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Manual Mode Descent

Discussion in 'Phantom 2 Vision + Discussion' started by flyNfrank, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. flyNfrank

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    I have yet to fly in manual mode which brings up the question about is there a special process for the descending part of flying in manual mode.

    So I figured my plan would be to switch from manual to gps, of coarse.

    So if I were at 400ft in manual mode, would descending be similar to atti mode when coming down, or worse, or...?
     
  2. dpdpkpcom

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    I'd love to know the answer to this too. I'm getting to the point of mustering up the courage to give it a go, but I'm hoping someone else can share their "manual mode" experience first !

    With 400ft of height and good LOS to the bird, if it goes awry, then a flick of S1 to GPS I'm hoping would save any whacky behaviour.

    Anyone been brave enough to try manual mode ?
     
  3. smallman28

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    Very briefly but it WAS very windy at the time.
    You need to aware as you need to fly it,there is no help unless you switch back to GPS :)
    Regardless of how high you are if you switch to manual you will start to descend,the Phantom is a bit different in that you don't normally need to hold the throttle to keep it in the air.
    You can get to a high,let the stick centre and the Phantom will stay there at that height.
    As soon as you switch to manual though that is then seen as half throttle which wont be enough to hold it and it will slowly start to come down.
    Also turning etc will require you to add throttle input to keep it at the same height.
     
  4. MapMaker53

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    Sounds easy to go into an out of control downward spiral at any moment without the proper stick positions. Depending on the bird's orientation at the time (completely sideways or even inverted while heading for the ground), I would imagine it might take more time than you've got for the GPS to be able to right itself. If one is going to try manual mode, it is probably best to practice it at an appropriately high altitude that will provide a few more seconds of recovery time when you need it. Personally, I'll be staying away from that mode.
     
  5. TonG

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    I did some manual flying and I like it although it is difficult.
    You can descent very very quickly (beware of VRS, keep some horizontal movement!) or otherwise take a steep dive. Works very well.
    Switch back in time to Gps-mode. This works immediately as a good brake but if you have a high dive speed a takes quite a lot of meters before the bird is hovering again.

    Manual flying is a long learning curve and alas the transmitter is not well suited for it. It doesn't have exponential controls which is very needed for to have fine control.
    But is big fun.
    Best thing to do is to dismount the camera and gimbal because the bird alone is resistant to a lot of little crashes!

    Ton
     
  6. flyNfrank

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    Ok so I finally put some time together to try out Manual Mode. I watched one video an the guy said to go up to around 60ft before switching to manual mode. I decided to go around 200+ and I'm glad I did! And once landed I was changing back to failsafe.

    When you see it floating down, all I did was just switch it into manual mode and nothing else. The fliping would take place by pushing up on right lever. There was one point I managed to fly around 100ft before it flipped forward.

    Watch it in full screen. And I can't explain yet why the speed doesn't display the actual speed when it is descending.


    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-zXir-pTjs[/youtube]
     
  7. singapore_phantom

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    Frank, you mean that the moment you switched to Manual, the copter did a flip on you, without you entering any stick input yet? Wow, that's quite radical.

    illustrative video by the way. Thanks for that.
     
  8. flyNfrank

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    No no.... When switch to manual, the quad drops and begins building speed.

    The flipping would take place when moving right lever up.
     
  9. flyNfrank

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    TonG, you were right on the money with what you mentioned here above.
     
  10. singapore_phantom

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    Ok, got you. Yes, typically you'll need to up throttle from center in Manual, just to keep the Phantom in its hover.

    Ok, so then you pitched forward and then the copter flipped forward. On my trainer, to fly forward, I need to pitch forward ever so delicately, because stick input tends to be way more sensitive and the copter is way more responsive than the Phantom when it's in GPS or ATTI mode.

    So tiny little adjustments on the sticks are what's needed to fly this trainer, or else it will overshoot and flip. I guess this is the case in the Phantom too when it manual mode, correct?
     
  11. flyNfrank

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    I didn't realize I was overshooting at the time. I did move the lever slower and that is when I was making forward progress. But then it flipped again and I think that is when I gave up.

    So when going forward, are they able to fly fast?
     
  12. singapore_phantom

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    Manual is the most freestyle of all modes and allows the Phantom to tilt to the max (and beyond) which potentially generates more speed than GPS or ATTI. But, apart from returning the tilt back to normal, you have to also manually add lift component commensurately or your copter will flip and drop, respectively.

    Mind you, this is the case with my trainer; I'm assuming the Phantom in manual mode behaves the same way.
     
  13. dpdpkpcom

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    Thanks for giving it a go frank.

    Overall, would you consider it worthwhile for achieving faster descents ? Or too risky ?

    Do you think if you had set the left stick to 75% before flicking s1 to manual, it may not have dropped ?

    Thanks again !
     
  14. justin00

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    Can you manual mode guys tell me us like.... How does manual mode work ?? Is it just you need to control at all times ?? Like to make it hover you have to carefully keep left stick upwards ?
    I'm way to scared to try it... but thats partly due to not having a clue how it works etc
     
  15. KevinH

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    Just watching the video, seems like heavy handed on the sticks is all. I find flying with the sticks between thumb and forefinger I can manipulate the controls with slow easy movements. It takes a lot of practice...
     
  16. DrJoe

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    So I've had some experience in manual mode. My son has an FC40 Phantom 1.1 and we mess around with it.

    First thing you need to know:
    Throttle up while switching into manual mode. The Phantom no longer holds its altitude in neutral and requires throttle up to remain at a steady altitude.

    Second thing:
    All inputs are additive. If you give it a little right stick forward, it changes its angle forward, and stays there. Always make small right stick inputs, then immediately release the stick back to neutral. You must give opposite stick to return the Phantom to level.

    So what happened in that video is the OP switched to Manual, the Phantom dropped like a stone because not enough throttle up input was given. Then, the OP added stick forward and held in forward, making the Phantom continue to rotate forward until he let go of the stick, then switched back to GPS/ATTI and it righted itself.

    Manual mode is not easy. It requires a light touch, and you MUST remember that control with the left stick needs to be gentle, then immediately centered after the input. Altitude is life.

    With the FC40, we must have wrecked 10 times before we got the hang of it. But nothing to break except props (went through quite a few of these). I have only flown my P2V+ on manual twice, but it is much more fragile and its easy to lose control by forgetting to hold throttle up or release right stick after input. Made me really respect those original R/C heli pilots that used to fly those things with no flight controller.

    Good luck!
     
  17. TonG

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    If you fly manually you have to control it actively all the time. There is not hanging back. If you are in atti mode and you give lets say right roll the bird start moving horizontally with a slight angle. If you release the stick the angle disappears the copter will return slowly to a stable hoover.

    This is not with manual!!!
    On the first place if you give a little roll (or forward, backward) the bird moves in that direction with a slight dive. If you keep it that way it is gaining speed all the way. Releasing you stick does not stop the movement and dive.It goes on faster and faster.
    To stop it you have to move the stick in the opposite direction. This holds for every movement. Stick action and stick counteraction. But do it subtle!! As I said before, the transmitter is poor for manual flying. You need exponential control.
    If you going sideward or for/backwards give also a little throttle to compensate for the dive. Off course you can make steep dives and then counteract it. You can move up if you want.

    I found it very difficult when moving the bird sidewards (for/backbards) to maintain the same altitude, especially if you change directions. Try it.
    So switch to manual, give a little throttle and find the hoover state, (not so difficult) then make very light movements to the the right an left. If you flying sidewards you see much better how the bird reacts then when you fly backwards and forwards.

    And remember; there is always GPS-mode to the rescue!

    I'm only a beginner and I have a lot to learn. But it is big fun.
    (off course every seasoned acropilot with heartely laugh about this)

    I fly with the PV2+ but have removed the camera and gimbal.

    Ton
     
  18. singapore_phantom

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    DrJoe and Ton, thanks for that feedback, valuable stuff indeed.

    Can I ask. I mastered the UDI U818A, essentially a toy quad, before moving on to the PV2+. Is it fair to say that flying one of these cheapo toy quads is analogous to flying the Phantom in manual? The UDI has no GPS or ATTI, but it does have gyros. However, I'm not sure if the way they work in the UDI (or the Hubsan or any other such toy quad on the market) is the same as the Phantom's when in manual mode. If Phantom's manual mode is even more dumbed down than these toy quads, then I guess I'm only halfway there eh.
     
  19. TonG

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    As far as I know, DJI doesn't describe the manual mode in its manual, you are alone if you flying in Manual.
    No gyro's and no accelerometers. No autopilot help anymore. You have to stabilise the quad on your own.
    Every disturbance of the wanted balance you have actively to correct/counteract.
    Its very easy to lose completely control after a manoeuvre. Most of the time that means a steep dive with very high speeds. Coming back then manually in control is very difficult unless you have enough experience. The only way out is back to Atti or even better to GPS and full throttle.

    If you can fly your micoquad with gyro's you are not half way, because it is horizontally stabilized and that is in my opinion the most important part of the autopilot. ( I'm not speaking about gps, failsave etc because these are very different functions.)

    Ton
     
  20. dpdpkpcom

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    Very interesting reading and very helpful, thanks guys