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If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 READ!

Discussion in 'Phantom 2 Vision + Discussion' started by hunch, Jan 1, 2015.

  1. hunch

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    If you have a Phantom 2 V3 you better consider doing this before flying at all !!
    Another DJI's design flaw when they decided to put much thinner motor wire on.
    Have those wires swapped because THEY WILL burn out your ESC and your new bird will fall out of the sky like a rock.
    Burlbark and I are doing the swaps on a daily base. better check yours.

    http://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=view ... D1&lang=en
     
  2. BMech

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    Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

    What are we supposed to check?
     
  3. flyNfrank

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    Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

    The wires do not separate. The thin wires you speak of are actual a continuation of the same wire that is spun throughout the motor. Replacing that wire will only cause point of resistance. Don't know why people think the wires at their size are what is causing the problem, because it's not!
     
  4. burlbark

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    Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

    Oh no this is incorrect for a couple different reasons.

    You are correct saying this is the same wire spun through the motor. What you are failing to include is once a motor winding is no longer in the motor it can no longer heat sink to the motor housing and it is no longer being cooled by the circulating air passing by it. Heat produces more resistance and this continues to build. Add the flexing vibrating environment and this is a recipe for disaster.

    In the case of the motor leads resistance, by stripping back 1/4" of insulation off the thin leads and inserting them into the larger gauge wire and then flowing solder through that end of wire, well there is no resistance present to speak of until we exceed the current capacity of the motors themselves.

    What we are also doing here is adding a flexible section to these stiff leads that have already been shown to fatigue and break at the solder joints. The motors are constantly flexing and twisting and this results in stress on the stiff solder joints.

    Once you develop micro cracks in the stiff thin copper leads from vibrations your resistance continues to build and overloads the insulation and the mosfet circuitry. So you can kiss the esc good bye also. This is one reason why we have seen the cooked insulation on wire that should be able to support this current load marginally.

    And finally if you dont like this mod, you dont have to do it, and dont have it done. If you have followed any of my posted mods you will see that I have only added reliability to this flying platform.

    Jeremy James
     
  5. Pmcdn

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    Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

    Hmm. I need a little more data before I start tearing apart my Plus to change motor wires that may not have any negative affect on a motor and could cause unnecessary damage in the process.

    With all due respect, your statement of "THEY WILL" burn out... Indicates that it is a mathematical certainty that this will occur. While I appreciate your warning in all of our best interest, there are just too many Vision PLUS owners here and elsewhere who are not having any issues.

    Respectfully,
     
  6. rbhamilton

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    Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

    Sounds like solid advice to me. I've still got the V2 but if I had a V3 I'd listen to the guy. It won't cost much to soldier up a few wires. Anybody can do it or at least you can find someone who knows how. Good info! Hope you save a few birds.
     
  7. Mako79

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    Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R


    Im no electrician nor do i study engineering... but the way fuses work is that you want the fuse to burn first. What im saying is that wiring wrapped around the motor is a basically a thick cable and the thinner wire to the esc is the fuse.

    Ive done a basic prevention mod by seperating the wires. Dji lays the 3 wires on top of each other. When the rubber shielding melts, this will cause the short.
     
  8. burlbark

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    Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

    Fuses are a built in point of resistance. There should be no fuses in a brushless motor power supply line... :shock:

    Do you really think that DJI designed the wires to burn up in the air as fuses?
     
  9. hunch

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    Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R


    Ummm do you really think that the thin wires should act like fuses on those motors??
    If so let me ask you this. What happens when a fuse blows and you were just watching
    That foodball game? Yes the electricity goes out causing that your tv goes out.
    So lets translate that to flying your phantom. You are 300ft up in the air and
    One of those "fuses" go out???
    Oh no, the motor stops spinning and you only have three left.
    Well three is not enough on the phantom and your $1300 bird just
    Transformed from a shiny new phantom to a dropping rock.

    Those motor wires should be as thick as possible.


    ;)
     
  10. burlbark

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    Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

    These are solid wires mounted in a flexible chassis. It is a mathematical certainty that they will fail. We have all the anecdotal evidence we need. This kind of design unfortunately has caused many aviation fatalities... :( Its truly an over sight by DJI.
     
  11. MacCool

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    Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

    How did it work before this "thin-wire/failing ESC" bruhaha? Presumably they were multi-stranded wires, from what everyone seems to be saying, and a heavier wire-gauge. How were they attached to the motor on the previous version Phantom drones? I don't understand why it would be as problem to just replace the wires?

    Racing R/C off-road trucks in my past, those motors had like 18 gauge wire with silicone insulation for leads...big beefy mothers. I still have a couple of spools of that wire.

    This is a fascinating development. I can't wait to see what DJI has to say. It would be hard for them to keep silent, especially with CES coming up and GoPro breathing down their neck. If the suppositions about the ESC wires turns out to be correct...huge loss of face. And dollars.
     
  12. Mako79

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    Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R


    Of course i know that there is no fuses in a brushless. What im saying is the thin wire will burn out first and melt (acting like a fuse). The problem is the way dji has layed out the wires on top of each other. Once the shield melts, the short will occur.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. hunch

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    Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

    That's what I thought you meant.
    I didn't mean no disrespect just wanted to make sure that we are on the same page.
    Jeremy and I are only trying to find and fix all the kinks that Dji obviously missed on.

    Hani
     
  14. MacCool

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    Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

    My guess is that the current isn't high enough and the resistance is low enough that it wouldn't generate enough heat to actually melt the copper. If that was the case, there's no point soldering it because the solder will melt long before the copper does. More likely it burns off the insulation and the leads short out.
     
  15. Mako79

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    Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

    Try and seperate the wires like the attached to prevent shorting.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. MacCool

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    Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

    Surely the best approach would be to have heavier wires so the temps don't go high and threaten the insulation thereby causing a short and frying the MOSFET, but I wonder if the bigger problem is the insulation. Could one slip some silicone tubing over the wiring? Either unsolder the ESC end and slip it over, or slit it lengthwise and put it over the wires without unsoldering?

    Just spitballin' here.....
     
  17. burlbark

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    Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

    You can try that but once again its a hard wire in a flexible chassis. We have seen the wires break or fatigue so that they come close to breaking and the resistance builds up and it cooks the insulation off. It took examination of quite a few units but it has become clear.

    Jeremy James
     
  18. Mako79

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    Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

    Problem is not all of us can solder. And will DJI still cover warranty if we change to a thicker guage?

    Im fustrated because i have a gopro attached to my p2 v2. I think dji only covers the phantom. And hyperthetically would they cover their own h33d if it was involved in an esc failure?
     
  19. Meta4

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    Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

    Burlbark + Hunch singing together makes this a very persuasive duet.
    If I had one of the new Phantoms I'd be looking very closely at this insurance.
    I suspect it would be more valuable than any potential warranty from DJI.
    So DJI fixed the GPS shielding they had ignored for so long in the P2 series only to slip in another fatal flaw.
    Should be interesting to see how this plays out.
     
  20. justin00

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    Re: If you just purchased a brand new Phantom 2 Vision+ V3 R

    Burlbark and Hunch have either of you guys heard back from DJI about this ?
    What would you suggest if we are in Australia/Anywhere and unable to do the changes you mentioned :( ??
    Surely DJI have got to say something soon ??
    if I was to pay you, would I be able to send you my 2312 motors I have, you guys mod them and then send them back please ?

    BTW have either of you guys heard of the ESC 2.1 and if that is able to fix some how fix the issue ?? Have seen diff theories on 2.1, but the problem is..( well one of) is that I can't find any where that sells v2.1 :/

    Hmm reading over this again.. can you please give me a bit more detailed info on what we need to do exactly ???