Please Help Quad Destroyed

[flyNfrank]

When I said the words "of his own making" I wasn't saying you had blamed yourself for it. It was the fact that you had posted a pic of broken wire associated with the install. Maybe others posting after the pic bring up what the solder looked like, what the wire looked, what the coating on the wire looked like, gave you the impression you had done something wrong, and then thought "of his own making" was what it wasn't. Does that make sense? Regardless, I believe when I did post on the thread, I had actually said I didn't think you were the blame, or don't blame yourself, something along those lines? So.... I still don't think the wire itself came off until after the contact with the ground. I want to see you back on your feet as much as I do myself. I'll even offer to buy you a new quad while your deciding what to do just show you I am a decent person with much respect. Just say so and I'll make it happen. If not, let me know if there is any other way I can help to get you going.

-Frank

 

[flyNfrank]

So are you happy with Dji's actions? Will they be sending you the upgraded model?

Well, I haven't seen any actions just yet. I guess when I post a pic of a new quad from them then I'll have some sort of an opinion about the experience with them. So far I would to say that all is going well. I sent my 1st email close to a holiday and had a response coming from them 6 hours later. Not too bad, I'd say.

 

[DBS]

Just to be clear... I think that wire snapped due to the fact it is a shitty wire and stiff/thin wire like that has no business being used for ESC to motor connection... Vibration snapped it right at the edge of where it was pre-tinned at the factory... And that's what brought down my bird.

Thanks for the offers of help... Get that guy you talked to at DJI to read my thread and offer me one as well!! :twisted:

I'm in a different situation as you though... Bought my Phantom from one dealer... Bought my V3 upgrades from another...

And I'm heavily modified... So they will feel they are being robbed by warranting my claim...

And I'll feel like I'm being robbed because a factory swap doesn't come close to giving me back the beast I had last week...

 

[flyNfrank]

I agree the V3 motor wiring is a fluke. However, as bad as they are not the reason for numerous V3's dropping out of the sky. I feel confident the problem is in the firmware that controls the ESC's. I have data from 2 flight loggers that back up such claim. I'm working on pulling the data from the quad itself before I send it off. So then regardless of whatever gets told to those who have to experience what I did will know the facts. As for sending your quad out, I'll send you a PM.

 

[MapMaker53]

I didn't notice the last time I popped the hood, but can either of you tell me if the heftier v2 motor wires are also solid wire? If so, I'm going to want to do something to reduce wire vibration.

 

[tpallred]

Guys I spent time on the phone with DJI Tech Support, and the dealer in which I bought all 3 of the phantom Vision and Plus from. And both made the shocking statement that my call was the 1st they had heard of this V3 Issue!

This has to mean that the claims we're hearing about are not getting reported.

How long has the v3 been out? It's been two months now?

It's getting reported in this and RCgroups and DJI's forums. There was a post in RCgroups (couldn't find it again right now) saying a dealer had sent out 20 of the new units (can't remember now if it was the V3 or just the upgrade ESC/motors) but that 3 had been returned with the ESC/wiring problem. Whether or not that dealer reported the issue back up the chain (you'd think ordering replacement units at least would raise a flag) wasn't stated but the issue isn't unknown in the DJI dealer community. DJI corporate also knows about the problem based on the previously posted link to DJI forum where an electronics guy diagnosed the problem, proposed solutions, and is in communication with DJI corporate technical folks about possible fixes. Maybe the word just isn't widely circulated yet while they consider what, if anything, they will do.

 

[DBS]

I didn't notice the last time I popped the hood, but can either of you tell me if the heftier v2 motor wires are also solid wire? If so, I'm going to want to do something to reduce wire vibration.

V2 wires are proper stranded and flexible :ugeek:

 

[Mopar Bob]

I removed the upgraded motors for now until more information is out on the problems. But for those that want to continue using them, I would suggest putting shrink wrap on the thin wires to help reduce insulation burn and also cement the wires to the ESCs near where the solder joint is using electronic grade clear silicone. This may reduce the possibility of vibration fatigue.

 

[DBS]

I removed the upgraded motors for now until more information is out on the problems. But for those that want to continue using them, I would suggest putting shrink wrap on the thin wires to help reduce insulation burn and also cement the wires to the ESCs near where the solder joint is using electronic grade clear silicone. This may reduce the possibility of vibration fatigue.

Solid advice... I would also suggest to come at the solder pads from the other side so the wires are not floating over the MOSFETs... Run them right down the side edge of the ESC next to the body ... Make a 90 in the wire to solder to the pad ... Then lock it all down with silicone as Bob suggests or at least hot glue to keep the length of wire from vibrating.

 

[flyNfrank]

DJI corporate also knows about the problem based on the previously posted link to DJI forum where an electronics guy diagnosed the problem, proposed solutions, and is in communication with DJI corporate technical folks about possible fixes. Maybe the word just isn't widely circulated yet while they consider what, if anything, they will do.

I would really like to see that post or a the link to it. If you have it please share.

 

[mede8er]

http://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=view ... D1&lang=en

 

[justin00]

Frank 2 questions.. You said you think the problem is the ESC firmware, which I believe as well from reading those other threads..
When you get your v3 how do you know it will have the good firmware... I've been speaking to suppliers in Aus and USA and no one has heard of 2.1
Not saying you said 2.1 was the fix, but I am under the impression it is... but yeah even helipal who some one said sold ESC 2.1 I spoke to them and they said they don't. Maybe they do and they just don't know about it. But yeah what certaincy do you have that your new one will be all good ? I assume you asked them that question!

Second thing.. Did you actually speak to DJI in Hong Kong or where ever they are ? LIke the people at the HQ ?? Or was it DJI in USA or something to that affect ??
If you spoke to DJI at the HQ in HK (lol) how did you get in contact with them ? I've raised 4 support emails now over 2 weeks and they are yet to respond...

BTW did DJI say anything about you using the 2312 motors without the ESC that has 2.0 on the QR label like the little piece of paper that came with motors said to do, or are they not familiar with that ?? Not that it would of made a diff considering v2 owners with 2.0 on QR have same fate.. but still, surprised they don't mention it to try save a few $$

 

[Hughie]

I didn't notice the last time I popped the hood, but can either of you tell me if the heftier v2 motor wires are also solid wire? If so, I'm going to want to do something to reduce wire vibration.

V2 wires are proper stranded and flexible :ugeek:

OK if the old motors were multi stranded and coped better with vibration, then isnt a wire breaking off the ESC a candidate to explain all the "tilt of death" accidents which are being reported. I have a couple of new 2312s in front of me and they are single strand.

I have worked diagnosing faults in software/hardware/avionics for a long time and "normally" there is only one fundamental cause of failure causing a single set of symptoms at one time. Although we are talking about DJI here :lol:

Wires dropping off ESC boards due to vibration caused by motors due to not being tightened every few flights sounds a possible candidate. Worthy of one to eliminate at the very least.

 

[justin00]

Hughie, DBS issue seems to unique.. There seems to be 2 groups of people who have had failures.. Group 1 - failures are due to motor cable insulation melting and then shorting out.. Group 2 - Other people in Franks position where the issue is... unknown...but all cables are still connect and nothing has melted.

 

[richiewrt]

I think the issue has to be in the code somewhere. When my v3.0 (factory, not upgraded) did it's 90 degree flip and crash, I pulled it apart to dry it before I sent it back in. I unscrewed the esc's to allow for more airflow to dry it out, and I don't recall seeing any issues with the wires. Also, after drying and re-assembly all 4 motors spun up just fine. Then again we may be talking about different issues, but I don't think so.

 

[flyNfrank]

Frank 2 questions.. You said you think the problem is the ESC firmware, which I believe as well from reading those other threads..
When you get your v3 how do you know it will have the good firmware... I've been speaking to suppliers in Aus and USA and no one has heard of 2.1
Not saying you said 2.1 was the fix, but I am under the impression it is... but yeah even helipal who some one said sold ESC 2.1 I spoke to them and they said they don't. Maybe they do and they just don't know about it. But yeah what certaincy do you have that your new one will be all good ? I assume you asked them that question!

Second thing.. Did you actually speak to DJI in Hong Kong or where ever they are ? LIke the people at the HQ ?? Or was it DJI in USA or something to that affect ??
If you spoke to DJI at the HQ in HK (lol) how did you get in contact with them ? I've raised 4 support emails now over 2 weeks and they are yet to respond...

BTW did DJI say anything about you using the 2312 motors without the ESC that has 2.0 on the QR label like the little piece of paper that came with motors said to do, or are they not familiar with that ?? Not that it would of made a diff considering v2 owners with 2.0 on QR have same fate.. but still, surprised they don't mention it to try save a few $$

You said 2 questions, and then asked 6 or more. lol! I never get to the other sites to see how well the communication is shared between the members. But I have to think they are not as open as some are here on this forum. Open forums reap the rewards.

Yes the firmware has been my feeling all along. And I will share with why I have have felt that away. It seems that the vast majority of what drops from the sky does do by rolling to the right. Not all do, but it appears the majority do.

I spoke with the tech support here in the US where I'm located. I 1st sent a email around 8pm that was detailed on the crash of my quad with V3 upgrades. I had a response in 8hours around 4am. (I said 6hours somewhere else but my math was wrong) I'm guessing because what the subject of the email is why the response was when it was.

The tech's said nothing about what or why I was experiencing trouble with the quad. They only mentioned sympathy in the fact I lost the quad due to a crash and provided me with the details on the steps I needed to do to get the quad replaced.

 

[knowonecares]

Newbie, Upgrade or not? I have a PV2+ Version-2 with the Version-3 compass and controller installed, plus a foil wrap on the GPS ribbon. Should I install the new 2312 Motors and "V 2.0" ESCs ? I've also read somewhere that hot glue on the solder ends would help, any thoughts? Seems like I should wait until I break something before removing "good" parts.

 

[jasonb777]

Hi Flyinfrank, I just got my new v3.0 a couple of days ago and last night at my family owned car audio shop I decided to disassemble the top casing to look at the wire gauge and check out the components to see any solder imperfections or defects. What me and my technician found was that the new motors are single core copper instead of the multi-stranded copper on the previous version. The wire is not replaceable because the wire is the actual windings of the motor and to cut the winding to install larger gauge wire is pointless because you end up with more resistance at your solder point. The wire looks bigger than the wire I have seen for the v3.0 on previous versions on this forum. The complaint I have seen on here is that the wire from the brushless motor to the esc is to small causing the current draw to melt the shielding on the wires. My question to you is did you is if the wire is single strand or multi-strand and did you notice the wires being shorted together. Any help would be great, thanks

 

[Hughie]

Hughie, DBS issue seems to unique.. There seems to be 2 groups of people who have had failures.. Group 1 - failures are due to motor cable insulation melting and then shorting out.. Group 2 - Other people in Franks position where the issue is... unknown...but all cables are still connect and nothing has melted.

Thanks justin00. The above is succinctly written and clarifies things nicely.

A bit worrying though

 

[flyNfrank]

Hi Flyinfrank, I just got my new v3.0 a couple of days ago and last night at my family owned car audio shop I decided to disassemble the top casing to look at the wire gauge and check out the components to see any solder imperfections or defects. What me and my technician found was that the new motors are single core copper instead of the multi-stranded copper on the previous version. The wire is not replaceable because the wire is the actual windings of the motor and to cut the winding to install larger gauge wire is pointless because you end up with more resistance at your solder point. The wire looks bigger than the wire I have seen for the v3.0 on previous versions on this forum. The complaint I have seen on here is that the wire from the brushless motor to the esc is to small causing the current draw to melt the shielding on the wires. My question to you is did you is if the wire is single strand or multi-strand and did you notice the wires being shorted together. Any help would be great, thanks

I'm so glad you posted here, and that you have some common knowledge of what you're looking at as well as what you see. More importantly let me say to do yourself a huge favor and DO NOT fly your quad until things have been resolved. Surely there should be several things you can do with your quad while waiting. Such as investing into and installing a gps tracker. This is as important and wise to do as it is for you to not fly right now. 90-95% of all newbies fail to read the manual and learn the even the basics. They would prefer to post threads and ask something then to read the manual. Rather then flying, you can also read threads in this forum. There is some good stuff in here. Actually better then you'll find on any other forum on the net. I own my own website similar to this one, but yet I prefer to hang out here.

On my 2312 motor's red wire I have 2 strands. The others are single. I realize there has been plenty mentioned about the wires on the motors being thin and nothing like the motor setup that was replaced. Regardless, the wires on the motors are not causing the problem. But, I would stand beside anyone who would make the claim that because of the type and amount of insulation on the wires is allowing them to misfire between each other and into the ESC's. To test that theory, a person could strap a quad to the test bench and start it and run the throttle up some to simulate flying in the sky.They could then use a FLIR camera to capture irregular activity going on throughout the electrical system. Or, if they have a scope that is better suited then that could be an option as well. I think iphone 5's (maybe?) can be setup with a FLIR app and possibly used for this test? I'm not not though how well it reads, ect? It could be more of a novelty then a tool.

I captured some voltage data on one of the two flight loggers I use, and at the end of the data that I do have shows the voltage jumping all over the place. Most of what I mention above would display the same results. Btw, let me point out if the motor wire insulation has melted, it's due to something else has already broke down.

The sad thing is, this could have been resolved a long time ago. A done deal, and to the point that people me and several others would not have had to of gone through our quads being trashed out.