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Long range flights and altitudes

Discussion in 'Phantom 2 Vision + Discussion' started by saao, Nov 11, 2014.

  1. saao

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    Hey guys need some expert advice what role does altitude play in long range flights any examples I have seen lots of videos on YouTube and 500 feet altitude is standard for a flight which has a minimum distance of 8000 feet then u increase both
     
  2. ToThePoint

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    Re: Long range flights and altitudes

    It depends on how the conditions are on the terrain.
    Geert can descend on a long range flight as he goes up a hill. ( If i recall that right its Geert )
    I did a 21000 or 3.8 mile flight with a hight of 950ft.
    The other i did was 23000ft and 1450ft something altitude.
    The only consideration is the radiation pattern of the used antennae.
    The further away the less steep the angle is so to profit the max range out of the antennae its something to consider.
    Also we have a lot of windmills here and a 4.4mile or 7km run will guarantee the possibility of encountering one.
    These thing reach high up in the air and create a vortex. I stay way clear of these things and i never do a distance run under 600 to 700ft.
     
  3. saao

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    Re: Long range flights and altitudes





    Hey thanks for the info this is how my setup looks like now I have checked everything and not sure y I get lose control signal at 8000 feet with an altitude of 500 feet first I checked all connections and if their even was some issue with the installation y at 8000 feet y not before so then I started searching may be its because of I m not going high enough I live in a city but my usual route is from my roof which is 25 feet above the road level and then it's mostly open space no tall building I do have houses the biggest issue is that minimum wind at my side is not less then 5 mph so at times it can get tough cause in live close to the Arabian Sea my setup idyll horizonfpv 11 dbi loco for 5.8 and on bird side with an amp I have 1.5 db each for 2.4 I have 12 db helical with to pin wheels on my bird the fpv so far hasn't given me any trouble.

    What i seek from ur info is that the higher I go the better range I'll get ?
     

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  4. djczing

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    Re: Long range flights and altitudes

    Perhaps marginally better higher up (due to less dense atmosphere), but for the most part height is needed to keep Line of sight between controller and bird - so if you are flying close, and over a line of tall trees, you will have to fly much higher to maintain LOS.

    Over water, theoretically youd only have to increase altitude as the earth curves :)
     
  5. ToThePoint

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    Re: Long range flights and altitudes

    But there humidity plays a role as the water evaporates. So close above the water surface is a bit questionable.
     
  6. ToThePoint

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    Re: Long range flights and altitudes

    Its odd you get only 8000ft.

    Is it possible to make better detailed pictures on how the antenna's are installed on the bird ?
    It seems that the 2.4ghz antenna's are mounted on a angle ?
    Also make a list on what you have installed.
     
  7. saao

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    Re: Long range flights and altitudes

    ill take detailed pics and post you
    this is the pilot side
    1 x BH 2.4 GHz LHCP 12 dB ( Gold ) with silver Patch cable
    1 x BH 5.8 GHz LHCP 12 dB ( Gold ) New now fitted to the array centre


    5.8 amp and 2 watt amp sunhans
    on bird side

    2 x 5.8 GHz SP for the RC control ( Gold ) LHCpFrequency:

    2.4 GHz Pair of matched 2.4 Ghz SP micro versionGain: 1.7dB
    Impedance: 50 Ohms
    Angle: 360°

    all antennas are gold
     
  8. nhoover

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    Re: Long range flights and altitudes

    Interesting question. I haven't really tried any low altitude distance flights. About 400' or just under as a minimum, but more typically 550-600' or so. Have made it to just over 13000' with unmodified P2V+ and no amps but various different antennas on the TX and repeater. Here is a pretty amazing flight (not a Phantom and not mine) but still, not high altitude for the distance (well over 50,000'): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJDMzhIkscw
     
  9. saao

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    Re: Long range flights and altitudes

    Well I guess I'll try a test flight in a day or two with high altitude and see if there are any different results
     
  10. saao

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    Re: Long range flights and altitudes

    Cause I can't think of anything else that is breaking the signal
     
  11. ToThePoint

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    Re: Long range flights and altitudes

    ????? Did you install a amp for 5.8ghz on the bird ? WHY ?
    Ok i reread the post and the amps are on the RC not the bird. Its confusing because " on bird side "sticks to the 5.8amp. A blank new line would have separated it so my old brain is less confused.
    The list confuses me again.
    Try a list like this:

    RC ( radio control) :

    Antennae 2.4Ghz:
    Amp 2.4ghz:

    Antennae 5.8Ghz:
    Amp 5.8Ghz:

    Bird ( Phanton )

    Antennae 2.4Ghz:
    Amp 2.4ghz:

    Antennae 5.8Ghz:
    Amp 5.8Ghz:

    For me its:

    RC ( radio control) :

    Antennae 2.4Ghz: 10 turn helical = approx 12db LHCP
    Amp 2.4ghz: 2 W

    Antennae 5.8Ghz: 11 turn helical = approx 12.3db RHCP
    Amp 5.8Ghz: 1w

    Bird ( Phanton )

    Antennae 2.4Ghz: 2x skew planar LHCP

    Antennae 5.8Ghz: 2x skew planar RHCP
     
  12. saao

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    Re: Long range flights and altitudes

    yes your rite on most of the part except 5.8 amp is also 2 watts and the bird side 5.8 helical and skew planar are LHCP sorry for making it confusing for you

    RC ( radio control) :

    Antennae 2.4Ghz: 10 turn helical = approx 12db LHCP
    Amp 2.4ghz: 2 W

    Antennae 5.8Ghz: 11 turn helical = approx 12.3db LHCP
    Amp 5.8Ghz: 2w

    Bird ( Phanton )

    Antennae 2.4Ghz: 2x skew planar LHCP

    Antennae 5.8Ghz: 2x skew planar LHCP
     
  13. ToThePoint

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    Re: Long range flights and altitudes

    Your issue and why you are getting only 8000ft is the polarization of the 2.4 and 5.8Ghz.
    As 2.4 with harmonics will be 2.4 x 2 = 4.8 Ghz and considering that the WIFI 2.4Ghz interferes with the 1.5Ghz GPS signals its not wise to use the same circular polarization for the 2.4 and 5.8.
    One must be LHCP and the other RHCP !
    I use only a 1w amp and a RHCP on 5.8Ghz and i get more RC range then on the 2w amp LHCP for 2.4.
    That wifi 2.4Ghz range has reached 23000ft before it lost connection.
    I also use the booster app to get that.
    Without the booster app i get 17-18000ft.
    I also want to see how you made the setup of the antennae.
    As i can see you have used also long coax to connect the antennae witch also contributes to loss, especially on these frequency's.
     
  14. saao

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    Re: Long range flights and altitudes

    well all of this was recommended by will at horizon fpv since the pilot single extreme kit comes with both 5.8 and 2.4 in lhcp i had to choose the same for the bird.

    as for the coax i used the splice method and soldered them which antenna are u talking about he bird or the rc
     
  15. ToThePoint

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    Re: Long range flights and altitudes

    Sure why not, he's the expert and your getting 8000ft range.
    I am just a HAM radio guy that makes his own antennae and i can test them, obvious i get only 23000ft with even half of power on 5.8Ghz.
    What wrong is this picture ?

    Still want to see how you placed the antennae so i can get a clear picture on what may limit your range.
    As you say splice is that on the 5.8 and/or 2.4 ?
    Do you have any knowledge of impedance and what it does in a 50 Ohm environment ?
     
  16. saao

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    Re: Long range flights and altitudes

    Well I am not saying he is an expert sorry if I offended you I guess we all are new to this and take advice based on whatever research we do.

    I did the splice for the 5.8 on the bird and the rc yes I do have some knowledge on the 50 ohm point and calculations needed to maintain but I do feel I mute have messed up on the bird side just saying here u go more pics
     

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  17. saao

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    Re: Long range flights and altitudes

    Sorry quoted my reply to my self
     
  18. ToThePoint

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    Re: Long range flights and altitudes

    Saao

    Thanks for the pictures, they confirm what i guessed, so now i am sure about whats messing up stuff for you.
    Before i make my final conclusion just mention what you lose @ 8000ft ? RC or wifi ?
     
  19. saao

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    Re: Long range flights and altitudes

    rc wifi is pretty strong
     
  20. ToThePoint

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    Re: Long range flights and altitudes

    Were to begin ?

    To get more range on your setup the following points of interest CAN be concidered.

    On the RC:

    1) Get a difference in LHCP and RHCP between the 2.4 and 5.8Ghz stuff.
    That would implement that on the RC one helical has to be changed.
    I suggest to change the 5.8Ghz to RHCP on the RC due to a reason that i explain later.

    The birds mods makes my eyebrows roll :roll:

    1) The antennae for the 2.4Ghz wifi are mounted on 45* angle compared to the bird. Why are the mounted approx 45* ?
    They have to be on a 180 and 90* angle ( the same way the 5.8Ghz are mounted is 180*).
    The way they are mounted now leaves a blank space in the middle ( according to radiation pattern ).
    The long extended cable to feed them gives way to much loss. There are better shorter ways to mount them but it will work like this.


    2) The splice is hidden but what i can see is totally not done the way it seems to be.
    The splice itself will act like a antenna by the exposed inner wire thus blocking and interfering any 5.8Ghz.
    The use of some 5 connectors to connect it ? To many losses ! Why didn't you dismantle the first connector after the splice and soldered that to the coax coming out of the bird directly so you don't have to use that many connectors and have a shorter cleaner setup ?

    When you are @ this just make the 5.8Ghz also RHCP
    Also mount one on a 90* angle and on the sides and one like it is now but placed on the side.
    If they are in the front and back the camera will block the line of sight when doing a long range attempt.
    If you fly on a short distance it will not affect any frequency because you pack a power punch that makes sure you don't lose connection when the bird faces you sideways on short distances.
    I did a 180* 2.4Ghz LHCP antenna on one side and the 5.8Ghz RHCP mounted on the same side but 90* and on the other side changed the setup to 90* on 2.4 and 180* for 5.8.

    Thats what i would change on your setup to get more range. But its all your choice.