Mid-Flight Changes to Litchi Waypoint Missions

[Don Barar]

John:

With all do respect I think you are wrong. Why push a mechanical switch when you can select a software switch. If the software switch fails, I can alway resort to the mechanical one. Is that not how RTH works on DJI Go? There is a big prominent button on the DJI Go App labeled "H". If that does not work, then I can always select the mechanical button on the front of the controller.

But let's get back to main topic on how the Litchi software functions. While I believe the Litchi application is a decent product and has lots of functionality missing in GS Pro, there are some areas where this program is deficient. Laurence Seberini (the self proclaimed Mr. Litchi) makes a big deal in his videos about how easy it is change waypoints and points of interest to get the correct view. What Mr. Seberini misses in his videos is framing. There is no way from looking at a satellite map to really understand how the video is going to appear in the field of view of the camera. To do this requires adjustments in the field.

Unfortunately, with the way the Litchi software is written you have to fly the mission before can make any changes. And, if you want to abort the mission, well you have rely on a mechanical switch so that you can make changes to waypoints.

In fact, many are suggesting a work around of uploading the mission to the web before beginning the mission so you can download it again and make modifications. What if there is no internet connection? There is no way to upload the mission to make a modifications? And, there is no way to cache a map in advance. I don't want to upload my missions to their hub. I need a local solution.

For all of Litchi's good points (and there are many) it comes across as software that is half-baked. For example, have you tried navigating through their list of video format selections. In DJI Go it is well organized. Litchi is just a list formats that does not appear to make any logical sense. And, that is just one of many issues I have with the Litchi application. The list can go on and on.

I can tell you this. When the folks at DJI get their act together on GS Pro, Litchi is the first application that I am going to delete.

Don Barar

 

[GrammatonxXXxCleric]

My software operating system Windows fails less than my mechanical restart switch. Of course I am being facetious......

 

[FlashBuddy]

With all "due" respect, right?

 

[GrammatonxXXxCleric]

Here's the thing. With DJI go you have the ability to record waypoints as you see them when you fly but you are not able to pre-plan a flight. With litchi however you can pre-plan a flight very well and make changes to it if it is not sufficient it is somewhat of a 50-50 situation. I prefer litchi many times over DJI go.

 

[tevek]

Hey Don, I think the folk on here are trying to assist you with providing options for managing a $25 app that is a third party link to the DJI SDK. I have flown many missions and simply delete those that are rubbish. It takes me ten minutes to map out and batch edit a route on my iOS device, fly it again and rerun at any time I choose to. I think that aspect of the Litchi app is what makes it stand out from the DJI option to running missions.
I think discussing mechanical/software pros and cons is simply semantics given that we are talking about a flying camera.
Just my opinion.

 

[John Locke]

Why push a mechanical switch when you can select a software switch.

Maybe because it's inherently more reliable, and quicker to access, quick to push or switch. Software switches are rarely "one click away", where a mechanical switch is. Not to mention just seeing the screen in bright sunlight can be an issue, it's not with mechanical switches. And then, with mechnical switches, if you become very familiar with your RC, you can operate the switch (mode switch for example) without taking your eyes off the craft, you simply reach, feel and enable the switch. You can't do that with software screen switches

 

[John Locke]

What if there is no internet connection? There is no way to upload the mission to make a modifications? And, there is no way to cache a map in advance.

True, you really need an internet connection with your device to get the full benefit of Litchi. If your setup can't do that, at very least with a hot spot from your phone, you won't be happy. It's similar to Google Maps navigation, it won't navigate when there's no internet connection in the area.

 

[Don Barar]

HI John,

Of course I use a hot spot. In fact I carry two mobile telephones (1 ATT and 1 Verizon) to get the widest cell coverage. But there are places here in Arizona were there is limited or no cell coverage. Litchi is of no value to me in these locations.

Don

 

[Pharm]

FWIW, I use an Ipad Mini 2. I plan my missions on the Ipad while at home and connected so I can cache the map. When I get to my flying site, I have no map because I don't have cellular service on the Ipad (same thing as being in an area where there is mo cell service available). When I load the Litchi mission, the cached map appears and the bird flies as it should. It's location on the map is correct. If I plan the mission online (which is very rare) I simply download it to the Ipad before I leave home. In my case, I have no need to use my phone as a hotspot to load the mission in the field because I've already downloaded it to the Ipad. What I'm saying is that if you download the mission (if you've planned it online) to your device PRIOR to going to your flight location or if you've planned and saved it on your device and cached the map, there's no need for a cellular connection or use of a hotspot at all. The map will appear correctly when you open the mission whether you have a cellular connection or not.

As far as the RTH hardware vs. software debate, I see that as personal choice. I prefer the mechanical switch but I don't worry about it breaking or wearing out because I very rarely use the RTH function anyway.

 

[Don Barar]

Hi Pharm,

Thank you for your input. There does appear to be "defacto" map caching with the Litchi application. I attempted what you suggested and it works as you described.

The debate about software vs. mechanical switches was never about RTH. It was about whether-or-not there should be software solution to aborting a mission instead of toggling the mechanical A/S/P switch. This may be a limitation of SDK as Hanger's Autopilot makes a similar statement about canceling a mission by toggling the A/S/P switch.

Maybe one of the Autopilot users that has been following this thread can provide insight.

Don Barar

 

[Don Barar]

And for those of you that are questioning me about the reliability of mechanical switches you might want to check out this statement "Switches are considered relatively high failure rate items due to the moving parts and the wear-out mechanisms." contained in this URL:

http://www.navsea.navy.mil/Portals/...8/PDFs/Products/Archive/Switches/Switches.pdf

So how long are those Chinese switches really going to last when you start toggling them 10 plus times per mission trying to get the right shot?

Don Barar

 

[Traveler]

And for those of you that are questioning me about the reliability of mechanical switches you might want to check out this statement "Switches are considered relatively high failure rate items due to the moving parts and the wear-out mechanisms." contained in this URL:

http://www.navsea.navy.mil/Portals/...8/PDFs/Products/Archive/Switches/Switches.pdf

So how long are those Chinese switches really going to last when you start toggling them 10 plus times per mission trying to get the right shot?

Don Barar

Don, I have not tested this, but perhaps you can pause then opt for another mode, i.e., Orbit, Pano, etc., then back to Waypoint. It's a lot more steps than just using the mechanical toggle switch, but it may be a workaround.

 

[Don Barar]

Hi T,

Thank you for the suggestion. I'll give it try and report back.

Don Barar

 

[knight48]

And for those of you that are questioning me about the reliability of mechanical switches you might want to check out this statement "Switches are considered relatively high failure rate items due to the moving parts and the wear-out mechanisms." contained in this URL:

http://www.navsea.navy.mil/Portals/...8/PDFs/Products/Archive/Switches/Switches.pdf

So how long are those Chinese switches really going to last when you start toggling them 10 plus times per mission trying to get the right shot?

Don Barar

FINISH the rest of the QUOTE DON...
It also says:
Vendors often specify switch reliability by giving a maximum number of switching sequences rather than a rate of failure with time.
Have you checked to see WHO makes the switch and what their Failure rate is??
Sequence could be in the THOUSANDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
SHEES!

 

[knight48]

From other forums on switches...

I have seen switches installed 40 years ago still working. Lets say the switch is used 5x a day. So 5x365x40=73000 operations. I think 73000 operations is pretty good for what was probably a $0.29 device. Thats $0.000004 per operation. The switch itself is typically VERY reliable. The terminations are what cause problems and even there, they have to be pretty bad to not work.

 

[Don Barar]

Hi Knight,

Thank you for your input. I have a different take on this switch as there seem to a number of mechanophiles on this forum.

Compare and contrast the joysticks to the A/S/P switch. My guess is that DJI has built lots of reliability into the joysticks as there is no other way to control the aircraft. Now that A/S/P switch I would bet for most owners spends most of life in P the position with very few actuations. While I cannot say for sure, I am assuming the level of reliability for the A/S/P switch no where near approaches the reliability the joysticks. Why? Because it is not going to be used that much. We start using that switch a lot to get the shot and we are asking for trouble.

I think your 5 actuations per day badly under estimates the number of times I have to use this switch. On the last mission I flew this morning, I toggled that switch 20 times to abort a mission (as I recognized I did not have things quite right) so that I could make adjustments to location of the waypoints and the height of POI to get the shot just right. Now let's say I need 10 different clips to completely describe a subject. That's 200 actuations per subject.

I think what is also interesting is that I have heard several members talk about 1000s of actuations. If that is what this is, this suggests only 3 sigma reliability. That would be a very, very, very poor reliability statistic.

Of course there may no other way for Litchi to abort a mission other than toggling the A/S/P switch as SDK may not support any other option.

My 2 cents.

Don Barar

 

[knight48]

Haha
Ok

 

[Don Barar]

Hi Knight,

Glad you got a laugh. But I think it is time to close this thread. I'll start chirping again when I read about some poor ********* A/S/P switch broke in Attitude mode, became disoriented, and lost his Phantom.

Don Barar

 

[knight48]

Haha
Ok

 

[Pharm]

Hi Pharm,

Thank you for your input. There does appear to be "defacto" map caching with the Litchi application. I attempted what you suggested and it works as you described.

The debate about software vs. mechanical switches was never about RTH. It was about whether-or-not there should be software solution to aborting a mission instead of toggling the mechanical A/S/P switch. This may be a limitation of SDK as Hanger's Autopilot makes a similar statement about canceling a mission by toggling the A/S/P switch.

Maybe one of the Autopilot users that has been following this thread can provide insight.

Don Barar

Don, just plan your missions correctly from the start and you won't have to use the switch! All my missions are perfect! Yours should be too.

If you could see my face right now, you'd know I'm laughing. You seem to have a good sense of humor so I thought I'd just aggravate you a little. All my missions are NOT perfect and my wife reminds me daily that I'm not as smart as I think I am. In her words to me, "Clearly, you're an idiot!" Love that woman for keeping me grounded.