Stock P2V 2.7 KM (8,850') Long Range Test

[Pcdeveloper2014]

Re: hello all from Horizon FPV Antennas UK

Will[/quote]

Hi Will, its great to see you here I run your antennas on my FPV power glider setup.. I'm using the blackhawk plus on a myflydream tracker with skew diversity.. I've pushed to 6km with Q4 my nerves run out at this point... Your antennas are great thank you [/quote]


Hi there and thanks for the feedback it is appreciated, only guys like you who use them in the field can say what they perform like.

with support we can develop better antennas and other products like the Phanton 2 vision.

By the way email me and i will give you a privileged code on the store for life your feedback.

 

[PVFlyer]

Re: updates to horizon Phantom 2 kits

Hi again , ni problem I can see what your uop against using such low powers , My sugjestion it to let the antenna do the work for you and try not to introduce and RF amps if you can , less interference also to other user and your health "

Well it had to happen I have now designed a set of antenna s( For both ends of the link) especially for the phantom 2.
I designed a very successful Blackhawk Micro ( just 1 Gram 9db LHCP ) and have had this working at 4km ,

So what i have done now is introduce the 2.4 GHZ version and also make it super light....

see the link here as it so hot odd the press it was only put up an hour ago .

looking at the power on the transmitters with 25 mW we have to introduce some serious gain , recently i got 25 Mw to go 4.6 km using the blackhawk antennas, We are doing a project ( Live event on the BBC ) here that will fly a UAV from the British mainland to an island off shore , around 7.4 km distance , using just the legal power in the UK of 25 mW, see this link for infos on the project, naturally we will be using Horizon FPV antennas ! see :

here is a link to the phantom 2 vision updates....
http://horizonfpvantennas.mybigcommerce.com/phantom-2/


William
HFPV UK

Phantom 2 Vision (P2V) is using reverse frequency band against Phantom 2 (P2) as below.

- (P2V) uses 5.8G for TX control link (vertical polarized) and 2.4G Wifi (TCP/IP network with MIMO) camera/repeater for FPV video link (LHCP). TCP/IP is bi-directional signal/data transfer network, and both ends are TX/RX;
- (P2) uses 2.4G for TX control link and likely DJI 5.8G gears for FPV.

You probably need a separate category for P2V or state clearly which antenna is for what purpose if combining P2V/P2 in the same category. I'm aware of some members could not even distinguish 2.4G or 5.8G SPW, or believe 2.4G and 5.8G is somehow compatible or just with a few -dB lost, etc.

If you complete the design of 2.4G or 5.8G Blackhawk Micro and need a long range P2V test pilot, feel free to let me know.

 

[mr_3_0_5]

Re: Stock P2V 2.27 KM (7,500') & 1.7 KM (5,600') Range Test

I would also be willing to beta test anything you would like
I had another question the Wifi repeater has 100 mw on each channel
Most of us only use one side for external antenna
Can we take the power from both feeds and combine it into one 200 mw output to the external antenna ?
Any boosters that will run off the battery in the repeater ? As to not have to add an additional battery
Like a u-fl y to one rp-Sma would that work?

 

[PVFlyer]

Re: Stock P2V 2.27 KM (7,500') & 1.7 KM (5,600') Range Test

I would also be willing to beta test anything you would like
I had another question the Wifi repeater has 100 mw on each channel
Most of us only use one side for external antenna
Can we take the power from both feeds and combine it into one 200 mw output to the external antenna ?
Any boosters that will run off the battery in the repeater ? As to not have to add an additional battery
Like a u-fl y to one rp-Sma would that work?

You cannot combine the power of MIMO Wifi repeater and feed into one antenna. The stock repeater is probably running on 3.7V Lipo battery like most of cell phone battery. Most of 2.4G Wifi boosters are using 5V, 6V or 12V.

Anyhow, I believe adding Wifi booster on repeater would not help much to your range.

 

[oukenfold]

Re: Stock P2V 2.27 KM (7,500') & 1.7 KM (5,600') Range Test

Pcdeveloper2014

its good to have you here, with us helping in this phanton 2 vision range extend posts, well guys i all ready buy from horizonfpvantennas, hope the are here for next week, to try them, i got the normal antennas build for me in LHCP, but i say normal because this are 11g the CP antenna, to fit on the aircraft, i see that the new ones are like 2g, thats much diference, but now iam using meenwhile, a 8 db tp links antenna on the aircraft, and flys very well, will see whats the performance of the Blackhawk lightweight ( 12 dB).

 

[Pcdeveloper2014]

Re: updates to horizon Phantom 2 kits

Hi again , ni problem I can see what your uop against using such low powers , My sugjestion it to let the antenna do the work for you and try not to introduce and RF amps if you can , less interference also to other user and your health "

Well it had to happen I have now designed a set of antenna s( For both ends of the link) especially for the phantom 2.
I designed a very successful Blackhawk Micro ( just 1 Gram 9db LHCP ) and have had this working at 4km ,

So what i have done now is introduce the 2.4 GHZ version and also make it super light....

see the link here as it so hot odd the press it was only put up an hour ago .

looking at the power on the transmitters with 25 mW we have to introduce some serious gain , recently i got 25 Mw to go 4.6 km using the blackhawk antennas, We are doing a project ( Live event on the BBC ) here that will fly a UAV from the British mainland to an island off shore , around 7.4 km distance , using just the legal power in the UK of 25 mW, see this link for infos on the project, naturally we will be using Horizon FPV antennas ! see :

here is a link to the phantom 2 vision updates....
http://horizonfpvantennas.mybigcommerce.com/phantom-2/


William
HFPV UK

Phantom 2 Vision (P2V) is using reverse frequency band against Phantom 2 (P2) as below.

- (P2V) uses 5.8G for TX control link (vertical polarized) and 2.4G Wifi (TCP/IP network with MIMO) camera/repeater for FPV video link (LHCP). TCP/IP is bi-directional signal/data transfer network, and both ends are TX/RX;
- (P2) uses 2.4G for TX control link and likely DJI 5.8G gears for FPV.

You probably need a separate category for P2V or state clearly which antenna is for what purpose if combining P2V/P2 in the same category. I'm aware of some members could not even distinguish 2.4G or 5.8G SPW, or believe 2.4G and 5.8G is somehow compatible or just with a few -dB lost, etc.

If you complete the design of 2.4G or 5.8G Blackhawk Micro and need a long range P2V test pilot, feel free to let me know.

Hi there , well the designs will be available pretty soon, I would say first batch in about a week.

Ok the other models using things in reverse , the beauty with these antennas is they can be use in both modes it make no difference, having 2.4 GHz for RC control is better as its the power freq so we just change modes of the small antennas.

This is good for the user as the antennas have double the use !.,

Yes we can test them here and will do a full on mod video for you guys to see and make it easy, we can test in the field show the results, a second or third party is also better as its impartial and you can report the results . if you could contact me in email with your details we can arrange a set for Long range testing and all you would need to do is cover the shipping.

Thing are moving quite fast and already guys over there are sending in pre orders. it going to get busy for sure

 

[Pcdeveloper2014]

Re: Stock P2V 2.27 KM (7,500') & 1.7 KM (5,600') Range Test

+1 to PVFlyer

Just tell me what I need that will match the antenna in the camera and will allow me to reach out to where the controller reaches. Then take my money! :lol:

My requirements are the most compact design possible in a featherweight package. Optimally I'd like to attach it directly to the range extender like some have done with a linear omni although have the ability to point it in the direction of the P2V.

Will this work?
http://horizonfpvantennas.mybigcommerce ... y-version/

The only negative I see on the one in the link is the base looks heavy and cumbersome for my application/requirement.

hi the new kit will be light for sure, one antenna fixed to the RC transmitter and another fitted to the range extender.
so you can point the whole lot at the same time.

the UAV will have minimum of two antennas add with the kit , everything you need will be available at sub £100 .

so we are looking this as a super set for the D2V
1 x BH Micro 5.8 with patch cable ( silver plated )
1 x BH Micro 2.4 with patch ( silver plated
1 x Sp 5.8 GHz with patch cable (silver plated)
1 x SP 2.4 GHz with patch cable ( silver plated

this will cover all the signal paths , there can be other variations , like a BH Micro on the Uav INSTEAD of the on SP on 5.8 GHz
this is then in affect a flying beam !! and its using reverse antenna tracking ( devised by me ( GW4LWD )

put a 9 db on EACH end of the links and the RC range goes through the roof !!

so if we assume we have 21 dbM ( 125MW) AT THE uav Then using a 9 db at the tx and 9 db at the RX ( not sure on the receiver sensitivity ) i'll assume -85dBm we can calculate the signal path at around 5.5 KM .... if the batteries last that long.

Power radiated by the antenna would be in the order of 0.95 of a watt or 953 milliwatts !

i have already done 4.6 k on 25 mw using these antennas but put the gain as 12 and 14 dB at each end..

 

[Pcdeveloper2014]

Re: Stock P2V 2.27 KM (7,500') & 1.7 KM (5,600') Range Test

I would also be willing to beta test anything you would like
I had another question the Wifi repeater has 100 mw on each channel
Most of us only use one side for external antenna
Can we take the power from both feeds and combine it into one 200 mw output to the external antenna ?
Any boosters that will run off the battery in the repeater ? As to not have to add an additional battery
Like a u-fl y to one rp-Sma would that work?

You cannot combine the power of MIMO Wifi repeater and feed into one antenna. The stock repeater is probably running on 3.7V Lipo battery like most of cell phone battery. Most of 2.4G Wifi boosters are using 5V, 6V or 12V.

Anyhow, I believe adding Wifi booster on repeater would not help much to your range.

agreed , make the antennas work !

 

[Pcdeveloper2014]

Re: updates to horizon Phantom 2 kits

You probably need a separate category for P2V or state clearly which antenna is for what purpose if combining P2V/P2 in the same category. I'm aware of some members could not even distinguish 2.4G or 5.8G SPW, or believe 2.4G and 5.8G is somehow compatible or just with a few -dB lost, etc.

If you complete the design of 2.4G or 5.8G Blackhawk Micro and need a long range P2V test pilot, feel free to let me know.

Yes advice taken good idea , ill add another category, so we cover both separately.

 

[PVFlyer]

Re: updates to horizon Phantom 2 kits

You probably need a separate category for P2V or state clearly which antenna is for what purpose if combining P2V/P2 in the same category. I'm aware of some members could not even distinguish 2.4G or 5.8G SPW, or believe 2.4G and 5.8G is somehow compatible or just with a few -dB lost, etc.

If you complete the design of 2.4G or 5.8G Blackhawk Micro and need a long range P2V test pilot, feel free to let me know.

Yes advice taken good idea , ill add another category, so we cover both separately.

I also sent a PM to you regarding your website. It seems submitted PM staying in Outbox for several minutes then sent through eventually.

 

[PVFlyer]

1/4 Sphere-like CP Antenna

Hi Will, My assumption is we never fly P2V below us, unless we go to top of a hill and flying down hill.

Apparently, I guess the low gain patch antennas residing in Vision camera RF pattern covering 1/2 sphere (1/2 left & 1/2 right). Both left/right patches in the camera form a 360-degree complete sphere-like RF pattern. Based on the assumption, we waste upper 50% RF power radiating to the sky.

Are you able to design a 1/4 sphere-like CP antenna, while both left/right antennas would then cover 1/2 sphere below P2V. If this is feasible, we can push more RF gain below P2V and eliminate redundant RF radiating to the sky.

On the other hand, I may make a simple reflector covering the camera with aluminium/tin foil.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[Pcdeveloper2014]

Re: 1/4 Sphere-like CP Antenna

Hi Will, My assumption is we never fly P2V below us, unless we go to top of a hill and flying down hill.

Apparently, I guess the low gain patch antennas residing in Vision camera RF pattern covering 1/2 sphere (1/2 left & 1/2 right). Both left/right patches in the camera form a 360-degree complete sphere-like RF pattern. Based on the assumption, we waste upper 50% RF power radiating to the sky.

Are you able to design a 1/4 sphere-like CP antenna, while both left/right antennas would then cover 1/2 sphere below P2V. If this is feasible, we can push more RF gain below P2V and eliminate redundant RF radiating to the sky.

On the other hand, I may make a simple reflector covering the camera with aluminium/tin foil.

Just a few thoughts.

Hi there , well they did a pretty GOOD job AT DJI producing the antennas compact in the camera, when we add a SP for example
the RF pattern will be a big dome under the P2V ( mounted upside down) this does not change from LHCP to RHCP either its still LHCP, I did a video demonstrating this on the channel
A few months ago after looking at the DX8 RC transmitter we measured the output and it showed around 45 mW, so we then did a mod to it ( similar to what we are doing to the P2V) and then re tested , using the exact same BH+ we designed and the range jumped to over 6.4 kM !! thats a record for a DX8 with just 45 mw. see video here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdF8oEsbyJU
we have now redesigned the antenna for the PV2 and P2 , the main thing is reducing the weight mainly the performance is the same.
With the P2 version we can use the BH Micr 2.4 GHz for RC control instead of video and use another channel ( 1.3 ) would be the best bet here ) and then the BH+ 1.3 GHz , that would put the P2 in max range with the only limit is the battery power
Also we did the same thing to the 9X and 9XR with the FRsky ( same antennas again ) and on tests the 9X ( measured at 65mW) went to a range of over 11kM !! that's 2.4 GHz with just 65mW , you can see the actual test here .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcbAVAgjkaY
all this is fact and proven by us in the tests, So transferring the gains to the P2V and the P2 would produce the same results
You are quite correct 'make the rf go where you want it to' instead of out in all directions.
Another technique I devised is call reverse antenna tracking , in this mode a beam like the BH+ say 5.8 GHz is fitted to a copter
and mounted on the camera gimbal , since these hi end hexas have POI ( point of interest) it can work out the direction and angle to point the camera AND the antenna back to the GS, when we combine this with a BH+ at the ground station we have a very very efficient link , using say 12dB on the copter and 14 on the ground would give stunning results. I have tested this and achieved
5k with just 25mW. these work and the FPV community is going to benefit from it and the development on work carried out by Horizon FPV

 

[PVFlyer]

Re: 1/4 Sphere-like CP Antenna

Hi Will, My assumption is we never fly P2V below us, unless we go to top of a hill and flying down hill.

Apparently, I guess the low gain patch antennas residing in Vision camera RF pattern covering 1/2 sphere (1/2 left & 1/2 right). Both left/right patches in the camera form a 360-degree complete sphere-like RF pattern. Based on the assumption, we waste upper 50% RF power radiating to the sky.

Are you able to design a 1/4 sphere-like CP antenna, while both left/right antennas would then cover 1/2 sphere below P2V. If this is feasible, we can push more RF gain below P2V and eliminate redundant RF radiating to the sky.

On the other hand, I may make a simple reflector covering the camera with aluminium/tin foil.

Just a few thoughts.

Hi there , well they did a pretty GOOD job AT DJI producing the antennas compact in the camera, when we add a SP for example
the RF pattern will be a big dome under the P2V ( mounted upside down) this does not change from LHCP to RHCP either its still LHCP, I did a video demonstrating this on the channel
A few months ago after looking at the DX8 RC transmitter we measured the output and it showed around 45 mW, so we then did a mod to it ( similar to what we are doing to the P2V) and then re tested , using the exact same BH+ we designed and the range jumped to over 6.4 kM !! thats a record for a DX8 with just 45 mw. see video here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdF8oEsbyJU
we have now redesigned the antenna for the PV2 and P2 , the main thing is reducing the weight mainly the performance is the same.
With the P2 version we can use the BH Micr 2.4 GHz for RC control instead of video and use another channel ( 1.3 ) would be the best bet here ) and then the BH+ 1.3 GHz , that would put the P2 in max range with the only limit is the battery power
Also we did the same thing to the 9X and 9XR with the FRsky ( same antennas again ) and on tests the 9X ( measured at 65mW) went to a range of over 11kM !! that's 2.4 GHz with just 65mW , you can see the actual test here .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcbAVAgjkaY
all this is fact and proven by us in the tests, So transferring the gains to the P2V and the P2 would produce the same results
You are quite correct 'make the rf go where you want it to' instead of out in all directions.
Another technique I devised is call reverse antenna tracking , in this mode a beam like the BH+ say 5.8 GHz is fitted to a copter
and mounted on the camera gimbal , since these hi end hexas have POI ( point of interest) it can work out the direction and angle to point the camera AND the antenna back to the GS, when we combine this with a BH+ at the ground station we have a very very efficient link , using say 12dB on the copter and 14 on the ground would give stunning results. I have tested this and achieved
5k with just 25mW. these work and the FPV community is going to benefit from it and the development on work carried out by Horizon FPV

We are in Phantom 2 Vision (P2V) forum. I prefer to focus on P2V related matters, instead of sidetracking to DX8, 9X, 9XR, 1.3GHz or even Phantom 2 (non-Vision). The true way to know your antenna range is to test them by flying P2V. Static video range test on the ground (I have seen those range tests in most of your video) may not be applicable on flying P2V.

I was inspired by a FPV/antenna guru. His record is 1mW flying 5.2 KM probably with 1.2GHz or lower frequency that I'm unsure about. P2V has 5.8G 125mW TX in FCC mode, 2.4G 50mW (or higher) MIMO on repeater and 50mW (or higher) MIMO on camera, which I believe good enough for 3-4 KM range on both 2.4G FPV and 5.8G control link with proper antennas setup.

Your devised reverse antenna tracking seems requiring a channel to control it "manually" by TX. If we put it on P2V and yaw 360 (or multiple 360) degree, I'm pretty sure it's hard to point back GS by casual flyers. I also had the idea of "automatic" reverse antenna tracking by a multi-axis gyro and servo. The issue I foresee is yawing multiple 360 degree would twist servo and antenna cable.

 

[gfredrone]

Re: Stock P2V 2.27 KM (7,500') & 1.7 KM (5,600') Range Test

Look at the antenna set up on this guys video. What kind of range do you think he is getting from the 2.4 wifi range extender antenna? I like how it's simple and looks like a compact solution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZlvQ8jQ ... e=youtu.be

 

[mr_3_0_5]

Re: Stock P2V 2.27 KM (7,500') & 1.7 KM (5,600') Range Test

you know i just asked tony that same exact question.
man we think alike. lol

 

[gfredrone]

Re: Stock P2V 2.27 KM (7,500') & 1.7 KM (5,600') Range Test

you know i just asked tony that same exact question.
man we think alike. lol

Let me know what Tony says. Great minds...

 

[Pcdeveloper2014]

Re: 1/4 Sphere-like CP Antenna

perhaps we should move to the general discussion thread.
I only mention other tests like the dx8 as they are proved

since the link is here now user can look as they want to the video.
with the reverse antenna tracking the copter itself rotates to point to the GS and the gimble then tilts to the angle.

this is obviously meant for the hi end copters with plenty off free channels.

one could however have a fixed antenna pointing backwards and fly strait out and back flying backwoods, just to get the max range

 

[Pcdeveloper2014]

Re: 1/4 Sphere-like CP Antenna

The true way to know your antenna range is to test them by flying P2V. Static video range test on the ground (I have seen those range tests in most of your video) may not be applicable on flying P2V.

I was inspired by a FPV/antenna guru. His record is 1mW flying 5.2 KM probably with 1.2GHz or lower frequency that I'm unsure about. P2V has 5.8G 125mW TX in FCC mode, 2.4G 50mW (or higher) MIMO on repeater and 50mW (or higher) MIMO on camera, which I believe good enough for 3-4 KM range on both 2.4G FPV and 5.8G control link with proper antennas setup.

The issue I foresee is yawing multiple 360 degree would twist servo and antenna cable.

In free space it is actually better as there is nothing between you and the copter. Just the weather condition will play a part.

As for the comment ' yawing multiple 360 degree would twist servo and antenna cable'
the copter does the rotation, there is nothing to tangle really.

Ij the case of the P2v we can just add 4 x SP on the two links, not so efficient but better than stock fixed antennas
trouble is most of the energy is warming up the ground !!

 

[FPV col]

Re: Stock P2V 2.27 KM (7,500') & 1.7 KM (5,600') Range Test

Look at the antenna set up on this guys video. What kind of range do you think he is getting from the 2.4 wifi range extender antenna? I like how it's simple and looks like a compact solution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZlvQ8jQ ... e=youtu.be

Looks like cloverleaf on the Tx and also one on the PV.... I'll be interested to know WiFi range ? This guy looks to do some good mods including the €89 brushless gimbal hack

 

[PVFlyer]

Re: Stock P2V 2.27 KM (7,500') & 1.7 KM (5,600') Range Test

Look at the antenna set up on this guys video. What kind of range do you think he is getting from the 2.4 wifi range extender antenna? I like how it's simple and looks like a compact solution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZlvQ8jQ ... e=youtu.be

It looks like a skew planar wheel SPW (maybe cloverleaf CL) antenna on repeater, while the camera antenna seems as stock. I guess the range is about the same as stock, maybe slightly better.

He seems modding 5.8G TX/RX with CL/SPW as well, but I doubt this will help much on the 5.8G control link.

CL/SPW are usually low gain Omni antennas with about 1.0-2.5 dBi gain. It's not for long range, but for 360 degree flying around the pilot. Conventional FPV usually put low gain Omni CL/SPW on aircraft to ensure steady signal transmission in all direction regardless how you yaw/roll the aircraft.