Phantom 1.1.1 with P2V props - Gain adjustment?

[havasuphoto]

I saw these videos months ago, and am very familiar with them. It's not the nuts-it's the engines.
Version 1.2 has all engines threaded in the same direction. Version 1.1.1 changed the thread pattern of two of the engines-so the threads are self-tightening. I have both engines-but, I want to use the non-self tightening nuts for now.....
as for my thread count....not sure what that has to do with anything.
I try to contribute as much as I can......

1.2 introduced the ccw threaded motors but did not come with self-tightening props. It had standard non-threaded props with separate self-tightening nuts. DJI is so loosey-goosey with versions that some may have shipped differently, but that's the official line.

Yea, I don't have that. I have all 4 nuts, silver.
Also-do any of your Vision props have threads in them??
If they are threaded-I can't use them. The "standard" DJI props that will fit on version 1.0?, have no threads, and a square "key" at the bottom.

I noticed this last night-those props I got, have threads....that does me no good at all.

 

[havasuphoto]

They are threaded. They don't have nuts. They simply screw on the motor, end up stopping right above the rectangular protrusion that holds the locking propellers. And because of the direction they screw, they self-tighten as they rotate. They should fit ANY model except those that do NOT have CW and CCW threading on their motors. That was like v1.0 only I think, or something. v1.1+ should be good. I may be off on my version numbers though.

Yea, I need non-threaded ones. Mine are threaded-so they won't work.
Anyone know of the other props linked here are threaded?

 

[mediaguru]

Hi folks. Been lurking in this thread.

I've flown 3 flights now with my P1.2 with P2 props. I've found no reason so far to change anything as it seems to be flying very well and much more stable. They've also increased my flight times.

Perhaps this is because I'm running a heavy load of 3 pounds, with leg extensions and 3axis gimbal. Perhaps with the high weight load the extra gains are ok.

I haven't tried flying the bird without all the extra stuff.

 

[havasuphoto]

Hi folks. Been lurking in this thread.

I've flown 3 flights now with my P1.2 with P2 props. I've found no reason so far to change anything as it seems to be flying very well and much more stable. They've also increased my flight times.

Perhaps this is because I'm running a heavy load of 3 pounds, with leg extensions and 3axis gimbal. Perhaps with the high weight load the extra gains are ok.

I haven't tried flying the bird without all the extra stuff.

Where did you buy your non-threaded Vision props??!!! I have a bunch here-but all have threads. And, as you know, the 1.2 doesn't have self-tightening anything, all 4 silver nuts tighten in the same direction. Sooooo, I'm looking for Vision props that will work for me.
I've been following your thread(s) on the 3-axis stuff, so I'm aware of your set-up. Just need them props

 

[Ton4]

There must be different 1.2 versions. I have a 1.2 that came with black and white nuts.

 

[havasuphoto]

There must be different 1.2 versions. I have a 1.2 that came with black and white nuts.

Yep.....for the sake is simplicity, let's call mine a version 1.0.

 

[mediaguru]

Hi folks. Been lurking in this thread.

I've flown 3 flights now with my P1.2 with P2 props. I've found no reason so far to change anything as it seems to be flying very well and much more stable. They've also increased my flight times.

Perhaps this is because I'm running a heavy load of 3 pounds, with leg extensions and 3axis gimbal. Perhaps with the high weight load the extra gains are ok.

I haven't tried flying the bird without all the extra stuff.

Where did you buy your non-threaded Vision props??!!! I have a bunch here-but all have threads. And, as you know, the 1.2 doesn't have self-tightening anything, all 4 silver nuts tighten in the same direction. Sooooo, I'm looking for Vision props that will work for me.
I've been following your thread(s) on the 3-axis stuff, so I'm aware of your set-up. Just need them props

I'm wondering about my bird actually. On the box is says "Version 1.2" but the bird itself has the black and silver caps for the props. The stock vision threaded props install perfectly.

Maybe I'm looking at the wrong thing? Or do I have a "rare bird" haha. Pun intended.

 

[ElGuano]

No yours is the official 1.2. That is the one that introduced the ccw threads, but it did not come self-tightening props, only self-tightening nuts. There are rolling update though some some shipments are different with the same version number.

 

[havasuphoto]

No yours is the official 1.2. That is the one that introduced the ccw threads, but it did not come self-tightening props, only self-tightening nuts. There are rolling update though some some shipments are different with the same version number.

Which engines have the black nuts, and which have the silver?

I have all four silver nuts-and am looking high and low for Vision props, without any threads...just like the original standard Phantom props, version 1.0.

 

[ElGuano]

No yours is the official 1.2. That is the one that introduced the ccw threads, but it did not come self-tightening props, only self-tightening nuts. There are rolling update though some some shipments are different with the same version number.

Which engines have the black nuts, and which have the silver?

I have all four silver nuts-and am looking high and low for Vision props, without any threads...just like the original standard Phantom props, version 1.0.

I don't have my ccw phantom anymore so I'll have to let someone else answer that . Bummer that your props came with threads though, the ones I got were advertised as non-self-tightening and came with pics showing the unthreaded, square-keyed hubs.

 

[havasuphoto]

No yours is the official 1.2. That is the one that introduced the ccw threads, but it did not come self-tightening props, only self-tightening nuts. There are rolling update though some some shipments are different with the same version number.

Which engines have the black nuts, and which have the silver?

I have all four silver nuts-and am looking high and low for Vision props, without any threads...just like the original standard Phantom props, version 1.0.

I don't have my ccw phantom anymore so I'll have to let someone else answer that . Bummer that your props came with threads though, the ones I got were advertised as non-self-tightening and came with pics showing the unthreaded, square-keyed hubs.

Problem solved!! I think......I was able to force one of the props onto an engine I had spare. My props do not have threads!!!
Yay, me!!!
So, looks like I'm "back in the game" so too speak. Bummer though, because I've already scheduled myself out for some stuff Tomorrow(and it will be Windy), so I won't be able to do any testing for a few days.
But, I'm thinking of starting everything off at 100%, except the yaw, which I'll set at 175%. I'll set X1 to Attitude first, then do Pitch/Roll, and last will be yaw.
I want the gains to be "pre-set" to I can at least control the aircraft.....so, I'm thinking lower my stock settings, may be a good idea??

 

[ElGuano]

Great news re the props. Personally, I would never schedule a real flight with new props. My first hour is always direct tinkering: seeing if it tips on takeoff in the backyard or living room, and whether it hovers well 2-3ft off the ground. Then I have a single gain tied to x1 and try to find a setting that works. Adjust each gain in turn and when it seems to behaving well generally, test stability with dynamic motion and descent.

Startling with lower gains is fine, there's probably a wide range where they'll be fine. What I try to do is find the limits.

 

[havasuphoto]

Great news re the props. Personally, I would never schedule a real flight with new props. My first hour is always direct tinkering: seeing if it tips on takeoff in the backyard or living room, and whether it hovers well 2-3ft off the ground. Then I have a single gain tied to x1 and try to find a setting that works. Adjust each gain in turn and when it seems to behaving well generally, test stability with dynamic motion and descent.

Startling with lower gains is fine, there's probably a wide range where they'll be fine. What I try to do is find the limits.

I'm not scheduling any real flights with these-I have other things I do.
These will be tested at a local park up the street, that had grass. That way, if it tips off the helipad, or is too uncontrollable to land back on it, I can safely land it in the grass.
I think starting with "softer" gain values will allow me to experiment more. The aircraft may respond like a pig...but, I'd rather tame a wild pig, than a wild horse......

And, how I got the props on was this; I notice no threads, and a square "key"...so, I just lined up that key, and pushed, wiggled until they slid on. They're a tight fit-which is good.

 

[havasuphoto]

They almost seem too thin......just wondering what those with Genuine Vision Props, have for thickness at the ends?? They seem very bendy......

They are pretty thin. I'm sure they are genuine. They are flexible, light, and thin. Well, not 100% sure, but if they fly, they work.

Here is a quick screenshot of my gain settings for these larger props. I'm still not 100% satisfied, but getting closer. Basically, the lower they are, the more slowly it will move/respond to controls, whether automated or manual. They also affect the max 'tilt' that you would see while moving. Eltoro explained it all much better.

Sorry for the font size, the DJI Assistant software doesn't properly adhere to Win8 desktop scaling.

Are you adjusting your gains with the remote, while in flight? Or are you just putting in numbers, trying it, then raising/lowering according to observations?

 

[ElGuano]

With the remote. It's the only way to test ( less running back to the PC)

 

[havasuphoto]

Went to the local park and tested Today. Unfortunately, we had some wind-about 10mph.
I started with the stock gain settings, with my VR knob set to X1-Vertical. Lifted off, and the aircraft flew fine-no surprises, and not even that sensitive.
I turned the gain knob back and fourth, and settled in on 115% Vertical-not sure what I was looking for, but that looked good enough to me. Didn't see any big changes.

Next was Basic P/R. The aircraft has a wobble-so I turned the knob both directions, and maxed it out at 220%. Still had a wobble-so I punched in 230%....still have a wobble in a hover. Lower gains seemed to be just as bad.

Then went to Basic Yaw...set it at 200%. I found that the lower settings the yaw was very lazy, and I wanted a much more precise yaw. So I flew it around, and it still wasn't enough-so I manually entered 230%, and called it good.

Attitude P/R-still had the wobble, turned the knob back and fourth, and surprisingly, I ended up with a setting I liked, and it was exactly 100%-very hard to nail that with the VR knob-because it's very sensitive.
So, I'm good with the Attitude settings. And, I did flip the switch to Attitude mode.

BUT-it still wobbles in a hover. It holds position though. It also wobbles a bit in forward flight.

So, which adjustment should I work on, to reduce or get rid of the Wobble? Is my Basic P/R too high??

I was going to test more-but called it on account of the wind. It was a good 10mph-and even though the aircraft was directly into the wind, it wasn't really helping me.
Now that I know I can easily T/O and land from my helipad-I'll go out to my "secret spot", where there are no Dogs or people, and I can fly longer distances, free from tree's and other "hazards".

I did manage to get 7:14 out of a stock DJI battery that was at 98%, 12.53 volts when I put it in-so maybe a bit less when I took off. That's 2 minutes more. But, I was just hovering.

Also-before(with stock props), the aircraft lifted off the pad at 1 notch above 50% throttle-sometimes 2 notches. Now, it lifts off at below 50% throttle. So, I'm thinking maybe I need to work on the vertical some more??

And, I checked the prop nuts when I got back, and was able to tighten them just a bit more. I wouldn't call them loose...but, they weren't as tight as I liked them either. This is something I will be keeping an eye on.

Need Wobble help!!

 

[ElGuano]

Vertical doesn't affect your takeoff throttle response, just hover characteristic. You really just need to set it high enough so it doesn't drift up and down more than a few feet in hover (this isn't the one to spend a lot of time fine tuning).

I think you know, but it'a hard to tell reading--attitude gains isn't the same as attitude mode. Attitude gains just mean "springiness on stick input," and it impacts gps mode. It's how hard the phantom tries to maintain the pitch/roll rate being requested by the tx.

Testing in wind is tough. It's usually the last test I do just to control variables. As you mentioned, there will be sharp attitude corrections in wind; and gains are not meant to eliminate those, but you can test the outer envelope of response in conditions like stronger wind, and it's good to do so before any major flights, especially if any of the gains are over 230-ish.

 

[havasuphoto]

OK-still confuse.
The hard part was, when I was making changes, I was saying to myself; did the wind just do that, or the VR knob. You can turn it through a 100% change, and see very little happening to the aircraft.

what does concern me, is the inability to get rid of the wobble. Even air taxing backwards away from the wind-to negate it's effects, I still had a wobble. I understand how the aircraft moves when it's correcting for the wind-and this was definitely above and beyond the normal movements.

As for stick response-I'm satisfied with the response, and was even before making any adjustments.
I'm thinking maybe I'll work more on Pitch and Roll basic??
What does Attitude Pitch and Roll do? Maybe I'm tuning the wrong one to get rid of the wobble.

I really don't want to go past 230%....as, I've not seen anyone go higher than that. So, perhaps I need to slow things down a bit?

EDIT: 1 more thing; each time I plugged a battery in, I would get 1 beep, followed by the normal series of beeps. What's up with that?? I had the gimbal disable so I could use the VR knob for X1. when I re-enabled the gimbal for flight testing, it didn't do the single beep followed by the series of beeps.

 

[havasuphoto]

I've thought about this overnight, and am getting ready to go out and test. Zero wind...but, it might rain.
I'm going to set my VR knob all the way to the right(230), on the Basic P/R setting-so I will only be testing lower gains. IF, I can't sort it out below 90%, I'll need to reset at around 125, and separate the pitch from the roll, and adjust each individually.

Does anyone have any experience adjust the p/r separately?

 

[ElGuano]

Sometimes I get the single beep before the ascending scale, sometimes not. I just figured it was a power/timing thing, dunno if it signifies anything. It's generally OK to test pitch/roll together, since you normally want them the same/close; I wouldn't do more than two. But I usually separate and test each one separately just cause.