Yeah that's right. I guess we have totally different shooting conditions to each other. Around where I live I want the full overhead sun for maximum colour saturation to make the area look good for tourists etc. Below is a link to what I am talking about. All aerial stuff shot with ND16. I guess I objected to your sweeping statement that ND filters are a waste of time. Newcomers might ditch all ND's after reading that. Whereas they can be useful at times with the "old" P3 and P4 fixed aperture X3.