New to Drones and thinking about Range Extender

I looked on ebay and saw a Range extender that was a ARG Tek for my DJI Phantom 3 Standard and I'm not sure if its worth it ? I also saw a Parabolic one that hooks to the antenna not to sure if that will add as much range as Im looking for ? If anyone has any of these I would like some input on them Thank You ....

I bought and fitted the ARG Tek Range extender, and VERY VERY disappointed in the very minor range increase (horizontally) and vertically notice NO INCREASE AT ALL! (Have tried both long antennas AND the 2 'square' ones; no difference!
Bought it because everyone raves about them, but for me; distance is STILL garbage! (and I've even run the booster mod for controller - no better)
 
Honest i sure would have to hate to pull it all apart again Big Sigh !........cut the sealer off the antennas that secured the wires then Unsolder them and pull the antenna mount off and solder the original wires back on and re hot glue them back on to look like nothing ever happened .and put it all back together and drop the RC unit in a box and send it back to Dji.....as for as me i recon i'm different.......>>>>> I'm happy the way it came out of the box period <<<<<< ! I can only imagine.....theirs more like me but don't want to speak UP... ! some people just have to tinker around with things i guess and yep..Dji might send it back and say your warranty is No good !.....i'm sure they have record of whats going on here on this site ! good luck to all you that change n modify things under warranty !

It's not hard - just fiddly. (Good eyesight is a bonus!)
NO unsoldering to do! Once you get silicone off the 3 antenna connectors, they pull off (be gentle) and new ones snap on.
You CAn keep the 2 original square ones inside the case - removing them has no benefits.
Having SAID that; please see my latest comment here - gain for ME is hardly worth mentioning; wasted Au$74 imho!
 
HI all .. is this statement correct :

The best signal booster is a high gain antenna.

To double the range you need 4 times the transmitter power. That much power causes all kinds if problems especially with small quads. So if you are running 600mw you will need 2.4 watt for twice the range and 9.6 watt to get 4 times the range. Both are more than the legal power for that band. Maximum transmitter output power, fed into the antenna, is 30 dBm (1 watt).
An additional 6 db antenna gain will also get you double the range. 12 db will get you 4 times the range. So you see that's a much better solution and you don't have all the headaches of using a high powered transmitter.
 
HI all .. is this statement correct :

The best signal booster is a high gain antenna.

To double the range you need 4 times the transmitter power. That much power causes all kinds if problems especially with small quads. So if you are running 600mw you will need 2.4 watt for twice the range and 9.6 watt to get 4 times the range. Both are more than the legal power for that band. Maximum transmitter output power, fed into the antenna, is 30 dBm (1 watt).
An additional 6 db antenna gain will also get you double the range. 12 db will get you 4 times the range. So you see that's a much better solution and you don't have all the headaches of using a high powered transmitter.

You could always hook it up to a big generator and a couple of linear amplifiers lol.

... at the end of the day people often forget - you can have all the transmit power you like, but if the receiver (drone in this case) has a shitty antenna - it's not necessarily going to receive it at the other end any better...
 
How much higher gain antennas, or an amplifier, help with range depends on a lot of factors. It isn't generally true that an additional 6 dB antenna gain will give you double the range. Let me explain. (I have a P3 4K but the same applies to the P3 Standard.)

First of all consider the 5.8GHz control signal side. This is one way from the RC to the drone. So your control range depends on two things being true: there is enough RF power from the RC reaching the 5.8GHz drone antennas for it to detect the signal, and the noise floor at the drone is low enough to decode the signal. There is nothing you can do about the noise floor on the drone side (without modifying the drone) - the drone has omni antennas. So it is really just about the RF power at the drone. There are two ways to increase this - add antenna gain on the RC side, or add power (using an amplifier) on the RC side. In both cases 6 dBi gain (either via an antenna or via an amplifier) will roughly double your control distance.

On the 2.4GHz video downlink side, things are more complicated. This is one way from the drone to the RC (not technically true, but good enough for this discussion). Again the video downlink range depends on two things being true: there is enough RF power from the drone reaching the 2.4GHz RC antennas for it to detect the signal, and the noise floor at the RC is low enough to decode the signal. In this case, there is nothing you can do to change the RF power from the drone reaching the RC. An amplifier will have some level of receive gain (usually 12 dBi or thereabouts) but this will amplify the noise as well as the signal, so amplifiers will only help if the signal is low but the noise is also low. This will typically be the case if for example you are flying in a rural environment with very little ambient RF noise, but in an urban environment where you are noise limited an amplifier will likely not help at all. Note that the transmit gain of the amplifier really has no impact here, because the video downlink is from the drone to the RC. This is why people see very little difference on the downlink side whether they are using a 1W or 4W amplifier. However the antenna gain is important. A 6 dBi antenna gain means not just that the transmission cone is shrunk by 4X in volume (so you get 4X more power at a given point within the cone - i.e. twice the distance - vs. an isotropic emitter but again this isn't important for the video downlink) but also that the receive cone is shrunk by 4X in volume. This means that (assuming the noise is isotropic, i.e. equal in all directions) your received signal level won't increase, but the noise level will drop by 4X. So again if you are flying in open environments, a 6 dBi antenna gain may double your video downlink distance. But in an urban environment, if the drone is flying near a bunch of RF sources (like wi-fi hotspots), if you are aiming the RC towards the drone the antenna is also capturing the RF noise from those hotspots. So the noise level may drop by much less than 4X, or not at all. So you will see much less than a doubling in distance.

So in summary: for the control link, 6 dBi on the antenna or the amp will usually double your distance in any environment. For the video link, 6 dBi on the amp will probably do very little, and 6 dBi on the antenna will double your distance in an open environment but may do very little in an RF-congested (urban) environment.

My own set-up is a Phantom 3 4K. Stock I could get about 2000ft in an open environment. With the ARGtek mod (two 7dBi 2.4GHz panels, one 10 dBi 5.8GHz omni) I can get about 6000ft in an open environment. With two 3W 2.4GHz Sunhans amplifiers and one 4W REXUAV 5.8GHz amplifier, I can get about 17000ft in an open environment. So the amplifiers help a lot, because I am signal limited rather than noise limited.

In an urban environment the distance gains are much smaller. Stock I could get about 1000ft, with ARGtek around 2500ft and with the amplifiers around 3500ft. So the amplifiers help very little, because I am noise limited rather than signal limited. But it's very variable.

The great thing about the ARGtek set-up is not necessarily that the ARGtek antennas are particularly great, but that without destroying the controller you get 3 SMA antenna connectors that you can place whatever antennas you want on, so you can very quickly do experiments. I've ordered a bunch of different antennas and will be testing them at some point to see how they work vs. the standard ARGtek antennas.

Sorry for the length of this. It's a complicated topic. Hope this helps someone.

-Adrian
 
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And by the way while people are talking about legality (kevinp3s), 6 dBi gain on the antenna is just as illegal as 6 dBi on the amplifier if it puts you over 30 dBm EIRP (the FCC limit). Legal limits are defined in terms of EIRP (equivalent isotropically radiated power), which includes both the antenna gain and the RF power.

And so it should - if you are at point X in space and you can't use your wi-fi router because your noise floor is too high due to someone's drone transmitter, it makes no difference whether that noise floor is too high because the drone pilot is using a high gain antenna, or because they are using a high-power amp.

-Adrian
 
How much higher gain antennas, or an amplifier, help with range depends on a lot of factors. It isn't generally true that an additional 6 dB antenna gain will give you double the range. Let me explain. (I have a P3 4K but the same applies to the P3 Standard.)

First of all consider the 5.8GHz control signal side. This is one way from the RC to the drone. So your control range depends on two things being true: there is enough RF power from the RC reaching the 5.8GHz drone antennas for it to detect the signal, and the noise floor at the drone is low enough to decode the signal. There is nothing you can do about the noise floor on the drone side (without modifying the drone) - the drone has omni antennas. So it is really just about the RF power at the drone. There are two ways to increase this - add antenna gain on the RC side, or add power (using an amplifier) on the RC side. In both cases 6 dBi gain (either via an antenna or via an amplifier) will roughly double your control distance.

On the 2.4GHz video downlink side, things are more complicated. This is one way from the drone to the RC (not technically true, but good enough for this discussion). Again the video downlink range depends on two things being true: there is enough RF power from the drone reaching the 2.4GHz RC antennas for it to detect the signal, and the noise floor at the RC is low enough to decode the signal. In this case, there is nothing you can do to change the RF power from the drone reaching the RC. An amplifier will have some level of receive gain (usually 12 dBi or thereabouts) but this will amplify the noise as well as the signal, so amplifiers will only help if the signal is low but the noise is also low. This will typically be the case if for example you are flying in a rural environment with very little ambient RF noise, but in an urban environment where you are noise limited an amplifier will likely not help at all. Note that the transmit gain of the amplifier really has no impact here, because the video downlink is from the drone to the RC. This is why people see very little difference on the downlink side whether they are using a 1W or 4W amplifier. However the antenna gain is important. A 6 dBi antenna gain means not just that the transmission cone is shrunk by 4X in volume (so you get 4X more power at a given point within the cone - i.e. twice the distance - vs. an isotropic emitter but again this isn't important for the video downlink) but also that the receive cone is shrunk by 4X in volume. This means that (assuming the noise is isotropic, i.e. equal in all directions) your received signal level won't increase, but the noise level will drop by 4X. So again if you are flying in open environments, a 6 dBi antenna gain may double your video downlink distance. But in an urban environment, if the drone is flying near a bunch of RF sources (like wi-fi hotspots), if you are aiming the RC towards the drone the antenna is also capturing the RF noise from those hotspots. So the noise level may drop by much less than 4X, or not at all. So you will see much less than a doubling in distance.

So in summary: for the control link, 6 dBi on the antenna or the amp will usually double your distance in any environment. For the video link, 6 dBi on the amp will probably do very little, and 6 dBi on the antenna will double your distance in an open environment but may do very little in an RF-congested (urban) environment.

My own set-up is a Phantom 3 4K. Stock I could get about 2000ft in an open environment. With the ARGtek mod (two 7dBi 2.4GHz panels, one 10 dBi 5.8GHz omni) I can get about 6000ft in an open environment. With two 3W 2.4GHz Sunhans amplifiers and one 4W REXUAV 5.8GHz amplifier, I can get about 17000ft in an open environment. So the amplifiers help a lot, because I am signal limited rather than noise limited.

In an urban environment the distance gains are much smaller. Stock I could get about 1000ft, with ARGtek around 2500ft and with the amplifiers around 3500ft. So the amplifiers help very little, because I am noise limited rather than signal limited. But it's very variable.

The great thing about the ARGtek set-up is not necessarily that the ARGtek antennas are particularly great, but that without destroying the controller you get 3 SMA antenna connectors that you can place whatever antennas you want on, so you can very quickly do experiments. I've ordered a bunch of different antennas and will be testing them at some point to see how they work vs. the standard ARGtek antennas.

Sorry for the length of this. It's a complicated topic. Hope this helps someone.

-Adrian
 
AWESOME explanations Adrian! Thanks!

Personally I was unaware that amplifiers were available - I can only assume you're talking about internal modifications of the circuitry?

One further drone tech video I plan on doing on my YouTube channel, is let's say; an 'expose' on antennas vs stock; as from my initial investigation visually, (I will compare this with exact measurements) all the square antennas of the ARG do, is take the internal ones and put an external version there; but it's still encased in plastic! so more or less defeating the purpose I would have thought?!

If you look with a strong light source behind them, they are only a small square piece of metal - the same as inside the stock controller... as for the vertical antennas - that is as yet and undecided Factor. I have found 0 difference between the square ones and long ones personally...
 
Great! Took it up yesterday to try another “before” flight and ended up filming deer instead.



Nice capture. Did you know the deer were there already or did you spot them live view while flying?

I know I never would've been able to pick them out live. But I'm using a Galaxy phone to run DJI Go on. I'm sure a tablet would be a nice improvement. Adding the Inspire holder is the next mod I'm looking to do.

And the Itelite mod gave me a very noticeable range improvement. I think you'll like it.
 
So you really need to do a more complex mod to bring that 2.4ghz antenna outside of the controller. I recommend the ITELITE DBS antenna mod.

Good luck.
As I've mentioned elsewhere isn't all we're doing with external antennas is taking the inbuilt antenna surrounded by plastic, and using an external antenna also surrounded by plastic? I have found virtually 0 difference using the ARG, at least...
 
smackc4 - amplifiers are available for the RC. You can find (for example) the Sunhans amplifiers, which are quite good, at rexuav.com. You will need to do a "home brew" style modification to mount them to your RC ... a good way is on a plastic plate which sits under the RC so it is still holdable. You run SMA cables from the ARGtek mount ports to the amplifiers, and then connect the antennas to the amplifiers. You'll also need some kind of battery to power the amplifiers. Under the right circumstances amplifiers can make a significant difference. There is lots of stuff on the forum here from people who have done this.

I'm not familiar with the exact construction of the internal 2.4GHz panel antennas in the P3S RC since I have a P34K. Generally though panel (patch) antennas are indeed "just" a small square piece of metal. Larger dimensions give narrower beamwidth and hence greater gains ... so you will probably find that the ARGtek panel antennas use a larger piece of metal than the internal antennas in the P3S RC.

The P34K RC does not have the internal 2.4GHz panels in the RC that the P3S has - instead it has 2 external omni antennas. There are 3 internal uFL connectors inside the P34K remote (just like the P3S) - one 5.8GHz and two 2.4GHz. The 5.8GHz and one of the 2.4GHz goes to the left omni antenna (which is dual band). The other 2.4GHz goes to the right omni antenna. Two antennas are used at 2.4GHz for diversity (Google it!). Typical "omni" whip antennas like the ones supplied with the P34K remote will have a gain of 2 dB-ish, so the ARGtek 7 dBi panels should increase the range in an open environment by almost double on that basis - and indeed they do!

You can find a great antenna guide here: Antenna Patterns and Their Meaning

-Adrian
 
smackc4 - amplifiers are available for the RC. You can find (for example) the Sunhans amplifiers, which are quite good, at rexuav.com. You will need to do a "home brew" style modification to mount them to your RC ... a good way is on a plastic plate which sits under the RC so it is still holdable. You run SMA cables from the ARGtek mount ports to the amplifiers, and then connect the antennas to the amplifiers. You'll also need some kind of battery to power the amplifiers. Under the right circumstances amplifiers can make a significant difference. There is lots of stuff on the forum here from people who have done this.

I'm not familiar with the exact construction of the internal 2.4GHz panel antennas in the P3S RC since I have a P34K. Generally though panel (patch) antennas are indeed "just" a small square piece of metal. Larger dimensions give narrower beamwidth and hence greater gains ... so you will probably find that the ARGtek panel antennas use a larger piece of metal than the internal antennas in the P3S RC.

The P34K RC does not have the internal 2.4GHz panels in the RC that the P3S has - instead it has 2 external omni antennas. There are 3 internal uFL connectors inside the P34K remote (just like the P3S) - one 5.8GHz and two 2.4GHz. The 5.8GHz and one of the 2.4GHz goes to the left omni antenna (which is dual band). The other 2.4GHz goes to the right omni antenna. Two antennas are used at 2.4GHz for diversity (Google it!). Typical "omni" whip antennas like the ones supplied with the P34K remote will have a gain of 2 dB-ish, so the ARGtek 7 dBi panels should increase the range in an open environment by almost double on that basis - and indeed they do!

You can find a great antenna guide here: Antenna Patterns and Their Meaning

-Adrian
Awesome mate - will definitely look into those amplifiers! Thanks
 
smackc4 - amplifiers are available for the RC. You can find (for example) the Sunhans amplifiers, which are quite good, at rexuav.com. You will need to do a "home brew" style modification to mount them to your RC ... a good way is on a plastic plate which sits under the RC so it is still holdable. You run SMA cables from the ARGtek mount ports to the amplifiers, and then connect the antennas to the amplifiers. You'll also need some kind of battery to power the amplifiers. Under the right circumstances amplifiers can make a significant difference. There is lots of stuff on the forum here from people who have done this.

I'm not familiar with the exact construction of the internal 2.4GHz panel antennas in the P3S RC since I have a P34K. Generally though panel (patch) antennas are indeed "just" a small square piece of metal. Larger dimensions give narrower beamwidth and hence greater gains ... so you will probably find that the ARGtek panel antennas use a larger piece of metal than the internal antennas in the P3S RC.

The P34K RC does not have the internal 2.4GHz panels in the RC that the P3S has - instead it has 2 external omni antennas. There are 3 internal uFL connectors inside the P34K remote (just like the P3S) - one 5.8GHz and two 2.4GHz. The 5.8GHz and one of the 2.4GHz goes to the left omni antenna (which is dual band). The other 2.4GHz goes to the right omni antenna. Two antennas are used at 2.4GHz for diversity (Google it!). Typical "omni" whip antennas like the ones supplied with the P34K remote will have a gain of 2 dB-ish, so the ARGtek 7 dBi panels should increase the range in an open environment by almost double on that basis - and indeed they do!

You can find a great antenna guide here: Antenna Patterns and Their Meaning

-Adrian
...I used to make many various antennas decades ago in my CB radio days - was fun found some interesting results.

I HAD recently contemplated experimenting with different antennas on the drone itself, until I realised what a major operation it was to access them - so I shelved that idea! lol
 
The drone really needs omni antennas because the drone can be in any orientation relative to the RC (in yaw) and it really needs isotropic antennas because the drone can be anywhere above or below the RC. So the supplied antennas in the drone legs (2 dBi omnis) are probably as good as you can get: on the RC you have flexibility, because you can easily point the RC at the drone while you are flying, but the drone can be pointing in any direction.

The way to make a huge difference to range on the video downlink is to keep the drone antennas as they are, but add amplifiers to the 2.4GHz radio in the drone. This gets round the signal vs. noise issue at long range that happens with RC-side amps that I talked about earlier. This wouldn't be rocket science to do - the 2.4GHz transmitters are in the gimbal unit, and you can get to the internal uFL connectors without taking apart the body of the drone. You would need the right leads with the right connectors and an amplifier mounted somewhere convenient, and a tap from the drone battery to power the amplifier.

I'm not aware of anyone on the forums who has done this, probably because (1) messing with the drone is more expensive if something goes wrong, (2) because at that point you might as well buy a P3P or P3A or P4 with longer range, cost-wise. But it can certainly be done - not rocket science.

-Adrian
 
The drone really needs omni antennas because the drone can be in any orientation relative to the RC (in yaw) and it really needs isotropic antennas because the drone can be anywhere above or below the RC. So the supplied antennas in the drone legs (2 dBi omnis) are probably as good as you can get: on the RC you have flexibility, because you can easily point the RC at the drone while you are flying, but the drone can be pointing in any direction.

The way to make a huge difference to range on the video downlink is to keep the drone antennas as they are, but add amplifiers to the 2.4GHz radio in the drone. This gets round the signal vs. noise issue at long range that happens with RC-side amps that I talked about earlier. This wouldn't be rocket science to do - the 2.4GHz transmitters are in the gimbal unit, and you can get to the internal uFL connectors without taking apart the body of the drone. You would need the right leads with the right connectors and an amplifier mounted somewhere convenient, and a tap from the drone battery to power the amplifier.

I'm not aware of anyone on the forums who has done this, probably because (1) messing with the drone is more expensive if something goes wrong, (2) because at that point you might as well buy a P3P or P3A or P4 with longer range, cost-wise. But it can certainly be done - not rocket science.

-Adrian
I'm with you mate, and it's actually for that reason in reverse that I'm only going to use my Omni antennas on the controller from now on, because unless you're flying pretty close in, it's quite easy to lose visual contact with the drone in reality, and you don't particularly know where the hell it is! so therefore can't point at it... I think the odds are better if you can at least guarantee an omnidirectional signal, because the **** thing may be behind you for all you know lol

Personally - my main objective is distance rather than visible control; if I set the Gimbal at a reasonable angle, I know I'll get some good footage... as for the rest of the modifications - absolutely correct!
Merely upgrading to something that at least relies on a radio signal rather than Wi-Fi, has to be in major advantage!
 
If your main objective is distance, you don't need to worry about the antennas at all. Just use Litchi in waypoint mode and create some long flight legs, and trust that the drone will come back to you. You may feel uneasy at first (since you will likely lose both control and video during the flight) but I have done many of these kinds of flights and it is quite reliable.

If you want both distance and visual control (which I assume you mean control with a working video downlink) like I do, then do not be afraid to use the panel antennas. A 7 dBi panel antenna will give you a full beam width of greater than 90 degrees. Think about it like this: if the drone is 10,000ft away, with a 90 degree beam width you could point the remote control at a point 5,000 ft away from the drone and still get signal. And you always know where it is! In the Litchi app you can see where the drone is on a map. You can set the map so that the "up" direction is always towards the drone. Since the app draws a line from you to the drone, as you fly you can just rotate yourself slightly to keep the line pointing straight up, guaranteeing you are pointing at the drone. Again, this works great. I've done all sorts of complicated and long flights in all directions around me, at significant distance, under visual control and have never unexpectedly lost signal due to pointing in the wrong direction. (And by the way if the drone is close by, it will get signal even if you are not pointing the RC at it - all antennas, and even the SMA cables between the RC and the antennas, are leaky enough that you will get some emission in all directions.)

I believe that, in terms of performance value for money, you cannot get much better than something like my system, which is an otherwise stock P3 4K with panel antennas and amplifiers added to the RC. The P3 4K can now be had for around $450, and all the antenna/amplifier modifications I've made to the RC came to under $200 in total. Compared with a P4 Pro for twice that budget, I get greater range, comparable flight time, and very similar video quality.

-Adrian
 
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The P34K RC does not have the internal 2.4GHz panels in the RC that the P3S has - instead it has 2 external omni antennas. There are 3 internal uFL connectors inside the P34K remote (just like the P3S) - one 5.8GHz and two 2.4GHz. The 5.8GHz and one of the 2.4GHz goes to the left omni antenna (which is dual band). The other 2.4GHz goes to the right omni antenna. Two antennas are used at 2.4GHz for diversity (Google it!). Typical "omni" whip antennas like the ones supplied with the P34K remote will have a gain of 2 dB-ish, so the ARGtek 7 dBi panels should increase the range in an open environment by almost double on that basis - and indeed they do!
-Adrian

Just one question mate; Why DOES the P3S have 2 x 2.4GHz antennae?
Does it ALSO have a dual band antenna?
 
smackc4 - it has two 2.4GHz antennas for diversity (just like your home Wi-Fi router). In very simple terms both try to receive the signal - the one receiving the strongest signal wins. (Actually it is much more clever than that, but that explanation will do.) This helps maintain signal integrity when reception gets weak.

It does not need two 5.8GHz antennas because the RC is transmit only on 5.8GHz.

The P3S does not have a dual band antenna. The stick antenna coming out of the front of the RC is the 5.8GHz control antenna. The panels inside are the 2.4GHz video antennas.

-Adrian
 
wow thanks for the detailed feedback ....so if I want have better control signal ...I lose control ie the drone RTH before I lose video...the cheapest mod would be to change the 5.8 ghz antenna with a higher dbi eg a 7dbi...but would it be a panel or omni?
 

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