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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Luis Benito, Feb 17, 2016.
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Is murder legal as long as it's on private property?
Yes, and try to get paid only in cash so you don't have to pay any taxes either. You can do anything you want if you don't don't mind paying the price if you get caught...
Does the FAA have undercover agents in covert ops? LoL
I don't do commercial work but I know 2 people who do this stuff for a living and they don't have exemptions or anything, they even do jobs for big movies and big companies even well known news agencies. They advertise their services in the open, 1 of them even was under investigation by the FAA, nothing has come of it as of yet (almost 6 months already). The only thing that matters are your skills at doing a good job. To be honest, they aren't even that skilled.
That's kind of dangerous advice.... it's illegal but go ahead and chance it because the FAA has not been good about enforcing it? I guess that's true of a lot of things, but I am not sure I would set up a business based upon something that is currently illegal.
The good news is, the FAA wants to loosen the restrictions for commercial use and have a draft of what that would look like (you can search it on this forum) there's also a bill that's be introduced that reduces the burdens quite a bit too. I would wait for something like that to clear before creating a business around these things.
Most ask for forgiveness, rather than permission. I know of realtors who use P3's for their property listings and don't have an exemption here in NY. They just claim ignorance, which is common right now even with the negative drone exposure. It's not popular knowledge about the rules, laws or even registering your park flyer that weighs 2 lbs. No one is policing it either. No one. Local LEO are not familiar with the rules either.
Use your own judgement. If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it.........
It wasn't advice it was just the truth. Those guys only do aerial photography/videography for a living. I'm guessing they make a pretty good living since they live in NYC and it ain't cheap to live here...
To answer your question, it's illegal no matter what property you're flying over. Commercial flying is commercial.
Are you going to get away with it? Probably. The FAA is obviously way behind the power curve on UAV regulation and two-bits says it's not going to be this way forever. Sooner or later both the regulations will get up to speed and so will their enforcement actions. I'm guessing the statute of limitations is five years.
People on here are comparing taking photos of their private property to murdering someone on their private property? Crazy. Where does common sense come into play?
Take ICE for instance. They and the border patrol were created to deal specifically with ILLEGAL immigration. Those folks obviously work WITHOUT paying any income taxes because they have to do it all under the table and yet we STILL as a country are looking the other way and utilizing their "services." That is illegal and WRONG, no? BUT, we "dismiss" it just as how things are. MANY things happen this way in all types of businesses.
If a friend offers me some cash or dinner to take pictures of his property I'd do it. If ICE can't/won't even deport people LIVING here illegally, I doubt the FAA or LEO or IRS are gonna come after ME for $50. Oh by the way...the sky is falling.
Sorry, that wasn't exactly the analogy presented. It was more like "doing commercial work on private property is no more legal than murder on private property is legal." I think the majority of us got it.
Common sense tells me that it is illegal. I may or may not get caught. If I do, I will have to face the consequences. And common sense tells me despite the advice I get from strangers on a public forum, if I'm reported to the FAA, there is a very good chance they will follow up on the complaint. This commercial operator has been fined $1.9 million: Drone Operator Fined $1.9 Million - AVweb flash Article
So common sense tells me the repercussions are very real and quite possible. Common sense also tells me that the vast majority of commercial work is done on "private property" and that such a defense is just asinine.
Actually it was...post #2 replied to OP asking, "Is murder legal as long as it's on private property?" There are DEGREES of criminality...murder is not the same as taking a photo for $$$. At this point, it's not even a misdemeanor is it? If so, who will police it and how will you prove it if no one complains? I laugh when you say the FAA would actually investigate a "tip" off someone making $100 doing something like this. Good luck with that...I don't think you'll get anywhere.
Do you think photographers of the world who are friends of the bride taking some extra shots or video for $$$ are shaking in their boots? Again...COMMON sense says who cares if the bride wants to pay their friend?
You also never addressed the illegal immigration point and being paid under the table...care to? BTW, I think common sense is what MOST people think-the average person if you will, not those versed in the jungle of ever changing laws.
This "333" thing even sounds like it will likely be challenged at some point-probably due to common sense prevailing that says it's ridiculous to require an actual PILOT license to fly a quadcopter for something as innocuous as taking images of your client's house for sale. This is called OVER-regulation.
That's like saying you need an F1 Super Licence to drive a GoKart. No wonder Trump is steaming ahead in Republican polls (not that I endorse him).
Chances of getting caught are quite slim, but to suggest one can fly against the FAA rules with impunity is just flat out bad advice:
FAA Probes NY Congressman's Drone Wedding Video
FAA cease and desist letters show agency's attempts to control drone use in the US
FAA Scans the Internet For Drone Users; Sends Cease and Desist Letters - Slashdot
Posting drone videos to YouTube could get you into hot water
So to answer the Op's question; Yes, you can make money with commercial flights on private land, but you will be in violation of the law and could face fines. Private land is not a protection from the law.
Thanks for the links. I certainly understand the point that it is in fact, illegal to make money without a 333 using a drone. I'm not disputing that fact. I'm just disputing the implementation vs. people doing it for a hobby. This is government run amok.
The last TWO links you provided are both about Jayson Hanes posting videos on youtube. It is patently absurd to consider them 'commercial' because YOUTUBE makes money off the ads on their own site. One of the links reads:
"The FAA said that because there are ads on YouTube, Hanes’ flights constituted a commercial use.Hanes told Motherboard that while his videos are technically “monetized” on YouTube, he has never received a payment from Google and the revenue he’s earned from Google ads is less than a dollar.The FAA says it is looking into the matter." - MARCH 2015
BTW...would that Youtube guy be the same Jayson Hanes who just uploaded this compilation last month?
That means that EVERY video using drone footage on Youtube should be banned by the FAA, correct? If so, why are there still about a billion on there? Also, every SINGLE video that goes beyond about 3,000 feet should face EXTRA scrutiny (no longer VLOS)? I say, BRING IT.
Maybe next the FAA should get into the "air guitar" videos on youtube that have people playing along with copyrighted SONGS!!! The travesty!
FOUND THE ANSWER about YOUTUBE Jayson Hanes' videos...FAA wimped out. Before you throw out links, I think maybe some research is in order to make sure the point you are trying to make is a valid one because many people on here may be unnecessarily alarmed.
Here are comments on the FAA "situation" from Jayson Hanes...they dropped it and sent him a letter saying he was NOT in any FAA violations. Common sense rules for once I guess.
OK with the tit-for-tat.
The responsible [drone] community must police itself.
The BL is it's against current rules, laws, recommendations, statutes, CFR's, etc., what-have-you, to operate commercially without proper credentials.
People acknowledge they are aware of these rules when they ask such questions regarding loop-holes.
To take any advice here to the contrary is on the 'pilot'.
It's called arguing your point with facts, no more, no less.
Hey no discrimination here! I know of legal citizens who get paid under the table and don't pay taxes. I also know illegal aliens who have fake Social Security numbers that have those taxes taken out of their checks just to keep Uncle Sam happy. We are definitely off topic....
Bottom line to the OP - Good luck carving out your piece of the pie however you see fit.... Does this commercial work on private land involve farm animals? There may be separate laws involved.
Prob is we've seen this argument many times before.
Nothing new here.
How is it discrimination to say people who are here illegally (on MANY nationalities, including my own) can't possibly pay income taxes since they have no SS #? Agreed, citizens or legal immigrants taking money under the table are breaking the law too...just pointing out that non-legals CANNOT pay into SS legitimately (or at all really).
Now...if you GOT a fake SS just to work, that's a WHOLE different legal crap bag of trouble you are in. This culture is too PC and unwilling to call something what it is and be vigilant on the laws...unless it comes to DRONE laws I guess. We can't have it both ways folks.
Wow, those people like to break the law don't they?