DJI GEO Coming to Your P3 Soon

[Wacker2611]

Up to press, I've been only vaguely interested in this story, until tonight that is. For the first time I made the effort to look at the DJI Geofencing website and to my horror I've realised what an utter dogs breakfast it's going to be, if it actually happens that is. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but all they seem to have done is slap a 5 mile exclusion zone around every (as they see it) 'sensitive' area, only temporarily unlockable by the user for a 3 day period and only if you've handed over your credit card number or mobile. That is not what they indicated at all in those press releases etc last year! I live 4.5 miles away from Leeds Bradford Airport which is a relatively small provincial airport in the North of the U.K. So now, every time I want to fly from my own back garden I'm going to have to go through the absolute f*****g rigmarole of gaining authorisation every 3 days! They are having a laugh!
Not only that, it's just unbelievably poorly thought out. Looking at my area, they've slapped the 5 mile exclusion zone round the airport which is in a semi rural location, but the exclusion zone stops as soon as you get in to Leeds itself which is about as urban as it gets. What harm do they really think I'm going to do 4 miles away from the poxy airport, toddling around with my little drone at 120 metres in the countryside?. It seems though that flying directly over the 4th biggest city in England is absolutely fine even though it is a thousand times more risky. I'm just waiting for the first report of someone crashing into a bus shelter full of expectant mothers because they didn't have an Internet connection and had to move to a 'safer' area to fly. What a load of dog poo.

 

[jryser]

I think I will just stay in the firmware I'm in.


Sent from my PT beating heart

 

[John Decker]

For where I am I can access two DJI maps. One is No Fly Zones | DJI and the other is DJI - The World Leader in Camera Drones/Quadcopters for Aerial Photography
Now, they are both DJI and each is different from the other. They are also both different from the official NZ CAA map. Who decides on what is right? Obviously DJI do, and while that is fair enough, because I'm assuming they operate on a best guess scenario and presumably try to get official data, it seems clear that what they are doing is just not working. Will they change? Who knows. Can we force them to change? Sadly I doubt it. Were they in the States, UK or most 'western' countries then legal action would be an option and probably the mere threat would be enough. China? They seem to be a law unto themselves. Only time will tell.

 

[Meta4]

Now, they are both DJI and each is different from the other. They are also both different from the official NZ CAA map. Who decides on what is right? Obviously DJI do.

Actually DJI get their mapping from a third party provider Airmap.
If you are aware of discrepancies you can provide feedback to flysafe@dji.com

 

[Ian MacGregor]

All I'm wondering is if this "beta" version is included in the latest firmware update... I finally upgraded to a P3A after flying my Syma X8C for months and practicing perfect orientation control without GPS or anything fancy. I haven't updated anything yet because of all the craziness and problems that I've heard about with the firmware updates. Mine has been flying just fine so far, but I just don't have the 2.7k camera, which is currently really not tooo big of a deal to me.

I just wonder how long it will be that I can fly before I have to update the app, which might end up effecting whether or not I need to update my equipment...

 

[Meta4]

All I'm wondering is if this "beta" version is included in the latest firmware update.

The current firmware has none of the GEO beta included in it.
That's the point of beta testing - to get the bugs out before it goes public.

 

[Ian MacGregor]

The current firmware has none of the GEO beta included in it.
That's the point of beta testing - to get the bugs out before it goes public.

Thanks, that's what I figured. I was thinking "there's no way they could put a beta of anything into a worldwide update".

So if I do decide to update everything, you think now might be the time to do it..?

 

[Meta4]

Thanks, that's what I figured. I was thinking "there's no way they could put a beta of anything into a worldwide update".
So if I do decide to update everything, you think now might be the time to do it..?

If you're happy to update, that's your decision. I'm going to stay neutral for now.

 

[Ian MacGregor]

If you're happy to update, that's your decision. I'm going to stay neutral for now.

fair enough, thanks for replying

 

[kphantom]

It will most likely be a required update. Meaning that you probably cannot take off your bird until it is updated.

I don't think that is possible unless the older firmware versions have some sort of check to see what the latest firmware is and if out of sync, will not take off. That's surely not the case now. I usually hold back from upgrading immediately. The software you know, bugs and all is usually better than an unknown until proven. For example, I'm at the 1.4 version currently. I actually think the 1.32 seemed better, but I think the reports are still emerging on 1.5 and 1.6. Since we have entered the cold months, I have the luxury of observing the forums a bit more before deciding what to do.

 

[kphantom]

In an ideal world, no need for regulations...
This is not an ideal world, far from it.
You DO realize the danger a quadcopter of the quality of our Phantoms can represent in the hands of bad folks ?

Most helicopter pilots won't accept to do some foolish moves, like harassing wild animals or do dangerous acrobatics to frighten a client's girlfriend.
A quadcopter owner does not always have such disciplin, especially excited newbies without previous experience or knowledge.
As usual good folks pay for the acts of bad folks. Regulations WILL roughen. Just not the same way in all countries.

These are not the worst things the FAA and others fear. Check out this article in a recent Aviation Week.

Countering Unmanned

"Countering small unmanned aircraft systems (UAS) is now a major concern for the military and other government agencies seeking to protect deployed forces and critical infrastructure from nefarious surveillance and “flying IEDs.” To the U.S. Army, which tested available counter-UAS systems at the end of 2015, the key threat is commercially available, under-20-lb. vertical-takeoff-and-landing (VTOL) UAS that can operate from anywhere. A trio of small U.K. companies–Blighter Surveillance Systems, Chess Dynamics and Enterprise Control Systems—have integrated radar detection, electro-optical/infrared tracking and radio-frequency jamming to down small UAS. But heavyweights Israel Aerospace Industries, Lockheed Martin and Selex ES are on a growing list offering counter-UAS systems.
Photo: Blighter Surveillance Systems"

 

[John Decker]

Actually DJI get their mapping from a third party provider Airmap.
If you are aware of discrepancies you can provide feedback to flysafe@dji.com

Isn't that just for the US? I'm in NZ.

 

[ianwood]

Some questions on GEO (reposted from Official DJI GEO System - News, Public Beta and information - RC Groups):

Hopefully, we'll get answers.

1. Does the GEO service actually give control back to the operator as identified in its mandate if it relies entirely on a remote authorization? If the remote system has final authority, does the pilot in command actually have full control?
2. How will DJI keep their database in sync with the FAA AF/D and NOTAMS? If the database is to be managed separately without any automated synchronization process, doesn’t it lend itself to discrepancies?
3. If DJI is to restrict locations that are not officially identified by the FAA, does this create a layer of obfuscation for new operators who already struggle to understand what rules to follow?
4. If DJI is to restrict locations that are not officially identified by the FAA, does this create a conflict with the FAA who have recently stated only they can define rules for where and when drones may be used?
5. How will DJI communicate changes to their database? Will they be scheduled? Or ad hoc? If ad hoc, how can users avoid sudden surprises?
6. How will DJI decide changes to the GEO system going forward? Will they assemble a panel of users to help collectively define what is best going forward?
7. How does GEO work in urban environments where there may be numerous warnings and restricted areas? Will GEO restrict flight into adjacent areas? Will GEO interrupt operations for each new perimeter it crosses when in proximity to numerous zones? Will the FC be overloaded by so many overlapping zones?
8. How does GEO differentiate for the diversity of operators? Is it one size fits all? Are all operators, no matter how skilled or knowledgeable, treated as if they are entirely new and uninformed?
9. Will GEO make exception for 333 exempt operators?
10. How is the authorization held? On the device? On the drone? How does GEO cater to multiple operator and multiple drone scenarios? What does an operator do if they need to switch devices or switch drones on a given shoot?
11. Is there any scenario where an authorization request is rejected despite providing a valid credit card and phone number?
12. Is there a scenario where a user can be blacklisted?
13. What type of SLA will be offered with the GEO service? How is the service fault tolerant and resilient to outages?
14. What happens when the GEO service is down? Are operators unable to fly in restricted areas until it is restored?
15. How does DJI plan to roll this out differently to other DJI rollouts in order to prevent version 1.0 issues in the field? Will there be a shakedown process before it is fully rolled out? What is the QA process?
16. How does GEO protect user PII and flight data? Will DJI publish a complete data security policy and comply with data security standards for PII and PCI?
17. Will GEO be forced upon all Inspire and Phantom 3 users? Does this effectively change the nature of the product already sold to customers in a material way?
18. How will DJI document GEO? Will there be a fully documented criteria for all zones? Will there be a publicly available change control process on the criteria?
19. Does GEO create an environment for circumvention? Doesn’t the GEO system need to be a “better way” for operators in order to keep them from finding ways to circumvent the system? Will the system, as currently defined, be so onerous as to drive well intentioned users to find ways around it?

 

[ianwood]

And some thoughts on GEO (reposted from Official DJI GEO System - News, Public Beta and information - RC Groups):

The problem with GEO and even the new FAA registration system (to a lesser extent) is they are both not well thought out. They are knee-jerk reactions to a growing sense of pending doom which frankly seems to be more rooted in the imagination of the media than in reality.

I am all for having smart limits. Everyone says there are bozos "ruining it for the rest of us". Well, that shouldn't be very surprising. Did you think everyone was going to behave?

However, DJI needs to spend a lot of time and effort to get this right. I commend the sentiment but not the plan. A half-baked solution is worse than none at all. GEO should be one of many concepts DJI should evaluate. They should pick the best one, evaluate it with their active users, refine it accordingly, test it thoroughly and only then roll it out.

If DJI feels they have to do something now, for the interim, do something simple: implement a 200ft AGL hard ceiling that requires a one-time authorization tied to your FAA FA number or 333 exemption number to be allowed to break through.

This is a solvable problem but GEO is not the right way to do it.

 

[Fourprops]

Well if his explanation was "clear and made sense" how they would force it, I'm sure you could give us a brief summary here and save each us time from calling them individually.

Just learn to fly its that simple you don't need GPS most here started with one of these units and that's all they know how to fly. Spoiler alert that not really flying !! Get you a unit that you really have to FLY in full manual mode!

 

[ParsnipHysorter]

Just learn to fly its that simple you don't need GPS most here started with one of these units and that's all they know how to fly. Spoiler alert that not really flying !! Get you a unit that you really have to FLY in full manual mode!

Yes, I've went through a couple of these non-GPS drones in the past, prior to getting my P3. You spend the majority of your time and concentration keeping it under control. If the act of flying is what you enjoy, then go full manual. But with the P3 I can spend more time enjoying the view.

 

[alirz]

Up to press, I've been only vaguely interested in this story, until tonight that is. For the first time I made the effort to look at the DJI Geofencing website and to my horror I've realised what an utter dogs breakfast it's going to be, if it actually happens that is. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but all they seem to have done is slap a 5 mile exclusion zone around every (as they see it) 'sensitive' area, only temporarily unlockable by the user for a 3 day period and only if you've handed over your credit card number or mobile. That is not what they indicated at all in those press releases etc last year! I live 4.5 miles away from Leeds Bradford Airport which is a relatively small provincial airport in the North of the U.K. So now, every time I want to fly from my own back garden I'm going to have to go through the absolute f*****g rigmarole of gaining authorisation every 3 days! They are having a laugh!
Not only that, it's just unbelievably poorly thought out. Looking at my area, they've slapped the 5 mile exclusion zone round the airport which is in a semi rural location, but the exclusion zone stops as soon as you get in to Leeds itself which is about as urban as it gets. What harm do they really think I'm going to do 4 miles away from the poxy airport, toddling around with my little drone at 120 metres in the countryside?. It seems though that flying directly over the 4th biggest city in England is absolutely fine even though it is a thousand times more risky. I'm just waiting for the first report of someone crashing into a bus shelter full of expectant mothers because they didn't have an Internet connection and had to move to a 'safer' area to fly. What a load of dog poo.

Yup..tell me about it...I'm in Montreal Canada and see similar retarded yellow zones. Dji is coming out as a piece dog crap company...

 

[ianwood]

Bumping this as it is the main thread for debating the merits of GEO.

Here is the video of Brendan Schulman discussing the intentions for GEO:

 

[ranges]

Bumping this as it is the main thread for debating the merits of GEO.

Here is the video of Brendan Schulman discussing the intentions for GEO:

Thanks

 

[almustafa]

I wonder if DJI could shut down all of their drones with a flip of the switch.