How bad is it really to store battery at 100%?

Unfortunately these lipo batteries are meant to die, so I want to get the most out of them since there pricey. Toms tech has a good tutorial on maintaining your battery. Also so does this guy
https://YouTube.be/n7xALycWiq8

So I try to fallow the best I can



Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app
 
So what about summer time when your flying almost everyday. Is it ok to charge them up after you use them and have them ready for tomorrow's flight? And how long is too long? One-two days? Three? Before you need to use them before you start to damage them...


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app
 
Seems that battery technology would've progressed faster than it has. Why we're still forced to use these fragile lipo batteries that have been around for years blows my mind.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MotorCycle-Man
I did just watch Toms tech time and got some good info that I will apply...


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots mobile app
 
  • Like
Reactions: MotorCycle-Man
Seems that battery technology would've progressed faster than it has. Why we're still forced to use these fragile lipo batteries that have been around for years blows my mind.
That's because battery chemistry is HARD. But there has been improvements over the years. Remember NiMH?

Interestingly, according to Wikipedia, "LiPo" batteries are really Lithium ion batteries chemically. There are true Lithium polymer batteries, but the standard RC batts are not them.

If this is true, then are we barking up the wrong tree here. "Standard" Lithium Ion batts tolerate remaining at full charge for long periods of time, although it has been suggested that you leave them around 50% for long term storage. None of this paranoia about leaving a topped off battery. I would wonder if it is merely a different set of priorities - typical battery users don't care to get the absolute last electron out of their cells - you can just plug your laptop in again. RC people want as much juice as possible.

Thoughts?
 
  • Like
Reactions: MotorCycle-Man
I've been trying to follow the guidelines for battery storage, I run my batteries down to 50% before long term storage and I have my batteries set to discharge after 48 hours. But I really like the ability to fly spontaneously, whenever I feel like flying, on short notice. I like to video wildlife, and if there are geese on the pond and I have 50% batteries, forget about it. I actually grabbed a 50% battery one time for a quick flight to fly with buzzards, and I ended up with critical low voltage and RTH. It was not fun.

I curious if there is any good data on just how quickly storing at 100% damages a battery. I'm thinking about having one "sacrificial" battery that I keep at 100% all the time, but I'm wondering how quickly that will ruin it.

Any thoughts?

Temperature causes the greatest deterioration of LiPo batteries followed by higher or lower voltages. The following data was published a few years ago for LiPos used in RC planes:
LiPo Capacity mAh Loss Per Year

Temperature At ........Storage Voltage .........Fully Charged

0 degree C ........................2% .............................6%

25 degree C ......................4% .............................20%

40 degree C .....................15% ............................35%

60 degree C (3 months)....25% ............................40%

DJI recommends long term storage at about 50% charged at about 25 degrees C.
I suggest that you keep your 100% charged LiPo in the refrigerator, so that it is quickly available for flying and I believe that you can use it cold but it will initially not have full power, but it will warm up as you use it. However please check that the cold LiPo has enough power for your needs. Beware if you store them at full charge at 25 degrees C they will loose about 20% of their capacity per year!
I store my LiPos at storage voltage in the refrigerator to reduce their rate of deterioration, and never leave them in hot areas such as in a hot car.
 
The charger that I use for my RC plane LiPos can charge 4 dis-similar LiPos to either storage voltage or to full balanced charge, and can charge any of my RC plane LiPos from storage voltage to full charge in just over half an hour just before I leave home to go flying.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MotorCycle-Man
That's because battery chemistry is HARD. But there has been improvements over the years. Remember NiMH?

Interestingly, according to Wikipedia, "LiPo" batteries are really Lithium ion batteries chemically. There are true Lithium polymer batteries, but the standard RC batts are not them.

If this is true, then are we barking up the wrong tree here. "Standard" Lithium Ion batts tolerate remaining at full charge for long periods of time, although it has been suggested that you leave them around 50% for long term storage. None of this paranoia about leaving a topped off battery. I would wonder if it is merely a different set of priorities - typical battery users don't care to get the absolute last electron out of their cells - you can just plug your laptop in again. RC people want as much juice as possible.

Thoughts?
Paranoia? For the purpose of the discussion here the figures quoted are applicable to our cells. Yes they are a type of lithium ion, same as the batteries the lifetime calculations were based on. religiously keeping your packs flight ready at 100% SOC will mean that they have lost roughly 25% more of their available capacity in 12 months than they would have if stored at around 40%.
 
If you have multiple batteries, as I do. Having two 100w chargers can and does save a lot of time and effort, in keeping them flight battery packs topped up.

RedHotPoker
 
  • Like
Reactions: MotorCycle-Man
That's because battery chemistry is HARD. But there has been improvements over the years. Thoughts?

For the last 10 years I've read numerous articles about the 'next generation' of batteries on the horizon, but nothing comes to fruition.

Billions of dollars have been poured into research (mainly by the auto industry) to develop a better, safer and more advanced battery. Yet, no earth shattering break through S have been made. Have we reached the ceiling in what is scientifically possible in the chemistry of a battery? Seems like it.
 
For the last 10 years I've read numerous articles about the 'next generation' of batteries on the horizon, but nothing comes to fruition.

Billions of dollars have been poured into research (mainly by the auto industry) to develop a better, safer and more advanced battery. Yet, no earth shattering break through S have been made. Have we reached the ceiling in what is scientifically possible in the chemistry of a battery? Seems like it.
i don't think so... as time goes on some one will create an awesome battery, but think of how fast technology has come- from cell phone batteries in the early 90s to the type of batteries we use in our drones today. even look at the P2 batteries compared to the P3 batteries that was a small leap forward for dji.
this is just my theory but i think some companies out there have the technology to create "better" batteries, they know they can but they won't otherwise supply and demand won't be supply and demand anymore in other words they will continue to make the same batteries that eventually the customer will need to buy more because one is dying or they make them with limits so the flyer wants more flight time and bingo another battery bought=more $ for money hungry companies


Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots mobile app
 
For the last 10 years I've read numerous articles about the 'next generation' of batteries on the horizon, but nothing comes to fruition.

Billions of dollars have been poured into research (mainly by the auto industry) to develop a better, safer and more advanced battery. Yet, no earth shattering break through S have been made. Have we reached the ceiling in what is scientifically possible in the chemistry of a battery? Seems like it.

Id suggest we are nowhere near the extent of where battery technokogyy will progess to.

Here is another article for you...

Micro solid oxide fuel cell fabricated on porous stainless steel: a new strategy for enhanced thermal cycling ability : Scientific Reports

Hydrogen fuel cells seem to be our closest promise of lithium ion beating energy density and subequently longer flight times.
 
In 2000 I bought a music player with a hard drive in it. It was called a Nomad Jukebox made by Creative Labs. It was one of the first hard disk drive music players. It ran on four AAs. You might get four hours out of it if you turned it on and didn't touch it.

In 2002 I bought the new Nomad Jukebox III which included 2 of the new Lithium Ion battery. It played for 22 hours. As a writer of Maximum PC stated: "Don't let it get wet or it could mess you up bad." Pretty friggin' awesome battery though.

Now with the lipos, we got four pound devices flyin' through the sky for miles and for a half hour at a time! Are you kidding me???

Personally, I'm very impressed with the way batteries have come along.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MotorCycle-Man
Temperature causes the greatest deterioration of LiPo batteries followed by higher or lower voltages. The following data was published a few years ago for LiPos used in RC planes:
LiPo Capacity mAh Loss Per Year

Temperature At ........Storage Voltage .........Fully Charged

0 degree C ........................2% .............................6%

25 degree C ......................4% .............................20%

40 degree C .....................15% ............................35%

60 degree C (3 months)....25% ............................40%

DJI recommends long term storage at about 50% charged at about 25 degrees C.
I suggest that you keep your 100% charged LiPo in the refrigerator, so that it is quickly available for flying and I believe that you can use it cold but it will initially not have full power, but it will warm up as you use it. However please check that the cold LiPo has enough power for your needs. Beware if you store them at full charge at 25 degrees C they will loose about 20% of their capacity per year!
I store my LiPos at storage voltage in the refrigerator to reduce their rate of deterioration, and never leave them in hot areas such as in a hot car.
Beware that very cold LiPos have much less energy and flying with them at very low ambient temperatures could cause serious problems due to loss of power
 
Paranoia? For the purpose of the discussion here the figures quoted are applicable to our cells. Yes they are a type of lithium ion, same as the batteries the lifetime calculations were based on. religiously keeping your packs flight ready at 100% SOC will mean that they have lost roughly 25% more of their available capacity in 12 months than they would have if stored at around 40%.
At 25 degrees C the change in loss is about 16% and at 0 degrees C the change in loss is about 4%. In a refrigerator the result would be slightly worse than 4%
 
How do you get 16%
If you go back 10 posts to post #48 you will find a table that shows the LiPo capacity deterioration as a function of charge state and temperature. That table was intended to advise the person who posted the first question on this forum, since reduced temperature can reduce the mAh capacity deterioration of fully charged LiPos. However I do agree that storing at full charge is not good for LiPos. Also flying with very cold batteries can also cause problems if you are not very careful.
 
If you go back 10 posts to post #48 you will find a table that shows the LiPo capacity deterioration as a function of charge state and temperature. That table was intended to advise the person who posted the first question on this forum, since reduced temperature can reduce the mAh capacity deterioration of fully charged LiPos. However I do agree that storing at full charge is not good for LiPos
Thank you. I think it's that table is on the low side.
 

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
143,055
Messages
1,467,298
Members
104,920
Latest member
stovebayen