Am I F'd? 1st day, slow landing on grass, disaster!

[GadgetGuy]

There have been several reports of CSC failing to stop the squealing motor in a flip over situation. That is why I asked him that specific question earlier in this post.
I first started to notice it was not rare back in April or so and commented on it then.

You hit the nail on the head early on! Bravo! Even the CSC failed in this case.
Read: DJI must pay for this repair!

 

[msinger]

Funny. The only thing the OP cares about is the warranty coverage of the repair. That's even the thread title.

Unless you're here to help, please move along. There's no need to try to tear down people who are trying to help.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Unless you're here to help, please move along. There's no need to try to tear down people who are trying to help.

You just stated, "Whether or not DJI fixes this under warranty is of no concern to me"

If you really want to help, maybe you should focus on what the OP's main concern is (DJI warranty coverage of the repair) to stay on topic, rather than hijacking the thread with your log analysis, which is really irrelevant in this case to the warranty coverage issue.

The only relevent issues to the warranty coverage are:

1. Manual still contains a poorly worded and superceded shut off mechanism that the OP followed, leading to the tip over, and the motor burning up.
2. CSC did not shut off all the motors, leading to one motor continuing to spin and burn up.
Certainly, both together lead to the inevitable conclusion of DJI warranty coverage. QED.

 

[flpholt]

 

[flpholt]

msinger is up to bat

 

[GadgetGuy]

msinger is up to bat

Fouled out!

 

[Flyboy707]

Hi guys

I'm about to call my drone dealer, which is an authorised DJI reseller. One of the biggest in Aus.

I will not accept anything other than replacement or repair at no cost.

 

[msinger]

Flyboy707, good luck. Please follow up and let us know how you make out.

 

[Flyboy707]

Thanks guys.

The reseller was sympathetic, and understood my concern.
My argument was..

• that the manual is open to interpretation. It said to pull the left stick down, which I did - I just didn't have it down fully before I performed CSC. It did not say pull down fully.
• CSC did not stop the motors immediately and for some reason one of the motors continued spinning slowly and burnt out after the other motors did eventually stop.

They are replying back to DJI with my disapproval and arguments, and they (DJI) have been asked to watch the video.

Hopefully I won't need to get the Dept of Fair Trading involved, but I will if I have to.

 

[Mocho]

Just for the heck of it I asked my wife to hold down my P3P while I tried a few CSC's upon landing.

The CSC does happen quickly if applied properly, however there is still a short lag. The weird part is that the motors spin up slightly just before they shutdown.
So when the bird tips it would make sense the stuck propeller(s) would do the same thing and try to speed up before shutting down.

I know when I've tipped my bird it seems like it takes forever for the screeching to stop after applying the CSC, but I'm not testing that

 

[GadgetGuy]

Flyboy707, good luck. Please follow up and let us know how you make out.

I assume your good luck wishes mean that whether or not DJI fixes this under warranty is now also of concern to you! It should be. How these clear cut matters are handled by DJI affects all of us!

(You had previously stated, "Whether or not DJI fixes this under warranty is of no concern to me")

 

[Flyboy707]

I am frankly gobsmacked at this issue. What sort of ESCs are they using?? Obviously not very good ones.

Well, either that or their programming could do with some improvement.

 

[Flyboy707]

Just for the heck of it I asked my wife to hold down my P3P while I tried a few CSC's upon landing.

The CSC does happen quickly if applied properly, however there is still a short lag. The weird part is that the motors spin up slightly just before they shutdown.
So when the bird tips it would make sense the stuck propeller(s) would do the same thing and try to speed up before shutting down.

I know when I've tipped my bird it seems like it takes forever for the screeching to stop after applying the CSC, but I'm not testing that

Some serious revision needs to be done on self-protection mechanisms, the CSC process, and the manual.

Thanks for your testing. Very interesting.

 

[LuvMyTJ]

Can't we all just get along?
Warnings will follow.

 

[Flyboy707]

OK my DJI distributor has resubmitted the warranty claim.

I have also written for documentation purposes an email to them explaining the reasons for my refusal to accept responsibility for the aircraft damage....

"Hi guys

I thought it may be wise to document my warranty rejection dispute so it is recorded and documented.

For the record, this is my arguments for not accepting DJI's ruling on my warranty request.

1. DJI mentions in their response that I did not follow the landing/shutdown procedure in the manual (Method 1, p46 of the Phantom 3 Professional User Manual v1.8). I followed this procedure and the insturctions below the diagram, Flight Test - Takeoff/Landing Procedures steps 7 and 8.
DJI implied that I did not fully pull down the left stick before the CSC command. The manual does not say to pull down the left stickfullybefore executing the CSC command. It just says "Method 1: When the Phantom 3 has landed,push the throttle down, then conduct the same CSC that was used to start the motors, as described above..." I pushed the left stick down, but I didn't push it down all the way - only to about ~50% as reflected in the flight log. Nothing is mentioned as to what degree the left stick must be pulled down.

The Flight Test - Takeoff/Landing Procedures steps 7 and 8 (page 46) which are below the "Stopping the Motors" diagram states:

"7. To land, hover over a level surface and gently pulled down on the throttle to descend.
8. After landing, execute the CSC command or hold the throttle at its lowest position until the motors stop."

I followed the above procedures to the letter and the flight log and youtube video reflects this.
In my view, the manual is open to user interpretation on this matter and is not direct in its requirements.


2. Even if the control inputs weren't in dispute, the CSC command failed to stop the motors immediately as mentioned in Method 1 page46 of the User Manual. Instead of shutting the motors down, the aircraft tipped backwards causing the two rear motors to stall. CSC was held after the aircraft tipped and the front motors continued to operate for a few seconds before they stopped. When they did stop, I righted the aircraft and the rear left motor was spinning slowly and started emitting smoke. Also, as soon as the aircraft tipped, a loud screeching noise could be heard and only dissipated when the rear left motors stopped and started emitting smoke. This behaviour goes against what the manual says should happen, and appears to be a fault. I don't expect a tip over event like this to cause a motor burnout in a $1700 aircraft.

Based on my efforts to adhere to the user manual's insturction on how to fly this aircraft, flight logs to verify this, Youtube video (youtubejZ8TGCMISQY) as visual evidence of the faults, and the failures encountered, I do not accept responsibility for the damage to the aircraft.

I am looking forward to DJI's and your response.

Thank you"

 

[flpholt]

OK my DJI distributor has resubmitted the warranty claim.

I have also written for documentation purposes an email to them explaining the reasons for my refusal to accept responsibility for the aircraft damage....

"Hi guys

I thought it may be wise to document my warranty rejection dispute so it is recorded and documented.

For the record, this is my arguments for not accepting DJI's ruling on my warranty request.

1. DJI mentions in their response that I did not follow the landing/shutdown procedure in the manual (Method 1, p46 of the Phantom 3 Professional User Manual v1.8). I followed this procedure and the insturctions below the diagram, Flight Test - Takeoff/Landing Procedures steps 7 and 8.
DJI implied that I did not fully pull down the left stick before the CSC command. The manual does not say to pull down the left stickfullybefore executing the CSC command. It just says "Method 1: When the Phantom 3 has landed,push the throttle down, then conduct the same CSC that was used to start the motors, as described above..." I pushed the left stick down, but I didn't push it down all the way - only to about ~50% as reflected in the flight log. Nothing is mentioned as to what degree the left stick must be pulled down.

The Flight Test - Takeoff/Landing Procedures steps 7 and 8 (page 46) which are below the "Stopping the Motors" diagram states:

"7. To land, hover over a level surface and gently pulled down on the throttle to descend.
8. After landing, execute the CSC command or hold the throttle at its lowest position until the motors stop."

I followed the above procedures to the letter and the flight log and youtube video reflects this.
In my view, the manual is open to user interpretation on this matter and is not direct in its requirements.


2. Even if the control inputs weren't in dispute, the CSC command failed to stop the motors immediately as mentioned in Method 1 page46 of the User Manual. Instead of shutting the motors down, the aircraft tipped backwards causing the two rear motors to stall. CSC was held after the aircraft tipped and the front motors continued to operate for a few seconds before they stopped. When they did stop, I righted the aircraft and the rear left motor was spinning slowly and started emitting smoke. Also, as soon as the aircraft tipped, a loud screeching noise could be heard and only dissipated when the rear left motors stopped and started emitting smoke. This behaviour goes against what the manual says should happen, and appears to be a fault. I don't expect a tip over event like this to cause a motor burnout in a $1700 aircraft.

Based on my efforts to adhere to the user manual's insturction on how to fly this aircraft, flight logs to verify this, Youtube video (youtubejZ8TGCMISQY) as visual evidence of the faults, and the failures encountered, I do not accept responsibility for the damage to the aircraft.

I am looking forward to DJI's and your response.

Thank you"

might have to take them to court

 

[GadgetGuy]

OK my DJI distributor has resubmitted the warranty claim.

I have also written for documentation purposes an email to them explaining the reasons for my refusal to accept responsibility for the aircraft damage....

"Hi guys

I thought it may be wise to document my warranty rejection dispute so it is recorded and documented.

For the record, this is my arguments for not accepting DJI's ruling on my warranty request.

1. DJI mentions in their response that I did not follow the landing/shutdown procedure in the manual (Method 1, p46 of the Phantom 3 Professional User Manual v1.8). I followed this procedure and the insturctions below the diagram, Flight Test - Takeoff/Landing Procedures steps 7 and 8.
DJI implied that I did not fully pull down the left stick before the CSC command. The manual does not say to pull down the left stickfullybefore executing the CSC command. It just says "Method 1: When the Phantom 3 has landed,push the throttle down, then conduct the same CSC that was used to start the motors, as described above..." I pushed the left stick down, but I didn't push it down all the way - only to about ~50% as reflected in the flight log. Nothing is mentioned as to what degree the left stick must be pulled down.

The Flight Test - Takeoff/Landing Procedures steps 7 and 8 (page 46) which are below the "Stopping the Motors" diagram states:

"7. To land, hover over a level surface and gently pulled down on the throttle to descend.
8. After landing, execute the CSC command or hold the throttle at its lowest position until the motors stop."

I followed the above procedures to the letter and the flight log and youtube video reflects this.
In my view, the manual is open to user interpretation on this matter and is not direct in its requirements.


2. Even if the control inputs weren't in dispute, the CSC command failed to stop the motors immediately as mentioned in Method 1 page46 of the User Manual. Instead of shutting the motors down, the aircraft tipped backwards causing the two rear motors to stall. CSC was held after the aircraft tipped and the front motors continued to operate for a few seconds before they stopped. When they did stop, I righted the aircraft and the rear left motor was spinning slowly and started emitting smoke. Also, as soon as the aircraft tipped, a loud screeching noise could be heard and only dissipated when the rear left motors stopped and started emitting smoke. This behaviour goes against what the manual says should happen, and appears to be a fault. I don't expect a tip over event like this to cause a motor burnout in a $1700 aircraft.

Based on my efforts to adhere to the user manual's insturction on how to fly this aircraft, flight logs to verify this, Youtube video (youtubejZ8TGCMISQY) as visual evidence of the faults, and the failures encountered, I do not accept responsibility for the damage to the aircraft.

I am looking forward to DJI's and your response.

Thank you"

We are behind you 100%!
Just so you know, assuming no other damage, replacement of a single motor and ESC should be under $100, even if they continue to deny your claim. This is certainly not a major repair for this aircraft, but should definitely be covered under warranty, even if only under "good will"!

 

[Flyboy707]

Thanks GG

I will fight this to the end. It's simply not acceptable for this calibre of aircraft. We're just a little north of the toy category

My worry is also about potential battery damage from the high current draw which killed the motor. I would want assurances, or better yet a replacement just incase.
The frame/mount would also have to be replaced due to the heat from the cooked motor melting it.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Thanks GG

I will fight this to the end. It's simply not acceptable for this calibre of aircraft. We're just a little north of the toy category

My worry is also about potential battery damage from the high current draw which killed the motor. I would want assurances, or better yet a replacement just incase.
The frame/mount would also have to be replaced due to the heat from the cooked motor melting it.

You are welcome! Hopefully, it is treated as a DOA, and the dealer is shipped a new aircraft to give to you to replace it. Infant mortality within a week of purchase, like this, is usually handled that way. That's how my first P3P was handled, but that was last year in June, and things have chagrd since then. They are much stricter now, as they also sell DJI Care. Bit of a conflict of interest!

 

[BayouBill]

Well I started a thread on the DJI forum. Here is one response:

"Hey DJI-Paladin - can you help get the manual updated so the csc step is removed from landing? ....
We do appreciate your advice and will pass the suggestion along to the appropriate team.

"

The statement by DJI's response to the OP's request makes no sense: "4) Per our manual as attached we suggest the user lower the throttle stick down to the end to make motors running down then do the CSC command to stop the motors." That sequence is redundant. The motors are already stopped if you throttle down and hold for 3 seconds. The CSC is useless for landing.