If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 READ!

Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

"fortune" has nothing to do with it. They are blaming it on reverse serendipity, when in actuality, it is bad engineering and quality control practices, period.
Not to mention bad product testing practices....
 
Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

I just read this on the DJI forum from na5nits an interesting read.

http://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=view ... D1&lang=en
Caution: LONG post, but will hopefully help save your P2V+.

I have the new style P2V+. Never crashed nor a hard landing, but have lost two ESCs: once from a simple tip-over when powering down motors, and I think when I clipped a small stand of desert grass. The ESC actually failed on my next flight trying to take off. Puff of white smoke.

I repaired one ESC by reverse engineering it for the schematic and replacing the MOSFETs. Then with oscilloscopes connected to pertinent motor drive signals, characterized ESC performance under various conditions, including a 20-minute full power tethered flight to having some interuption to the props or sudden change in load - just to see what it takes to blow the MOSFETs on an ESC. Turns out ... quite easy! I repaired and intentionally blew up the ESC three times to verify the cause.

ANY INTERUPTION TO THE MOTOR ROTATION, SUCH AS A TIP-OVER OR GRAZING A LITTLE TREE BRANCH *WILL IMMEDIATELY BLOW THE ESC.*

Recommendations below ... but here is what seems to be the failure mode.

The ESC delivers the 3-phase drive pulses to the motor windings. Two windings are energized, one is OFF at any given time. The winding that is OFF is momentarily used as a generator, producing the back EMF (BEMF) voltage pulses that tells the MPU where the stator is compared to the windings to make motor speed adjustments and proper commutation sequencing. All three BEMF windings are summed together to form the "common node" voltage. This is the reference voltage for the MPU internal zero-crossing detector for determining rotor position. If you have a tip-over or otherwise interupt the rotation of the motor, there is a sudden loss of BEMF pulses and the summed common node voltage goes to zero, and thus no zero-crossing rotor position. The MPU suddenly doesn't know where the rotor is compared to the energized windings. It doesn't know which windings to energize next to sequence the motor. As a result, the energized winding, instead of being energized for only a few milliseconds, remains energized for a second or two (waiting for the next BEMF pulse). The motor windings are a near short circuit, the reason they are "pulsed." Now you have the MOSFETs trying to drive a near dead short, which would be nearly the full capacity (+11v 5A) of the P2V+ battery. During this momentary short, the MOSFETs get very hot until they fail. MOSFETs generally fail by the substrate melting, shorting the MOSFET (drain to source). This extreme heat destroys the MOSFETs, as many of us have visibly seen. The short circuit also causes the P2V+ battery to turn off to protect itself.

I do not know what can be improved on the ESC board to prevent this. Once the battery detects a short and shuts down, it's pretty much over.

Thus, on a tip-over, as soon as the prop strikes even some soft sand and interrupts the motor rotation for a blink of an eye, the ESC will fail, a couple of MOSFETs go up in smoke, and you may find the battery has also suddenly turned itself off. Now, imagine if that happens while in the air - skimming some leaves in a tree or something. The blown ESC and battery shutdown will make your P2V+ fall from the sky like a rock that we have all read about way too many times.

During my full power tethered flights, the wiring temperature was monitored. It never exceeded 40C, below the melting point of wire insulation, though the insulation (actually, shrink tubing) was "mushy." The MOSFETs were very hot by the end of the flight; the motors just kind of warm. MOSFETs switching high current *do* get hot under normal conditions. Still, I didn't see any compelling signs of wire melting or any design flaws with the DJI ESCs. Basically, they're quite clever and well designed. I no longer believe the motor wires are too small and causing problems. And, inspite of intentionally blowing up some ESCs for these tests, it never damaged a motor.

RECOMMENDATIONS
(The ones I will follow myself from here on out)

1. Don't EVER, EVER, EVER let your spinning props strike anything. EVER. It will blow the ESC.
Trees, shrubs, grass ... anything that will come in contact with your spinning props.
2. From here on out, I will hand catch my P2V+ for landings. (I practiced today. After 2-3 times, it becomes duck soup).
3. I do not intend on getting prop guards (yet), but it does certainly add to the importance of having them.
Especially if you don't do number 2.
4. To avoid any possible rotation interruption while in flight, I will no longer conduct abrupt course or altitude changes (even though
I love watching my Phantom bank on a direction reversal!). There's the possibility that an abrupt change in direction, for
which the four motor speeds are suddenly changed and redistributed, combined with prop wash, *may* cause a temporary
stall in rotation triggering an ESC failure. We all know what happens then. I don't know that for sure, but I plan on being more
conservative and "smooth" in making direction, yaw and altitude changes. Remember, the new 2312 motors have 25% more
power and 25% more torque to make impressive direction changes.
5. This certainly implies to never fly your bird out of line of sight. There might be a tree out there to snag your prop.
6. I also recommend to separate the 3 motor wires going to the ESC board so they do not touch each other, AND ensure they
are above and away from direct contact with the six MOSFET chips. On my P2V+, the motor wiring was slightly twisted in
contact with each other and resting on top of a couple of MOSFET chips, causing excessive heating of the wires. Some
simple separation and avoid the heat from the MOSFETs will go a long ways keeping the wiring in good shape.

And lastly, I don't think I'll ever fly over water. Not an ESC issue, but it sure seems it raises the unlucky factor by a ton. :-(

Finally, the signs of blown MOSFETs on your ESC is when your props try to move in one direction, then the other, seemingly hunting back and forth, seldom or never making a complete revolution. If it does that, bad ESC, and likely not the motor.

I do not know how this issue might apply to all P2Vs falling out of the sky, but I am convinced it addresses the scores of reports of ESC failures following a simple little tip-over, including my own, or other inadvertent contact of something with a spinning prop.

I'd be interested in anybody who has also torn into the ESCs to figure them out, or your flight experience when you blew an ESC and if consistent with the above. Hopefully being a little more cautious about tip-overs and a little conservative on ambitious flight control maneuvers will keep your P2V+ and many others in the sky for many enjoyable flights to come.

Paul
In the New Mexico desert

PS - I will prepare a document with the reverse engineered schematic diagram and the oscilloscope waveforms for troubleshooting failed ESCs, and will post shortly for those wishing to repair your ESC at the component level.
 
Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

CapnBob said:
Prylar Bek said:
I't's fascinating watching grown men freak out over these real and/or imagined issues and the various solutions that they are trying to come up to counter the problem. And we wonder why politicians can't solve issues???

Spoken like a true Hollyweird, "SoCal" liberal.

Get a clue, Sonny Jim.

"Grown Men" "freaking out" are the ones that get down and dirty, and solve the problems of the world.
You have obviously never been involved in the process of troubleshooting, damage control, repair, M.R.B.s, E.C.O.s, and other engineering issues.

We have a lot of money, time, blood sweat and tears invested here, and we're trying to help each other out.

If you have nothing useful to say, keep your smug infantile comments to yourself.

Did your daddy buy your drone for you?

Firstly, just because I live in SoCal, try not to be "smug, infantile" and obnoxious yourself by branding me (Sonny Jim???) or others that live here with that broad of a brush. My politics are not yours or anyone else's business. For the record, Im a 4 year military vet, ex-Army Ranger (see my Avatar) with two tours in Vietnam (not too many liberals in my branch of the service) My comment was made in jest and you obviously took exception to it. Too damm bad. And no,my daddy did not buy my drone, he died several years from Lymphoma contacted in New Guiena fighting in WW2. As for who bought my Drone? I did, with my retirement money and from payments I receive from the Govt, as I'm partially disabled from war related injuries. So, I have my .."money time...etc". tied up in my drone as well as you and others, and don't want to bash it up either. So, in closing there 'Bob', keep your stinking pie hole shut about your ill conceived and incorrect assumptions about who I am and what my politics are!
 
Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

I purchased a new vision+ v3 last month, however I had uavdirect install the e300 (s-tuned) upgrade.
The motor wires look completely different than the v3 pictures folks have posted.
Has anyone reported issues with the e300 motors? Why aren't they more popular on the boards?
 
Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

Interesting. Why would man of your intelligence /pedigree say something so banal that it sounds like a child, then?
It sounded to me that you were bashing this forum and it's members.
I am sure I'm not the only one who thought that.
We are all trying hard to solve issues that affect the drone community, and it seemed your post was belittling.
I may have jumped the gun, but it's hard to infer intent or tone in a post.

If it was indeed meant in fun, I apologize.
I am a vet as well. Thank you for your service.
 
Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

It's easy to take written words the wrong way and misread people in forums and then shoot from the hip. I think we all should be more careful, in both how we say things and how we respond. Not being a vet, I thank you both for your service.
 
Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

CapnBob said:
It sounded to me that you were bashing this forum and it's members.
I am sure I'm not the only one who thought that.

I DID NOT think PB was bashing in the least. Overreaction to perceived problems with the Phantom 2 is a daily occurrence on these forums.

Your post which is filled with insults, suppositions and personal attacks is so far out of line it's hard to put into words.
 
Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

CapnBob said:
Interesting. Why would man of your intelligence /pedigree say something so banal that it sounds like a child, then?
It sounded to me that you were bashing this forum and it's members.
I am sure I'm not the only one who thought that.
We are all trying hard to solve issues that affect the drone community, and it seemed your post was belittling.
I may have jumped the gun, but it's hard to infer intent or tone in a post.

If it was indeed meant in fun, I apologize.
I am a vet as well. Thank you for your service.

I have no idea how you could infer that .." I was bashing the forum and its members on this forum" Far From it...It was an observation and if you read ALL of the comments, it strikes me as funny that there is a bit of 'mass hysteria' (sort of) over these issues. I myself had a 'flyway' early on (no damage) and so I totally understand the issues, but short of DJI having a recall (never happen), I'm going to fly my bird and see what happens. And thank you for your service and the apology. And one last comment, although SoCal does have its share of 'liberals', there are many of us here who are not of that persuasion (and its not meant as an apology) nor are we "Hollywoodwierdos", mostly just hard working folks trying the best we can,like most folks. Goodday, Sir.
 
Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

mij119 said:
CapnBob said:
It sounded to me that you were bashing this forum and it's members.
I am sure I'm not the only one who thought that.

I DID NOT think PB was bashing in the least. Overreaction to perceived problems with the Phantom 2 is a daily occurrence on these forums.

Your post which is filled with insults, suppositions and personal attacks is so far out of line it's hard to put into words.


Thank you
 
Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

MapMaker53 said:
It's easy to take written words the wrong way and misread people in forums and then shoot from the hip. I think we all should be more careful, in both how we say things and how we respond. Not being a vet, I thank you both for your service.
And thank you as well
 
Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

rotorwash said:
I just read this on the DJI forum from na5nits an interesting read.

http://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=view ... D1&lang=en
Caution: LONG post, but will hopefully help save your P2V+.

I have the new style P2V+. Never crashed nor a hard landing, but have lost two ESCs: once from a simple tip-over when powering down motors, and I think when I clipped a small stand of desert grass. The ESC actually failed on my next flight trying to take off. Puff of white smoke.

---------------snipped---------------

PS - I will prepare a document with the reverse engineered schematic diagram and the oscilloscope waveforms for troubleshooting failed ESCs, and will post shortly for those wishing to repair your ESC at the component level.

I'm glad I didn't void my warranty by replacing the motor wires. Of course, it does make one wonder what happens now if you do fry an ESC from a minor tipover or from an "abrupt air maneuver". Will it qualify for replacement under the 1-year ESC warranty that DJI provides?
 
Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

MacCool said:
rotorwash said:
I just read this on the DJI forum from na5nits an interesting read.

http://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=view ... D1&lang=en
Caution: LONG post, but will hopefully help save your P2V+.

I have the new style P2V+. Never crashed nor a hard landing, but have lost two ESCs: once from a simple tip-over when powering down motors, and I think when I clipped a small stand of desert grass. The ESC actually failed on my next flight trying to take off. Puff of white smoke.

---------------snipped---------------

PS - I will prepare a document with the reverse engineered schematic diagram and the oscilloscope waveforms for troubleshooting failed ESCs, and will post shortly for those wishing to repair your ESC at the component level.

I'm glad I didn't void my warranty by replacing the motor wires. Of course, it does make one wonder what happens now if you do fry an ESC from a minor tipover or from an "abrupt air maneuver". Will it qualify for replacement under the 1-year ESC warranty that DJI provides?


Read my mind. I fear less the tip over then the 'abrupt air man." HMMM. Was going out today to try some wazoo turns, etc...might have to rethink that...
 
Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

Not sure if I just got lucky, but had a tip over while landing yesterday. First incident since I got my P2V+, so I was a little freaked out. I was actually landed, then did CSC to stop motors when the tip occurred. Changed the 2 props and did a test flight, everything seems ok.
 
Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

codylv said:
Not sure if I just got lucky, but had a tip over while landing yesterday. First incident since I got my P2V+, so I was a little freaked out. I was actually landed, then did CSC to stop motors when the tip occurred. Changed the 2 props and did a test flight, everything seems ok.

any idea WHY it tipped?
 
Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

Really not sure, happened so quick. Possibly a bad compass calibration? Anything specifically I could check?
 
Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

codylv said:
Really not sure, happened so quick. Possibly a bad compass calibration? Anything specifically I could check?


the ongoing questions/issues with these quads around here. no idea why they do certain things
 
Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

codylv said:
Really not sure, happened so quick. Possibly a bad compass calibration? Anything specifically I could check?
Nothing to do with compass calibration. Could be the GPS recalculating - you land, but the GPS suddenly decides that you should land "over there" instead in order to maintain the position. Even with the best GPS lock while the Phantom is hovering, it might drift a foot or two one way or the other. Probably wants to do the same thing even when its on the ground. If it does happen, the skids catch and it tips over. Center of gravity is high relative to the width of stance. You could probably help the problem by zip-tieing some arrow shafts or dowel rods to the landing gear, or maybe by landing in ATTI mode....ie...switch to ATTI as you approach the ground.
 
Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

eyecon82 said:
ccase39 said:
When I spend this much money on a product that is supposed to work right out of the box I expect it to do exactly that.Work. I dont see the point in ordering one and putting my time and money into it if I am going to have to "fix" it on my own in order for it to work right. A product, any product should work as advertized. If I wanted to solder wires I would just buy one I could build myself.
This makes me want to consider the vision as opposed to the vision plus. It also makes me wonder if I want to buy a Dji at all.

No offense, but are you new to the rc world?

In this hobby, you have to be comfortable taking apart your bird, knowing what Is going on, etc.

You will never find a perfect uav. You think the grass is greener on the other side? Just go ahead and look at the walkera forums....

Just like with ALL aircraft, you have to maintain and service it regularly or it will fall out of the sky no matter what
No offense taken and yes I am new to the quad copter world. I absolutely see your point about new technology needing to be tweaked. I would expect some bugs in firmware or even GPS because like you said the technology is new. RC motors with propellers on the other hand have been around for a very long time and are fairly simple. I will buy the phantom but after research I think I'm going to go with the vision non plus model. I can put upgrades on it when they get the bugs worked out.
 
Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

MacCool said:
codylv said:
Really not sure, happened so quick. Possibly a bad compass calibration? Anything specifically I could check?
Nothing to do with compass calibration. Could be the GPS recalculating - you land, but the GPS suddenly decides that you should land "over there" instead in order to maintain the position. Even with the best GPS lock while the Phantom is hovering, it might drift a foot or two one way or the other. Probably wants to do the same thing even when its on the ground. If it does happen, the skids catch and it tips over. Center of gravity is high relative to the width of stance. You could probably help the problem by zip-tieing some arrow shafts or dowel rods to the landing gear, or maybe by landing in ATTI mode....ie...switch to ATTI as you approach the ground.
Makes sense, I actually flipped S2 to failsafe to test, then decided to go back to GPS and land myself, not sure if that affected it. I will land in ATTI from now on. Thanks for the insight. Loving my new hobby [emoji2]
 
Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

Prylar Bek said:
codylv said:
Not sure if I just got lucky, but had a tip over while landing yesterday. First incident since I got my P2V+, so I was a little freaked out. I was actually landed, then did CSC to stop motors when the tip occurred. Changed the 2 props and did a test flight, everything seems ok.

any idea WHY it tipped?
:D
CSC is for starting the motors. It can also be used in an emergency to stop the motors. If you simply pull the throttle all the way down after you land, the motors will shut down after about 3 seconds. The sudden shutdown after landing using CSC can cause tip overs.

I would encourage all V3 owners to hand catch or get a supply of props and ESCs.
 

Recent Posts

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
143,100
Messages
1,467,645
Members
104,990
Latest member
rockymountaincaptures