I tend to agree as the P2/P3 packs are using 10C rated cells to my understanding. For my fixed-wings I generally purchase 20-30C packs at a minimum & most of those birds are only powering a single motor.
I don't even own a P3, so I may not be the best person to ask.
All I know is I've read in at least two threads of P3 owners getting a warning message during flight when their battery is at 15C.
BTW, yesterday I flew my P2V in 29 degrees and winds 6-9 mph - one of the nicest days we've had this month. I started off with the battery at around 65 F which surprised me since I purposely tried to warm the battery before even inserting the battery into my aircraft. Eleven minutes later, the battery was reading 36 degrees F (2 C). No problems, but a lot colder than I wanted my battery to get. I think I'll plug the air vents next time...
Uh since when does supply and demand work that way??? When demand goes up prices go up. Only when supply exceeds demand does it make prices go down. The reason gas prices are so low is because supply way out shadows the demand at the moment...
Prices for natural gas go up in the winter and down in the summer too...
Oh, so you joined the forum to say what a fine fellow you are?
Say What? If you like, you may join him, in his quest for a better option.
Meanwhile, back in Paris... Hahaha
We already know which drone brand is best, that's why we are here.
What's your excuse? ;-)
RedHotPoker
You know, I just dont quite understand your attitude. Do you have stock in DJI? I am sure everyone in this forum owns a Phantom or other DJI product, and there are bound to be some differant opinions regarding the product but I dont think there is any reason to talk down to anyone that posts what they think about an issue just because you have a strong belief in the product. My suggestion is to lighten up some man, perhaps go fly and cool off a bit if thats possible.
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2015
- Messages
- 325
- Reaction score
- 236
- Age
- 53
I guess a few facts could help clear matters a bit. Some may disagree, that's fine and fair. But I guess maybe there'd be a lot less frustration, complaints and perhaps issues (certainly less bickering) if people taking up on drones and DJI realized a few things:
1) The Phantom is NOT designed, created or even meant for hobbyists. It's a flying camera, a very capable and advanced one at that, but it is clearly (and declared) a CONSUMER drone, aimed at first time pilots and general public. Who usually have no idea about charging and conditioning LiPOs other than their tablets and iPhones, high speed, long range or some other tech stuff we discuss here.
My take: If these people wanted to learn about all these things, they'd be into the hobby in the first place, because it's a very specific, deep and detailed endeavor and with serious learning curve to even start doing some basic stuff. The P3 is a serious aircraft, but most anyone can buy a P3, charge and get it on the air in 30 minutes, taking amazing pics and filming their kids playing soccer. Try that with a 3D copter, some other fixed wing or even a speed car.
2) Being a CONSUMER drone means it has some easy, accessible and simple ways to deal with processes that any aircraft of its kind needs in order to fly with a minimum safety level. It has A LOT of safeguards built it to help in every aspect (from charging to discharging to flying and all). Despite the intended "foolproofness" of P3 general operation, it still don't warrant a 100% trouble-free operation. But then nothing can, not with drones, not with cars, not with planes or even toasters. Problems can and will occur, from so many different causes it's almost impossible to list - don't even mention foresee or prevent. Still, I'd guess the majority of P3s out there are flying fine.
3) I see people complaining of speed. Fair enough, but the P3 is NOT a racing drone. Pilots into speed and range are much better served elsewhere. Racing drones can't do what the P3 does, and no one flying a Lumeniere or a Storm Type A is complaining their quads can't film 20 minutes in 4K. And long range drones cost up to 10s of thousands and demand serious training and licensing. Still, the P3 usual speeds are quite fine for it's size, motors and weight.
My take: if DJI tries to improve safe flying in cold and most conditions through adjustments and advancements in FW and HW, then IMHO they're doing what a company is supposed to do for the good of its clients. I can't and won't fault them for acting that way. Sport cars are sport cars, any other car has priorities other than speed. Yes, I'm very happy with my P3 as it is, and no I have no stock on DJI at all (but I wish I did LOL).
4) If you're new to drones, flying models and LiPO in general, you would do good by deep researching on this type of battery and its ways. LiPOs are very powerful and capable and generally very reliable. That's accepted. But of course they have limits. They don't like cold, and to get the best of them you need to take good care which in general consist of following some rules - quite simple and few ones in fact. After yrs of dealing with LiPOs MHO is that P3 batteries are good. Not best, but good. And reliable, if you don't push them to levels it's not designed to work on and take good care.
My take: yes they cost a lot (relatively speaking) because the non-hobbyist CONSUMER that make up the majority of P3 users would mean a huge increase the chance of messing up - if they had to deal with voltage readers, computerized chargers, timers and stuff like that in order to keep batteries going and quads flying good. Not to mention the possibility of pilots trying low-quality battery adaptations which would certainly cause a lot of problems too. So yes, DJI made a smart move by adding some smartness to the battery instead of leaving the burden to the user. It's not super-smart, but enough. Start-up cost is higher but so is safety and ease of use, and in the long run it saves a lot for most P3 pilots I'm quite sure.
5) If you're out there doing a night ride on your MTB and it's really cold, you better give a good discount on your LiPO-powered LED estimated times or you might end up in the dark before getting home. Same for your drone, only it'll crash instead. That's the nature of LiPOs, and until something better comes up we're stuck.
I believe those are for the most part FACTS, not something I made up. It's all out there, but don't you guys take my word for it: go out and ask hobbyists, do some research, talk to shop and club people.
1) The Phantom is NOT designed, created or even meant for hobbyists. It's a flying camera, a very capable and advanced one at that, but it is clearly (and declared) a CONSUMER drone, aimed at first time pilots and general public. Who usually have no idea about charging and conditioning LiPOs other than their tablets and iPhones, high speed, long range or some other tech stuff we discuss here.
My take: If these people wanted to learn about all these things, they'd be into the hobby in the first place, because it's a very specific, deep and detailed endeavor and with serious learning curve to even start doing some basic stuff. The P3 is a serious aircraft, but most anyone can buy a P3, charge and get it on the air in 30 minutes, taking amazing pics and filming their kids playing soccer. Try that with a 3D copter, some other fixed wing or even a speed car.
2) Being a CONSUMER drone means it has some easy, accessible and simple ways to deal with processes that any aircraft of its kind needs in order to fly with a minimum safety level. It has A LOT of safeguards built it to help in every aspect (from charging to discharging to flying and all). Despite the intended "foolproofness" of P3 general operation, it still don't warrant a 100% trouble-free operation. But then nothing can, not with drones, not with cars, not with planes or even toasters. Problems can and will occur, from so many different causes it's almost impossible to list - don't even mention foresee or prevent. Still, I'd guess the majority of P3s out there are flying fine.
3) I see people complaining of speed. Fair enough, but the P3 is NOT a racing drone. Pilots into speed and range are much better served elsewhere. Racing drones can't do what the P3 does, and no one flying a Lumeniere or a Storm Type A is complaining their quads can't film 20 minutes in 4K. And long range drones cost up to 10s of thousands and demand serious training and licensing. Still, the P3 usual speeds are quite fine for it's size, motors and weight.
My take: if DJI tries to improve safe flying in cold and most conditions through adjustments and advancements in FW and HW, then IMHO they're doing what a company is supposed to do for the good of its clients. I can't and won't fault them for acting that way. Sport cars are sport cars, any other car has priorities other than speed. Yes, I'm very happy with my P3 as it is, and no I have no stock on DJI at all (but I wish I did LOL).
4) If you're new to drones, flying models and LiPO in general, you would do good by deep researching on this type of battery and its ways. LiPOs are very powerful and capable and generally very reliable. That's accepted. But of course they have limits. They don't like cold, and to get the best of them you need to take good care which in general consist of following some rules - quite simple and few ones in fact. After yrs of dealing with LiPOs MHO is that P3 batteries are good. Not best, but good. And reliable, if you don't push them to levels it's not designed to work on and take good care.
My take: yes they cost a lot (relatively speaking) because the non-hobbyist CONSUMER that make up the majority of P3 users would mean a huge increase the chance of messing up - if they had to deal with voltage readers, computerized chargers, timers and stuff like that in order to keep batteries going and quads flying good. Not to mention the possibility of pilots trying low-quality battery adaptations which would certainly cause a lot of problems too. So yes, DJI made a smart move by adding some smartness to the battery instead of leaving the burden to the user. It's not super-smart, but enough. Start-up cost is higher but so is safety and ease of use, and in the long run it saves a lot for most P3 pilots I'm quite sure.
5) If you're out there doing a night ride on your MTB and it's really cold, you better give a good discount on your LiPO-powered LED estimated times or you might end up in the dark before getting home. Same for your drone, only it'll crash instead. That's the nature of LiPOs, and until something better comes up we're stuck.
I believe those are for the most part FACTS, not something I made up. It's all out there, but don't you guys take my word for it: go out and ask hobbyists, do some research, talk to shop and club people.
All you have done is twist peoples words around and make them appear as though they did what you type. That's the reason I stopped responding to you. I never said not one fraction of anything you said I did. You assumed what you said was why I wasn't responding back to you, and you were wrong.
I said..."it's stuff like that right there" in which I was referring to the fact that you were putting words in my mouth and twisting stuff. In the meantime you apparently edited a image from the manual into post because it was not when I posted "it's stuff like that right there".
At any rate, I'm done with if you haven't already noticed. And I'm going to ask you nicely to not even involve yourself in any threads I create. You are too argumentative and lash out an anyone with an opinion that differs from yours. The personality of this website in general has changed and it's to bad. It use to be more family oriented with everyone being respectable with each other acting as though we were Uncles & Cousin's. Then not long after the P3 being released, this site inherited a group that with in time has as I say...changed the site's personality.
I last edited that post 2 hours before you posted your reply to it, go back and check, you can see when you posted a response and when I last edited my post. Usually if I post something and realize a spelling error or something I edit it immediately, I would have no reason to go back hours ago and re-add a link from the manual. give it a rest frank and stop trolling me.
I never put any words in your mouth, the most I ever did repeat what you had already said. Here is proof the manual page was already pinned to that post before you responded. Nobody wants to be told they are causing confusion or spreading misinformation when all they are doing is trying to help people and posting facts straight from the manual. You were posting lots of misinformation and it seems like all you wanted to do was cause a rukus. I posted facts.
Attachments
Last edited:
I have built and bought a lot of different aircraft over time and I must say that the Phantom that I own now is the first that even came close to what was promised. I live in Utah and it's been really cold here! So cold some days that your fingers freeze before the Phantom is even out of power but that is because I keep my batteries warm before I use them to fly. I've never had any issue with it other than my own stupid mistake of forgetting that the power lines run under my driveway and it messed up the compass but that was my fault not the Phantom. I have FPV racers and stunt quads and the Phantom. The reason I have these is because they all serve different purposes as Alex said the Phantom was created for a purpose and that purpose was to be a flying camera and it does that quite well. As you can see I don't post much and I've not been on this forum for long but I felt I needed to chime in because I feel that even though the Phantom is not perfect it is the best one currently on the market for what it does and the majority of people that use them do so for a reason. Batteries are expensive and not just for the Phantom. I own the 3DR Solo and let me tell you the batteries for it are just as expensive as the Phantom's. Sorry for the rant but I was hopping that this forum was going to be different from the others because it's supposed to be about sharing information about something that you love to do not to rip apart people because they have an opinion on something. I have learned a lot of good information from this forum that has helped me with my Phantom and has probably made my experience with it a lot easier. Just remember when you post to try and remember why you are here in the first place.
Again sorry for the rant and thank you all for all the wonderful information that you have passed along. You have made my experience with the Phantom a much happier one.
Again sorry for the rant and thank you all for all the wonderful information that you have passed along. You have made my experience with the Phantom a much happier one.
They call them batteries because they are a battery of cells. The cells are connected in series and all see the load. It is the phsical and consequently differences in perfotmance between cells that results in them going out of balance.
ianwood
Taco Wrangler
First, everyone settle down. People are entitled to complain about the batteries. Telling them to go elsewhere is not productive. There are real issues with the batteries. DJI cuts the C rating too close to minimize cost and weight penalties.
The P2, the P3 and the Inspire have all had cases of sudden battery death, where the current trips off the internal circuit breaker in the battery. While the circuit is there to protect the battery from being overloaded, it defeats the purpose when it kills the host!
DJI also recommends deep cycling of batteries to calibrate percentage readings. These deep cycles are damaging to the batteries and causes them to chemically fail. And their percentage algorithms are not very good. Everyone should learn quickly to read and fly by cell voltage only.
The P2 batteries suffered from voltage sags after 30 or 40 cycles. Almost every battery had this problem. And many of them puffed. It looks like things have improved with the P3 and the Inspire but we still see plenty of sudden percentage drops (cold and warm weather) and we see sudden loss of power in too many birds, especially the Inspire.
Slowing them down to keep them from killing themselves is good medicine but it's also bad design. It should have been worked out prior to shipping product.
The P2, the P3 and the Inspire have all had cases of sudden battery death, where the current trips off the internal circuit breaker in the battery. While the circuit is there to protect the battery from being overloaded, it defeats the purpose when it kills the host!
DJI also recommends deep cycling of batteries to calibrate percentage readings. These deep cycles are damaging to the batteries and causes them to chemically fail. And their percentage algorithms are not very good. Everyone should learn quickly to read and fly by cell voltage only.
The P2 batteries suffered from voltage sags after 30 or 40 cycles. Almost every battery had this problem. And many of them puffed. It looks like things have improved with the P3 and the Inspire but we still see plenty of sudden percentage drops (cold and warm weather) and we see sudden loss of power in too many birds, especially the Inspire.
Slowing them down to keep them from killing themselves is good medicine but it's also bad design. It should have been worked out prior to shipping product.
I thought the second last recent firmware update, was to have then corrected the cold weather battery situation, that plagued some drones?
RedHotPoker
RedHotPoker
ianwood
Taco Wrangler
I love my Phantom 3 Pro', much more when it's flying high in the air, than when it sits still, in the case. And have never feared flying after firmware updates or app improvements The weather here has been like spring too. But it would be a shame for something to go awry & drastically ruin my day... Perhaps I should refrain from soaring off into space, before the current rash has an ointment. ;-)
Never had a bad experience with it, & certainly don't want to start now. Ha
RedHotPoker
Never had a bad experience with it, & certainly don't want to start now. Ha
RedHotPoker
It's a fiddy a flight for the first 20 then it's free. My only fear is spoiling someone else's day with a crash. And buy a spare so no down time if the worst happens. I plan carefully so I know what will be under the flight path and watch batteries closely for the first 5 runs. After that I'm too excited about what I'm seeing on my screen to think about a battery dying. I have five packs in service and they are all good and perform as advertised. Yeah, DJI has us over a barrel re price of a pack but I knew that when I purchased the phantoms.
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2015
- Messages
- 548
- Reaction score
- 123
- Age
- 58
The original post made me wonder if the battery could me smarter. I have not seen any suggestions for this?
I honestly think that DJI as with the AC tried to make the best product for its money. Battery included. And no, I am do not work for DJI
About the price, the fairly high price was a consideration for me when I bought the P3. I have to pay an even higher price €159 ($179). This made me seriously consider the Yuneec as an alternative. Its battery is 40% cheaper,€90 ($101), and the set slightly (€200). But I was personally convinced that the Phantom is better and was willing to pay the higher price. Being smart has also extra advantages (auto-discharge). I have never doubted my decision since. Even when I had problems with my first 3.
It is a pity that a part of this thread seems to attack people personally. I agree with auen1 that a dislike button could help, but this could also emphasize critics.
So could we please get back to the original post, are there ideas to improve the battery?
I honestly think that DJI as with the AC tried to make the best product for its money. Battery included. And no, I am do not work for DJI
About the price, the fairly high price was a consideration for me when I bought the P3. I have to pay an even higher price €159 ($179). This made me seriously consider the Yuneec as an alternative. Its battery is 40% cheaper,€90 ($101), and the set slightly (€200). But I was personally convinced that the Phantom is better and was willing to pay the higher price. Being smart has also extra advantages (auto-discharge). I have never doubted my decision since. Even when I had problems with my first 3.
It is a pity that a part of this thread seems to attack people personally. I agree with auen1 that a dislike button could help, but this could also emphasize critics.
So could we please get back to the original post, are there ideas to improve the battery?
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2015
- Messages
- 325
- Reaction score
- 236
- Age
- 53
Ian, I agree with almost everything you said. I'm here to learn and share experiences and not to censor, which I believe I never did and hope will never do. But IMHO at the heart of the matter - not only about battery but almost every other P3 problem - lies a question of PERSPECTIVE.
Since I got here last yr I noticed a lot of frustration about this and that, batteries and cracks and calibrations. And at times it all make it seem that DJI is fooling customers in many deliberated ways. Well they're a big corp and all but that's a wrong idea IMHO. Also IMHO this perception should be actively countered, or balanced, and not for DJI's sake (put DJI or any other maker here and it's exactly the same) but for our own - as customers and pilots. Yes, bringing problems to attention is a positive, valid and productive action. Spreading the myth and just bash or insist on the negatives is not.
Pilots new to quads and RC hobby in general tend to have high expectations about the P3. They expect it to fly very high, for very long times, reach long distances, at high speeds, and do it repeatedly or forever without any hiccups. Well, I'm sorry to say that but it just won't. Not the P3, not any other RC AC. Not for the time being at least. And please do not fight the messenger. I admit that DJI's hype and marketing is responsible for setting the expectation that high. But DJI is DJI and we're hobbyists and pilots.
And as a forum participant I feel it's my duty to contribute positively and propose in a positive way that we should "calibrate" our expectations - just as we do with out P3's systems. I try to do that by sharing my view as long time hobbyist, as limited as it is. DJI's drones aren't the best out there. For almost any specific purpose (filming, payload, stunt, race, etc.) there are quite a few better options in the market. But the best filming/high payload quads cost well over $30K, and a good, 250 class ready-to-race rig will set you back about the price of a P3 or more. But as @IBeSnoopy said above, and I agree, the P3 is far from perfect but it's the closest to the "promise": a serious, reliable, capable, easy to fly, relatively safe and cheap drone with a camera. That means compromises, we must keep that in mind.
Of course I don't expect non-hobbyists P3 pilots to share a hobbyist's perspective on quads and the whole RC thing. A pilot need to walk that path to really grasp it. But I believe that putting the P3 issues in a wider context throughout these debates may help new (and not so much) pilots to better understand the hobby of flying ACs, what's involved and where the P3 and its characteristics fit. Maybe that also helps lower a bit the anxiety and better deal with frustrations.
Just my opinion, and thanks for keeping PP a nice place.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2015
- Messages
- 325
- Reaction score
- 236
- Age
- 53
The original post made me wonder if the battery could me smarter. I have not seen any suggestions for this?
I honestly think that DJI as with the AC tried to make the best product for its money. Battery included. And no, I am do not work for DJI
About the price, the fairly high price was a consideration for me when I bought the P3. I have to pay an even higher price €159 ($179). This made me seriously consider the Yuneec as an alternative. Its battery is 40% cheaper,€90 ($101), and the set slightly (€200). But I was personally convinced that the Phantom is better and was willing to pay the higher price. Being smart has also extra advantages (auto-discharge). I have never doubted my decision since. Even when I had problems with my first 3.
It is a pity that a part of this thread seems to attack people personally. I agree with auen1 that a dislike button could help, but this could also emphasize critics.
So could we please get back to the original post, are there ideas to improve the battery?
Good one, but the only way to improve the battery is to add complexity, weight and thus cost. I mean, to really increase the reliability factor of any LiPO is only possible through: 1) better quality cells (as I said IMHO the P3 is good enough); 2) strict procedures, which implies a learning curve and some serious equipment: a capable, complete computerized high-capacity charger with balancing and IR reading features; a reliable voltage reader, to be used right after every flight to measure voltage drop and all.
Question is, who wants to deal with all that and pay the price? Because I tell you, it's extremely time-and-money consuming. Deal with a couple dozen good LiPOs to play around with your toys cost a lot and has some hidden costs (learning process). And still we f*ck up every once in a while, at least I do.
And that brings us back to the point. DJI made quads popular EXACTLY by simplifying all that. Quality, weight, reliability, affordability: can't have it all, pick 2 or 3 and live with it. Flying a long range, high speed filming quad is no longer a hobbyist territory only thanks to the P2 and P3 and that's great. It sure brings compromise, and problems will happen. IMHO people should accept that and learn about limitations, embrace them and improve on it.
Last edited:
