Dual Battery Mod

[MVodhanel]

MVodhanel , Do you think that the 100w charger is not as good as a standalone charger (in regards to charging the split battery pack)


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You know, I guess I better consider the application to answer that. Also, I have become accustomed to the standard lipo interface. To me, it is comfortable. A shame too - I have a bloody fortune in DJ charging equipment....

The reason I became familiar with the standard lipo interface was extended flight. Lipos do need a little management and this is what the advanced charging centers facilitate. These chargers network with your PC and help maintain logs and charging and cycle programs designed to maintain and improve the performance of the battery. They are generally multi-port (2 batteries at a time) and can safely fast charge.

DJ, otoh, has automated a lot of this, or so they say. I never could depend on the batteries putting themselves into storage mode. I use my smart charger to do this. But I don't really want to criticize the concept. I think it is a good one, and it works well. I find the quality of the equipment to be very good. When you would rather be immersed in cinematographic details instead of nuts and bolts details, go the DJ route.

So how is that for a wishy-washy answer?

 

[KyleMaxxUAV]

You know, I guess I better consider the application to answer that. Also, I have become accustomed to the standard lipo interface. To me, it is comfortable. A shame too - I have a bloody fortune in DJ charging equipment....

The reason I became familiar with the standard lipo interface was extended flight. Lipos do need a little management and this is what the advanced charging centers facilitate. These chargers network with your PC and help maintain logs and charging and cycle programs designed to maintain and improve the performance of the battery. They are generally multi-port (2 batteries at a time) and can safely fast charge.

DJ, otoh, has automated a lot of this, or so they say. I never could depend on the batteries putting themselves into storage mode. I use my smart charger to do this. But I don't really want to criticize the concept. I think it is a good one, and it works well. I find the quality of the equipment to be very good. When you would rather be immersed in cinematographic details instead of nuts and bolts details, go the DJ route.

So how is that for a wishy-washy answer?

I get what you are saying, I am not knowledgable enough on lipo chargers to have any point of view on the equipment you have other than thinking "sounds intense" for me I have trusted the dumbed down , automated version so far but now I am intrigued by your info!!

As far as your mod goes I think there most definitely is a market for it !! I love the idea and I'm excited to see how your tests go !! Gives me ideas of ripping one of my p3's apart along with some batteries !! Lol



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[MVodhanel]

I get what you are saying, I am not knowledgable enough on lipo chargers to have any point of view on the equipment you have other than thinking "sounds intense" for me I have trusted the dumbed down , automated version so far but now I am intrigued by your info!!

As far as your mod goes I think there most definitely is a market for it !! I love the idea and I'm excited to see how your tests go !! Gives me ideas of ripping one of my p3's apart along with some batteries !! Lol



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I want to customize a P3 for an over-sized single battery (on this thread - you think?). Rebuild the landing gear, little wider, and stretch the bird out vertically, just a little. All carbon fiber. Predominately from sheet and tube stock w/ some custom, molded pieces. I am a second generation mold maker - my kind of hobby.... (Material all available from Amazon)

 

[MVodhanel]

I did a routine run at the incredible height of 3 feet with dual Venom 2300's. They are 4s HVs and weigh in at 211 each. OK, look, right now I haven't finished sorting out my firmware, and I haven't clearly settled on the correct versions I am going to run off-line on transmitter and bird. I am supposed to be looking for my German scientist so we can re-write the firmware and make it open source, but this battery thing really got my attention. I'll have the German include the battery code too... So yeah, I'm flying three feet high until I feel confident about all this...

I think I know why aftermarket customizers stayed away from this particular modification. It is very easy to misinterpret what the battery manager is doing. I happen to have the benefit of having read a lot of dialog concerning this manager and was able to correctly interpret cause and effect behavior. I am just explaining this to offer some sort of a reasonable explanation as to why no one else is doing it. Others aren't, presumably because they are making conservative choices for their clients.

When I prepped for the test flight, I took the pair of batteries right off the charger and proceeded to hook it up the way I had many times before. But every time I connected the balance connector, I got a single flash from the manager, then nothing. Normally, the unit simply turns on. I did my reset routine with no success. OK... Is what everyone been talking about all this time correct, after all? This dang little manager will kick in whenever it feels like it, and refuse to work if it is the wrong battery......

But wait a minute... what has changed besides time since the last successful startup of the battery manager(?) The batteries were charged to full I mentioned this phenomenon earlier in the context of the master/slave configuration. You have a similar problem. When the battery manager is charging the batteries, what does it do when it thinks the batteries voltage is high enough? It shuts itself off. OK, see how I figured that out now? The work around with my mod can be very simple: Just carry an extra battery at the voltage battery manager likes like 17 volts and plug that into the balance connector. You will be pleasantly surprised to see it come on. Now you can formally turn battery manager off. You can then plug the fully charged battery into the other side, BM won't care, then unplug the temp battery, and finally plug in the second battery.

The test went normally. Stability was solid. This wasn't intended to be a timed test, but I can tell they are slightly less than standard, as expected.

 

[Ed209]

Ehhhhh? [emoji849]

 

[GadgetGuy]

Currently go here
Phantom 3 Power Mod V3 save 25 % during February.
Depending on USA demand we can make them available for the USA market.

There is definitely demand.
How can I order one now from the USA, given the Lipo shipping restrictions?

 

[GadgetGuy]

I got mine directly from the UK this is a picture of the entire mod the white rails you see in the picture are the brackets they are riveted into the landing gear.

I'm certainly willing, at their 25% discounted price, to help offset the shipping costs. My only concern was sending and receiving the two needed batteries, when the website says "we can't ship Lipos out of the UK." How do you rivet the brackets to the landing gear without shipping the bird in, too?

 

[GadgetGuy]

View attachment 44890 I'm pretty sure they come with the kit.

Awesome! Thank you! Hopefully, they will chime back in with confirmation. Did you just buy both batteries from them, or send in two of yours?

 

[KyleMaxxUAV]

I did a routine run at the incredible height of 3 feet with dual Venom 2300's. They are 4s HVs and weigh in at 211 each. OK, look, right now I haven't finished sorting out my firmware, and I haven't clearly settled on the correct versions I am going to run off-line on transmitter and bird. I am supposed to be looking for my German scientist so we can re-write the firmware and make it open source, but this battery thing really got my attention. I'll have the German include the battery code too... So yeah, I'm flying three feet high until I feel confident about all this...

I think I know why aftermarket customizers stayed away from this particular modification. It is very easy to misinterpret what the battery manager is doing. I happen to have the benefit of having read a lot of dialog concerning this manager and was able to correctly interpret cause and effect behavior. I am just explaining this to offer some sort of a reasonable explanation as to why no one else is doing it. Others aren't, presumably because they are making conservative choices for their clients.

When I prepped for the test flight, I took the pair of batteries right off the charger and proceeded to hook it up the way I had many times before. But every time I connected the balance connector, I got a single flash from the manager, then nothing. Normally, the unit simply turns on. I did my reset routine with no success. OK... Is what everyone been talking about all this time correct, after all? This dang little manager will kick in whenever it feels like it, and refuse to work if it is the wrong battery......

But wait a minute... what has changed besides time since the last successful startup of the battery manager(?) The batteries were charged to full I mentioned this phenomenon earlier in the context of the master/slave configuration. You have a similar problem. When the battery manager is charging the batteries, what does it do when it thinks the batteries voltage is high enough? It shuts itself off. OK, see how I figured that out now? The work around with my mod can be very simple: Just carry an extra battery at the voltage battery manager likes like 17 volts and plug that into the balance connector. You will be pleasantly surprised to see it come on. Now you can formally turn battery manager off. You can then plug the fully charged battery into the other side, BM won't care, then unplug the temp battery, and finally plug in the second battery.

The test went normally. Stability was solid. This wasn't intended to be a timed test, but I can tell they are slightly less than standard, as expected.

I would love to do a "naked" or torn down version of the p3 !!! Similar to the matrice !! Carbon fiber !! Keep me posted when you start that project !!


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[phantom13flyer]

Thanks for sharing those. So, what are your thoughts about it at this time? Is it worth all the trouble and aggravation? Would you do it again? Is it giving you the same range of video to accompany the radio range with the FPVLR v2 setup with 2.5A boosters? Would going to a 3.0A booster for the video reception side of the transmitter regain the 20% video range lost with the new motor birds? Are you using Auto Channel, or channel 22 to get the benefit of the transmitter amp on the video, or have you disconnected that booster? Do we know the frequency the airside booster is optimized for, to select a compatible channel frequency?

So far it hasn't been worth the trouble . However I do feel once I get some better weather and more testing I will end up with better range and penetration . I definitely feel better about it now than I did in the beginning but if I had to do all over I wouldn't have messed with it. I've only been using auto , I'll try 22 next and see what that does . And I'm not sure about the booster frequency, that's a great questions !

 

[Kevin M]

[ QUOTE="phantom13flyer, post: 690882, member: 26537"]So far it hasn't been worth the trouble . However I do feel once I get some better weather and more testing I will end up with better range and penetration . I definitely feel better about it now than I did in the beginning but if I had to do all over I wouldn't have messed with it. I've only been using auto , I'll try 22 next and see what that does . And I'm not sure about the booster frequency, that's a great questions ![/QUOTE]

Phantom 13,
I have been using channel 30 for months now, since I got the bird side antenna mount and switch to channel 22 I'm pounding out 5 miles strong no problem that's A huge difference for northern New Jersey, I am so polluted with Wi-Fi interference.

Kevin

 

[Ed209]

A huge difference for northern New Jersey, I am so polluted with Wi-Fi interference.

Polluted with guidos too Coming from an ex NJ fist pumper!

 

[GadgetGuy]

So far it hasn't been worth the trouble . However I do feel once I get some better weather and more testing I will end up with better range and penetration . I definitely feel better about it now than I did in the beginning but if I had to do all over I wouldn't have messed with it. I've only been using auto , I'll try 22 next and see what that does . And I'm not sure about the booster frequency, that's a great questions !

Without a birdside mod, using just the FPVLR v2 mod with both 2.5A Sunhans boosters, I have tried Auto Channel and Custom 22 and 21 and 20 with far worse results than I had with Channel 30 which shows no interference at all, while all the others under 23 are saturated with heavy interference. Amplifying interference won't improve the video. I'm replacing the 2.5A video booster tonight with a 3.0A one, with lots of hope. Also, under Autochannel, the video bitrate selection disappeared, so I could not select 4 anymore, and when I went back to Custom, the previous bitrate of 4 was changed back to 6. Don't try changing from AutoChannel to Custom video channels in the air. I lost all video for several minutes including the RC connection! Also Autochannel can't use the 32 channel hack, if you have it installed. It limits you to the limited approved DJI channels only. Only way to use the 32 channel hack is to use Custom and select from one of the channels above 20.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Phantom 13,
I have been using channel 30 for months now, since I got the bird side antenna mount and switch to channel 22 I'm pounding out 5 miles strong no problem that's A huge difference for northern New Jersey, I am so polluted with Wi-Fi interference.

Kevin

So the birdside amp is also designed using the same frequencies as the transmitter boosters which won't work on channels above 23? Do you turn off the video booster on the RC?

 

[phantom13flyer]

Without a birdside mod, using just the FPVLR v2 mod with both 2.5A Sunhans boosters, I have tried Auto Channel and Custom 22 and 21 and 20 with far worse results than I had with Channel 30 which shows no interference at all, while all the others under 23 are saturated with heavy interference. Amplifying interference won't improve the video. I'm replacing the 2.5A video booster tonight with a 3.0A one, with lots of hope. Also, under Autochannel, the video bitrate selection disappeared, so I could not select 4 anymore, and when I went back to Custom, the previous bitrate of 4 was changed back to 6. Don't try changing from AutoChannel to Custom video channels in the air. I lost all video for several minutes including the RC connection! Also Autochannel can't use the 32 channel hack, if you have it installed. It limits you to the limited approved DJI channels only. Only way to use the 32 channel hack is to use Custom and select from one of the channels above 20.

Have you tried a 3rd party app ?? One like litchi that has 31 channels with auto select ?

 

[GadgetGuy]

Have you tried a 3rd party app ?? One like litchi that has 31 channels with auto select ?

I have not, but I may have to. Are you using Litchi yourself? Without a birdside video amplification, my current newly degraded results with the new motor bird are horribly disappointing. I would prefer to stay with the DJI GO app that I am most familiar with, but that also includes consistently losing FPV every time, at anything beyond 3 miles, without ascending to 400 feet, which sucks for waves and surf at the beach and around the piers.

 

[phantom13flyer]

It's kind of a shame all this extra work is going to be a waste in a couple weeks when the p4 comes out with 35 mins flight time stock.

 

[GadgetGuy]

It's kind of a shame all this extra work is going to be a waste in a couple weeks when the p4 comes out with 35 mins flight time stock.

Not if they can't support it with long range FPV with a birdside video amplifier. Just give us back the original video power from the W323 bird! I've already got 29 minutes with my current setup, and a 5+ mile control range. It will take 6+ months after release to get all the bugs out of a P4 which won't be available for purchase for at least 3 months. We've got plenty of gap time to fill, and save $1,700!

 

[phantom13flyer]

Not if they can't support it with long range FPV with a birdside video amplifier. Just give us back the original video power from the W323 bird! I've already got 29 minutes with my current setup, and a 5+ mile control range. It will take 6+ months after release to get all the bugs out of a P4 which won't be available for purchase for at least 3 months. We've got plenty of gap time to fill, and save $1,700!

It will definitely be awhile before the bugs are worked out but with the p3 it was better to get one of the ones made in the beginning . It will be a big mistake to put limits on the range of the p4. I'm expecting a height limit of 400 ft like the typhoon H but hopefully they will incorporate lightbridge 2 with 1080 live view and a 3+ plus stock range. Have you seen the teaser video that dji just released of the p4? The new shell looks awesome and it definitely has avoidance optics .

 

[GadgetGuy]

It will definitely be awhile before the bugs are worked out but with the p3 it was better to get one of the ones made in the beginning . It will be a big mistake to put limits on the range of the p4. I'm expecting a height limit of 400 ft like the typhoon H but hopefully they will incorporate lightbridge 2 with 1080 live view and a 3+ plus stock range. Have you seen the teaser video that dji just released of the p4? The new shell looks awesome and it definitely has avoidance optics .

You make a good point about the initial versions being the best, before they started cutting costs in manufacturing! 400 foot height limits without Lidar to determine ground level below the aircraft would be crippling for those flying over hilly terrain like me. Each successive version of the P1 has made major improvements. 1080 live view at long range would be awesome with 3+ mile stock range from 30 minute stock batteries. New mods for that bird would be awesome! March 1 here we come. Disappointment will make our current P3P efforts worthwhile!