Phantom 1.1.1 with P2V props - Gain adjustment?

[havasuphoto]

He has an external? dual battery set-up......I guess he's saying 1 of his batteries is too far forward?
I've only seen them along the outside of the landing gear. Either way, the Naza seems to adapt to a pretty wide CG range-but I have no idea where it's documented.
My fear with an extreme forward CG would be a tumble. I've seen video's of Phantoms running into things, tumbling, and righting themselves and not hitting the ground.

 

[mediaguru]

No I have one battery in the bird. I was merely saying I "own" two maddogs...

The only way I've found to fit the maddogs is by putting them in cable first. I'll try it again the other way, just thinking CG.

Took two flights today in very little wind. Much better results and no "jerky" flight. BUT there was some definite drift. When letting go of the controls it keeps drifting in the direction it was heading. If hovering, it inconsistently moves around in about a 10 foot area. With the DJI 2200 lipos I got 6 minutes in the air, probably 5 minutes of usable flight time. With the 2700 maddog I got 9 minutes in the air with about 8 minutes usable flight time.

Because of the drifting, I'm thinking something is not quite right in the gains. I haven't been able to determine if it drifts the same way every time yet.

I also noticed one motor does not idle as fast as the others. Is that a motor going bad or does that matter? Flight seems fine.

 

[havasuphoto]

If you have the Big Battery Door, putting them in tail first won't shift your CG forward enough to even notice. I still plug into the MD with the plug on the right side(as you're looking down on it, twist it once to take up some slack, then just stuff the rest of the wires into the cover when I close it-no problems.

As for your drifting; mine will hold a spot, almost dead on. I noticed that when it was 300+ meters down range, and I pointed the camera straight down(GPS mode of course), and it didn't move. IF, it was drifting in a circle, I would have noticed.
When I bring it back in to hover-it holds position, hands off.

So, the only question I can answer for you is the CG thing with the BBB. No problems.

As for the drift??? Might be a motor? Do you remember what your gains are set at?
There are some gain experts on here that may be able to guide you to which one needs adjusting.

 

[ElGuano]

Lateral drift of 2.5mI and vertical drift of 0.8m during hover are within NAZA specs for GPS mode. I haven't been able to get an unbalanced Phantom to perform worse in hover than a perfectly-balanced one, but the accuracy does vary with total weight and gain settings. One way to check attitude hold with COG is to cut out the GPS - if you can achieve stable hover in ATTI with no wind (or indoors), it's not likely your COG causing the problem (it rarely is).

 

[mediaguru]

Gains have never been touched. Still stock, whatever they came as. Thus, the reason I'm in this thread. With the P2 props and the added weight of the gibmal, cam, and leg extenders, wondering if I should mess with it or if perhaps this is what I've got and don't screw with something which is working okay.

 

[ElGuano]

You have typical phantom additions, probably running around 1150-1200g. You might benefit from adjusting gains, whereas some of the added corrections come from the larger profile of the props and all the stuff hanging off the bottom. If you can film your quad hovering for 30 seconds to a minute in gps with no wind, or indoors, we can give you a good idea of whether your gains are in the ballpark.

 

[mediaguru]

You have typical phantom additions, probably running around 1150-1200g. You might benefit from adjusting gains, whereas some of the added corrections come from the larger profile of the props and all the stuff hanging off the bottom. If you can film your quad hovering for 30 seconds to a minute in gps with no wind, or indoors, we can give you a good idea of whether your gains are in the ballpark.

I'll do that. Great. I have a very inaccurate spring based scale which is showing the bird at a tad under 3 pounds, which is about 1300 grams, though I just lowered the weight a bit. I have a new scale coming and will produce an exact number for weight soon.

Thought also, now that I've extended the landing gear, the compass is about an inch farther away from the body of the bird. Does that matter? Should I move it back up?

 

[havasuphoto]

Gains have never been touched. Still stock, whatever they came as. Thus, the reason I'm in this thread. With the P2 props and the added weight of the gibmal, cam, and leg extenders, wondering if I should mess with it or if perhaps this is what I've got and don't screw with something which is working okay.

I would. Mine is just a bit lighter than yours, and I found it wobbled pretty bad with stock gains. It flew ok.....
I have Basic P/R at 220, Yaw at 175, and vertical/Attitude I left at 100, but may lower that.

do you have the stock remote with the gimbal tilt switch on the back? Turn that off in Naza-M, that way it frees up that X1 channel for you to use to adjust gains. Set it in the middle before making any choices on the gain you want to adjust.
then go to Gains, and from the drop down box, chose X1 for both Pitch and Roll.
Go fly....move the tilt lever up or down, to see what effect it has on the aircraft. When you're satisfied it's good-go hook up to the Laptop and see what the gain value is, and set it to INH.
Repeat for Yaw, and Basic Attitude.
The two bottom ones...I just left at 100 and 100. I think someone says that controls the sensitivity of the remote?

Massive difference between stock gains at 125%, and going over 200%.....the wobble almost complete stopped. I suspect that not enough gain is your problem.

You would think, with 40% more prop, you would want less, not more gain. But, so far in my experimentation, I've found it likes the higher gains.

 

[mediaguru]

Ok I just got a new digital scale which is awesome.

I just weighed the bird.

Full load with Maddog 2700 is 1222 grams.
Full load with DJI 2200 is about 1200 grams.

 

[ElGuano]

I'll do that. Great. I have a very inaccurate spring based scale which is showing the bird at a tad under 3 pounds, which is about 1300 grams, though I just lowered the weight a bit. I have a new scale coming and will produce an exact number for weight soon.

Thought also, now that I've extended the landing gear, the compass is about an inch farther away from the body of the bird. Does that matter? Should I move it back up?

As long as the compass is facing the same direction and sitting straight perpendicular to the ground, its height doesn't matter.

 

[havasuphoto]

Ok I just got a new digital scale which is awesome.

I just weighed the bird.

Full load with Maddog 2700 is 1222 grams.
Full load with DJI 2200 is about 1200 grams.

Wow...that's 70 grams lighter than my pig...I mean Phantom.
I have a digital bathroom scale, and it showed 2.7lbs. So, I think that converted to 1270 grams. You're light.
But, I have the iOSD, and PMU2...along with the Futaba Transmitter inside mine-which you might not have.
Interesting.....the maddog is only 22 grams lighter than stock??!!! Glad I have 5 of them now

 

[mediaguru]

Correct. No FPV or any thing other than the gimbal and leg extensions.

For your enjoyment...

 

[ElGuano]

Ok I just got a new digital scale which is awesome.

I just weighed the bird.

Full load with Maddog 2700 is 1222 grams.
Full load with DJI 2200 is about 1200 grams.

Wow...that's 70 grams lighter than my pig...I mean Phantom.
I have a digital bathroom scale, and it showed 2.7lbs. So, I think that converted to 1270 grams. You're light.
But, I have the iOSD, and PMU2...along with the Futaba Transmitter inside mine-which you might not have.
Interesting.....the maddog is only 22 grams lighter than stock??!!! Glad I have 5 of them now

I didn't make it a point, but my mad dogs are between 201-203g, my DJI 2200s are 173-174, so for me that's 28-31g more. Not a huge difference, but 22g seemed a bit low to me as well.

If you're weighing on a bathroom scale i'd recommend getting a $15 kitchen scale. It should be quite a bit more accurate since the bathroom ones tend to be calibrated for 100-200lb

EDIT: maddogs corroborated by mediaguru! You've got heavy DJIs, man.

 

[mediaguru]

I'm happy to find that my bird is lighter than I thought.

I got this scale for $14.99 at MCM. They billed me for two and sent me two unfortunately... Now I have to go through the inconvenience of sending one back.

 

[ElGuano]

I'm happy to find that my bird is lighter than I thought.

I got this scale for $14.99 at MCM. They billed me for two and sent me two unfortunately... Now I have to go through the inconvenience of sending one back.

The first rule of government spending. Why buy one when you can have two at twice the price?

 

[Jmm_jammy]

it seems this topic has gone slightly off track to the original question,

To those who have a Phantom 1 with P2 props - please can you share your gains and experience with the setup.

Thanks

 

[havasuphoto]

1st post on this page; http://www.phantompilots.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6817&start=100
I'm happy with those gains. Awaiting the return of my Phantom 1 with Phantom 1.1.1 engines, and real vision props.....IF, I need to change anything, I'll report back.

 

[KevinOBrien]

Hi. I have found the white 9" vision 2 self-tightening props, albeit generic ones to be pretty good and rel. well balanced. This is with the stock settings. Their mdowndise is that the tips are fragile and break off easily. So when buying a set, get spares!! I also got some black cf ones that have a similar profile but which need the black and silver nuts to tighten them. I tried a flight without checking if they were balanced, again with stock settings, and the flight was horrible! It wobbled all over the place and couldnt take off but three feet above the ground. The wobbles were in al three axes. I got a DuBro prop balancer and balaced all the props. It took a lot of sanding! Tried a flight today and apart from some odd occasional wobble, the flight was ok, if a little sluggish. Stock gains again. In all flights, nothing extra was added, just the bird and a battery. So, tell me again, why do I need to shoot the up the gains? I assume people are flying with cameras and gimbals and extra stuff on board?

 

[havasuphoto]

I discovered that I needed to up the gains so that Naza would respond faster and with more control authority, automatically, in GPS mode. You can really see it if you have one of your remote channels set to control pitch/roll gain....turn it down to 100% and it starts to wobble....go over 200%, wobble stops. Same with the yaw axis-with the vision props, the aircraft is a sloppy pig with stock gains.
You need to remember that whatever you set as gains, is used by Naza as well, without you moving the controls. At least that's been my understanding/observation.

Even at my higher gain settings-the aircraft is not overly sensitive or twitch, it handles great. Those big props just chew through the air.....nom, nom, nom....

As for the generic NON self-tightening props-out of 8, all of them were out of balance. These were the white plastic ones. I use a Duo Pro balancer.

 

[crashmaniac]

Hello, I am new to here,

I fitted vision props today to my Phantom V.1.1.1

Wow nice running, quite quick too,
A bit noisy though, going to bug my neighbours, lol.

My concern is it doesn't hover as sweet as it did on original props, that being a problem when setting up for still pictures,

it want to oscillate about in a small circle, still stays pointed in the forward position though ?

what to do,

some say adjust the gains, but not sure how or to what setting.

never touched it insides or mind before, I am not a Brain Surgeon either lol

I can only see stuff for phantom 2 ?

any help out there ? PLEASE ?