are too stupid to know what we are talking about which creates a sour outlook on the site. Put that together and its a pretty **** crappy experience for the new guy! There is a lot for everyone to learn out of this.For EVERYONE! The lessons need to start with those god complexes!

 

[Leon001]

What this all boils down to is the first what?? 5 posts?? And the signature line for Blade. If everyone here were to totally disregard everything they know simply because they have been here longer, and look at his signature line, what would you see? When THAT person asks for something and ignores the answer it puts a sour outlook on the company. PERIOD! Then other people DO try to help and get chastised and basically told we are too stupid to know what we are talking about which creates a sour outlook on the site. Put that together and its a pretty **** crappy experience for the new guy! There is a lot for everyone to learn out of this.For EVERYONE! The lessons need to start with those god complexes!

I'd like to add that this user, plus a few others, are all that have made me feel somewhat understood and with some hope of a resolution throughout this experience. It's good to know there are some people using the P3 that love it for what it is, but are not dismissive of my plight because they are willing to see and say that this might not be a typical user-error fly away.

Going back to your projected landing-zone III% Streve, how did you calculate it? A combination of the slight curve, the speed, and the remaining battery at the point where the log ended?

Is there anyone else out there who has calculated and verified their predictions in the past who would be kind enough to verify it? I might post fliers to all houses on the estate if we can have some level of confidence in this location.

Thanks again everyone.

 

[suck it up]

If I say: X is faulty
You say: Show me the proof
I say: Here it is
You say: (Absolutely nothing)

... do you not see how that makes you look?

You've explained how you're not paid to respond, don't have to, and didn't want to in this circumstance. Since you've explained, I've accepted that. I've apologised for thinking this was your job. All I've asked for since that point is that you understand how an employee (as I thought you were at the time) evading an issue would look to a customer.

Well Leon, you didn't do what Blade asked, you got rather pointed, copped an attitude and then blasted him.

Do it your way, ***** and moan, but you are so new I just see that you must be young and don't research anything.

Good luck, you screwed this one up with your posts and attitude.

We have some of the best reps. on these sites from DJI, but they don't make magic happen. This isn't a DJI site, this is an off shoot site.

They only come here on their own and try to help out and relay information.

You have become quite one sided in your tone.

You won't get too much help with that.

Read what he said and believe him. He isn't out to get you............................

 

[ianwood]

And we still don't know what happened here. Lot's of speculation. No proof.

 

[Leon001]

Well Leon, you didn't do what Blade asked, you got rather pointed, copped an attitude and then blasted him.

Do it your way, ***** and moan, but you are so new I just see that you must be young and don't research anything.

Good luck, you screwed this one up with your posts and attitude.

We have some of the best reps. on these sites from DJI, but they don't make magic happen. This isn't a DJI site, this is an off shoot site.

They only come here on their own and try to help out and relay information.

You have become quite one sided in your tone.

You won't get too much help with that.

Read what he said and believe him. He isn't out to get you............................

Any reasonable person is going to understand the point I was making. Let's leave it there.