Needing expert advice

[Kirby Johnson]

Listen, buttercup, it doesn't much matter what we think. What matters is what the FAA regs say. And if you know what David Clarks are, you know that.

You're right, he could probably buy himself a drone and not get caught. If he does the fines only start at, what, $2,500?

But buying a $1,200 drone that he doesn't have the first clue how to fly, then learning to fly it, doesn't seem like a good use of time and money if he can pay somebody a couple hundred dollars to shoot the photos for him and be done with it.

I DO like Buttercup. It was not directed at you. There seems to be a lot of people who just love to help someone enforce rules of which sometimes they have limited knowledge. The FAA and drones seem to bring them out of the woodwork. I would be surprised if our undertaker would be as reckless as the neighbors 12 year old who just got a P4Pro for Christmas and is trying to fly over the neighbors pool. Just trying to keep things in perspective. Buttercup you say? I think I have been A-Salty'd.

 

[mdowney58]

Aside from one somewhat snipey post, I only saw many members trying to answer the OP'S question honestly.

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[AlecW]

Yeah, all the advice was pretty much on point. I don't necessarily agree with the laws but they are what they are. A farmer can't use a drone to check crops, a rancher can't count cattle etc. without a 107 license. Seems odd but....

 

[Richard R]

OP doesn't say if he got a quote or if he was just guessing about the $1500, but I'm willing to bet that if he would give us some idea where he's located, there is someone, with the proper paperwork, close to him on these forums who would take the pictures for him for a lot less. Heck, if he was within an hour's drive, I would do it. And I bet that after talking to him I would be able to get his videos for him for less than $500!

 

[RW-1]

Hey, i can admit when I got it wrong.

Get the 107 to cover yourself, or hire someone to do it. (Having spoken to both my area FSDO rep and a couple adjoining ones) but wish to point out two things:

1. It on occasion may come down to the specific FAA rep's perception and interpretation, you may be ok in the eyes of one rep, and not in the eyes of another, there are plenty of grey areas in other parts of flying besides what we're discussing here. (My second rep thought similar to me to begin with if a one time flight to get his own property)

2. There seems to be a lot of vicious debate at times over the rules here, and for those who come out of the woodwork to point out when an operation needs a 107 on occasion also seem to be the ones who defend flying beyond LOS, at night, and over clouds, where were the rules they wish to rely to beginners then?

 

[joet]

Hey, i can admit when I got it wrong.

Get the 107 to cover yourself, or hire someone to do it. (Having spoken to both my area FSDO rep and a couple adjoining ones) but wish to point out two things:

1. It on occasion may come down to the specific FAA rep's perception and interpretation, you may be ok in the eyes of one rep, and not in the eyes of another, there are plenty of grey areas in other parts of flying besides what we're discussing here. (My second rep thought similar to me to begin with if a one time flight to get his own property)

2. There seems to be a lot of vicious debate at times over the rules here, and for those who come out of the woodwork to point out when an operation needs a 107 on occasion also seem to be the ones who defend flying beyond LOS, at night, and over clouds, where were the rules they wish to rely to beginners then?

I'm sorry, but I don't see how this could come down to interpretation in any event. The OP runs a cemetery and wants to get aerial images of said cemetery to use in the business. That's not even equatable to the gray line (which isn't really, but is often cited as such) of taking a pic of the neighbor's roof for free.

The FAA is pretty clear: It is either for your recreation or it requires a 107. They even produced a document that discusses their interpretation of the rule, and it goes into detail saying that anything furthering your business is not hobbyist flight.

For the record, NLOS is not allowed under either Part (absent a 107 waiver), but night flying is NOT prohibited under 101 or the AMA safety code. Clouds are not mentioned either, but would presumably affect LOS.

 

[Richard R]

I'm sorry, but I don't see how this could come down to interpretation in any event. The OP runs a cemetery and wants to get aerial images of said cemetery to use in the business. That's not even equatable to the gray line (which isn't really, but is often cited as such) of taking a pic of the neighbor's roof for free.

The FAA is pretty clear: It is either for your recreation or it requires a 107. They even produced a document that discusses their interpretation of the rule, and it goes into detail saying that anything furthering your business is not hobbyist flight.

For the record, NLOS is not allowed under either Part (absent a 107 waiver), but night flying is NOT prohibited under 101 or the AMA safety code. Clouds are not mentioned either, but would presumably affect LOS.

In fact, Paragraph 5.1 of the Part 107 advisory circular states not less than 500 ft below clouds and not less than 2000 ft horizontally from a cloud.

 

[BigAl07]

For a one-off video I'd say hire it out. It's going to take some work to learn to fly, get the video like you want, get the proper "credentials" because this is for a business and get a quality product. $1500 might be a good deal actually .

 

[Sagebrush]

Ben:

Aren't forums a great place to get your blood pumping?

To make this legal–even thought the video isn't being sold–you would have to have it flown by someone with a commercial license. I had my private pilot's license years ago and it still took me three weeks of four-hours a day to pass my Part 107 exam so I could fly my drone commercially. (The test is mainly about airspace and FAA rules, not about how to fly a drone.) There's a tremendous amount of knowledge needed to pass the beast.

I would think you could get a local licensed operator to shoot your desired footage for under $200. (I'm doing a shoot next week and it's a $100 and about two hours of my time.)

If you add your study time, the $150 exam fee, the cost of a drone, the time it takes to become proficient in what you're want to do it makes zero business sense. Go find a commercial operator and have him shoot the footage for you.

If I lived near you–and I don't–I'd come shoot it for free just because of the aggravation you've gotten here.

SB

 

[BigAl07]

I DO like Buttercup. It was not directed at you. There seems to be a lot of people who just love to help someone enforce rules of which sometimes they have limited knowledge. The FAA and drones seem to bring them out of the woodwork. I would be surprised if our undertaker would be as reckless as the neighbors 12 year old who just got a P4Pro for Christmas and is trying to fly over the neighbors pool. Just trying to keep things in perspective. Buttercup you say? I think I have been A-Salty'd.

For the record it doesn't matter what the neighbor kid does... if the product benefits a business/company in ANY way it's commercial and the Part 107 is required. Perspective is not the case but Codified FAA Regulations are.


Let's take this whole thread down about 2 notches and everyone take a couple of deep breaths before posting anymore verbal garbage at each other.

 

[joet]

In fact, Paragraph 5.1 of the Part 107 advisory circular states not less than 500 ft below clouds and not less than 2000 ft horizontally from a cloud.

I stand corrected - that is indeed in Part 107.

 

[Benbo5]

Don't get discouraged listening to these blowhards here. This place is crawling with people who bought themselves a remote toy and now think they are piloting the space shuttle

If you see anyone who is wearing David Clarks in their avatar they probably are worth listening to. Same with the fellows who have a tail number.

Look at the big picture. Over your property with your flying camera for your own personal use. You are allowed at least 400 feet, but in your case it will be more like under 200. Nobody in his right mind is going to bother you. Listening to some of these, you would do better with a helum balloon, some string and an instamatic.

Yes I will be outside with my drone over my property for recreational use, to relax and enjoy the fresh air. Thank you sir

 

[Benbo5]

Problem as he freely admits is that the proposed pictures are not for 'personal use', he wants to use them to promote his cemetery business. Strictly commercial and requires Part 107 and a registered aircraft. Part 107 here with the tail number on my bird "N1639Z". Went through the process, studied the regs and along with the others here who have made the same types of comments, know how the system is set up. The OP can do what he wants, but the FAA is serious about this and fine can be horrendous.

Richard I've changed my mind, since I'm getting XXXX from all you professional pilots which I'm guessing, by the sound of it, have pilot licenses. I'm not showing anybody, I'm just going out to take video of my property ONLY for personal reference and enjoy the video in a recreational way. No harm doing that, RIGHT?

 

[Benbo5]

Listen, buttercup, it doesn't much matter what we think. What matters is what the FAA regs say. And if you know what David Clarks are, you know that.

You're right, he could probably buy himself a drone and not get caught. If he does the fines only start at, what, $2,500?

But buying a $1,200 drone that he doesn't have the first clue how to fly, then learning to fly it, doesn't seem like a good use of time and money if he can pay somebody a couple hundred dollars to shoot the photos for him and be done with it.

Sir a drone is $499, cheap as XXXX, and I think I get a $20 gift card

 

[Benbo5]

Ben:

Aren't forums a great place to get your blood pumping?

To make this legal–even thought the video isn't being sold–you would have to have it flown by someone with a commercial license. I had my private pilot's license years ago and it still took me three weeks of four-hours a day to pass my Part 107 exam so I could fly my drone commercially. (The test is mainly about airspace and FAA rules, not about how to fly a drone.) There's a tremendous amount of knowledge needed to pass the beast.

I would think you could get a local licensed operator to shoot your desired footage for under $200. (I'm doing a shoot next week and it's a $100 and about two hours of my time.)

If you add your study time, the $150 exam fee, the cost of a drone, the time it takes to become proficient in what you're want to do it makes zero business sense. Go find a commercial operator and have him shoot the footage for you.

If I lived near you–and I don't–I'd come shoot it for free just because of the aggravation you've gotten here.

SB

No I'm just going to go out like everyone else does and take footage of the landscape for my personal and recreational use, thanks for the reply

 

[Benbo5]

I DO like Buttercup. It was not directed at you. There seems to be a lot of people who just love to help someone enforce rules of which sometimes they have limited knowledge. The FAA and drones seem to bring them out of the woodwork. I would be surprised if our undertaker would be as reckless as the neighbors 12 year old who just got a P4Pro for Christmas and is trying to fly over the neighbors pool. Just trying to keep things in perspective. Buttercup you say? I think I have been A-Salty'd.

I tell ya Kirby, I joined this **** forum just for a little advice, and I get ramrodded by I guess all these expert drone pilots. I wouldn't have joined this forum if I was expecting all this. Never had the welcoming like this on any other forum. Jesus and even Jesus wouldn't have a **** drone if he had to put up with all this ****

 

[AlecW]

The OP sounds a bit upset that he can't do what he wants to legally

 

[joet]

I tell ya Kirby, I joined this **** forum just for a little advice, and I get ramrodded by I guess all these expert drone pilots. I wouldn't have joined this forum if I was expecting all this. Never had the welcoming like this on any other forum. Jesus and even Jesus wouldn't have a **** drone if he had to put up with all this ****

You got the advice you sought, didn't like it, got to enjoy some confirmation bias from those who disagree with the law as well, and appear ready to skirt the law through self-justification.

But yeah, that's our fault for trying to guide you. Sorry about that.

 

[ianwood]

OK. Everyone settle down. State the facts. If you need to impose your opinion, keep it brief. This is not an argument of whether or not you need a part 107. In this case, the law says you do. If your flight is conducted "for the furtherance of a business", it is considered commercial.

As for the OP, if you have no knowledge of drones and how to use them, you have many steps to take before you can effectively deliver what you want. Unless it's about the journey, I would recommend hiring someone. It will be faster and cheaper. Just hire someone competent. The number of times I get hired to shoot something that someone else has screwed up is pretty substantial.

 

[AlecW]

Yeah, I found that, too. If it helps, the FAA has no regulations regarding that sort of thing.

I had to google. It's regulated on a State level but complaints can be made to the FTC on the federal level if needed.
Funeral Services | Georgia Department of Law's Consumer Protection Unit

Also, to be clear, Benbo5 didn't specify whether it was his girlfriend. In fact, he didn't even indicate whether another person was involved at all.

Good point, I made an assumption there.