Drone pilot could face charges in connection with deadly crash

Could be more like .... rescue helicopter did a go around cause someone on the ground thought they saw a drone in the area. This is a story lacking any real facts sept a car crash wet roads speed injured people.
Getting sick of drone bashing
 
Could be more like .... rescue helicopter did a go around cause someone on the ground thought they saw a drone in the area. This is a story lacking any real facts sept a car crash wet roads speed injured people.
Getting sick of drone bashing
That's not what that news article reported. The Flight Care helicopter could not land until the drone was secured and the police were with the drone pilot. It was a short article, but the facts were pretty straight forward. There are other articles about that accident with similar facts. Like this one.

It's not drone bashing when the drone pilot is flying where he is not supposed to be flying. And a man died.
 
Something a bit fishy here. No drone can survive the "down-wash" of even the smallest two-place helio.

Your reasoning is flawed partially. If you slowly flew the UAS into a hovering helo the downwash would have some effect on the UAS but.. that's not real life at all. In real life there will be forward speed/momentum to deal with and somewhere (on this very forum I think) the #'s have been crunched and it was determined that a fairly brisk head-on situation the downwash would only push the UAS down a foot or so before impacting with the windscreen on the full sized helo.
 
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Could be more like .... rescue helicopter did a go around cause someone on the ground thought they saw a drone in the area. This is a story lacking any real facts sept a car crash wet roads speed injured people.
Getting sick of drone bashing


Drone bashing? Seriously? Did you even read all the details noted? It wasn't random and here-say but the operator was located and the UAS secured/grounded. It wasn't a matter of "I thought I saw a drone" but a matter of there was a drone, drone operator and an investigation is now in process.

So let's not get on the high horse and assume it didn't really happen. While some of the details might be "iffy" fact of the matter is there WAS a drone flying in the area and out of an abundance of caution the MediVac did abort it's approach and circled the area until the UAS was secured on the ground.
 
Something a bit fishy here. No drone can survive the "down-wash" of even the smallest two-place helio.

There are all manner of special interests who are bitterly opposed to the idea that we "Joe Average" types now have a device to go see what is going on.

Be fair ! How would YOU feel if you were able to put food on the table with your helio gathering news, and/or you were conducting a business that was doing bad things, and some clown with a drone can get photos and expose you?

I would have to agree with you. My tbs disco was blown straight down to ground from the wash. was flying in my backyard when a heli flew right by me. I have power lines in my backyard and i think they were inspecting them but they came up super quick and low. I am pretty sure it was not legal for them. My nephew freaked out and ran inside. But there is no way a quad can withstand the wash. only if it was above the heli and came down on it. I tried having my nephew film me flying my goblin heli 3d with the p4 and when it got close he would lose control.
 
I would have to agree with you. My tbs disco was blown straight down to ground from the wash. was flying in my backyard when a heli flew right by me. I have power lines in my backyard and i think they were inspecting them but they came up super quick and low. I am pretty sure it was not legal for them. My nephew freaked out and ran inside. But there is no way a quad can withstand the wash. only if it was above the heli and came down on it. I tried having my nephew film me flying my goblin heli 3d with the p4 and when it got close he would lose control.


As was pointed out before the amount a drone might be pushed down by the helicopters rotor wash will depend on the relative speed of the drone and helo. Generally speaking helos don't just sit still and if you're flying your drone and a helo comes along the amount of time the downwash might have to push the drone down could be much less than a second. There is not much of a downwash effect outside of the rotor disk area and with a diameter of even 40 feet, which would be on the large side, the distance from the edge of the disk to the canopy might well be on the order of 10 feet and at a relative speed of, say, 60mph or 88fps that would give you about 0.114 seconds for the rotor wash to push the drone below the copter. Yeah, no!

Brian
 
It's not so much the speed of the wash, as turbulence, think blender.

That difference is irrelevant ... if the copter is moving at 60mph the wash is only going to have about a 1/10 of a second to alter the path of the drone and whether the wash is laminar or turbulent makes zero difference!


Brian
 
That difference is irrelevant ... if the copter is moving at 60mph the wash is only going to have about a 1/10 of a second to alter the path of the drone and whether the wash is laminar or turbulent makes zero difference!


Brian
Have you ever flown in rotor turbulence?
 
Fine, don't let facts get in the way.:cool:


Please, you're living in denial and a gotta say it annoys me that folks on this very board are so clueless about the risks.

Here's the deal -- at the kinds of speeds a helicopter is likely to be moving a drone that was below the plane of the rotor is not likely to be deflected by the downwash by more than a foot or two before impact AND, a drone that is above the rotor might well be pulled down by a 3-5 feet as we're not talking 10 feet from rotor edge to canopy but the full 30-40 feet of the rotor. In other words the rotor wash will actually INCREASE the chance of impact because the drone above the rotor will be more deflected towards the rotor than the drone below the rotor being deflected below the copter.

Lastly, the turbulence of which you speak would have little or no effect on the drone AND the turbulence is not likely to be very much if the copter is above the ground effect. A copter flying at 50 feet above the ground may well produce turbulence in the downwash NEAR THE GROUND but not near the copter itself. Yeah, there will be some rotor tip vortices but that will not matter for the reasons I've already given several times.


Brian
 
Only an idiot would put a drone over a crash scene......but it sounds like they wanted to make an example of him.
 
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I'm playing devil's advocate here so don't get pissed at me. But, what relevant FAR was violated? Maybe he was flying in the area and was totally unaware of the accident. Nothing was stated about any NOTAMS or proximity to airports nor anything about the UAS pilot's intent. A temporary landing area is established for accident sites and the person responsible for landing zone clearance is on the ground (usually State Police) with the PIC in the aircraft making the go/no go decision. That person should have been the one calling for a hold on landing operations if there was any traffic in the area including UAS.

I am also a licensed fixed wing pilot and have over 200 hours in Army helicopters as pilot in command, granted it was a very long time ago, but I am still a licensed pilot and received my UAS license this year. I cannot recall any legal responsibility for a UAS pilot flying in this kind of operational area. Of course, common sense would make me get the hell out of Dodge and maybe that is what happened? It could also have been deliberate interference and that would require a legal test of intent. A lot depends on the flight record and what the UAS pilot said if he said anything at all which if he was smart he didn't.

I will add that where I live in Hungary our town is a regional medivac center and the birds fly way below the legal limit very often. We also have crop sprayers flying less than 100 feet over our town roughly once a month spraying for mosquitoes. There are never any warnings or NOTAMS for these operations. So, like someone said here you need to pay close attention to what is going on around you when flying.

I will also add that rotor turbulence is enormous and in particular when operating in ground effect. I recall landing a Cessna 177RG onto an Army airfield where a Huey was doing a hover test off on a taxiway next to the runway. When I hit his rotor wash I immediately gained over 200 feet in altitude and had to do a go-around. I had no control over the aircraft's altitude until I was out of the turbulence. The same thing happened to me in San Antonio taxiing a Rockwell 112 behind an idling 747 and I was nearly blown over. I also experienced this at altitude when I hit the wing vortex of a 757 that had passed overhead (by at least 5,000 feet). I did an uncontrollable barrel roll in that wake turbulence. So, based on my personal experiences I tend to agree that a Phantom 4 is not going to be controllable if it is in rotor wash at all. Maybe it could bust through it but I doubt it. It flies relative to the air it is in. These are not powerful aircraft and are very difficult to fly in moderate winds so a helicopter is going to be far worse. That said if I was the pilot of the helicopter (and I am assuming it was a single pilot bird which is common now) I wouldn't land either if there was any doubt about the landing area. at all. A case against the UAS pilot for death of the patient would be extremely difficult to prove. He was already in critical condition enough to require medivac so he was already very likely to die anyway. It sounds callous but that is the way it is. Medivacs are a hail Mary for many accident victims.
 
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As to OP, if dronist didn't know emergency helicopter was on
way & wasn't flying directly over people, other than using common
sense, what rule-law was being violated, assuming dronist
was hobbyist acting as occasional citizen journalist?

Being asked by novice not wanting to make similar
:eek: :eek: :eek: kinds of mistakes!
 
To quote another phantom pilot "And that's why we can't have nice things"
I say that all the time. I have 4 boys and a girl. I'm all for trying to get dramatic shots but being nosy etc but it's not right if you hear a helicopter and see it close to you you know your not supposed to be near aircraft in the first place go away and come back when it leaves. For Pete sake.
 
I think what people are missing, arguing the theoretical impact zones and how much turbulence/downwash would affect a drone, is that helicopters are manned. Lifeflight/medflight/careflight, or whatever carrier is in your area of the country, pilots are paid to save lives. They go out in, sometimes, really crappy weather and risk their and the crew's lives to help a complete stranger. As a former Black Hawk pilot, I can tell you that even the smallest drones strike terror in our hearts when seen from a cockpit. A helicopter being flown at 70-160 kias has very little time to react once the pilots see a 2' drone. We are busy scanning the ground for wires and the sky for other aircraft while talking, at times, to multiple people on multiple radios. And the drone may go through the windscreen. That never scared me as much as it getting sucked into an engine. That's what we were always worried about. Regardless, don't put a pilot's life at risk to get a "really neat picture".

Also, trying to predict how much a drone is impacted by rotorwash is about impossible. For one thing, a rotor is not a static force. Whether the aircraft is accelerating, decelerating, ascending, descending, flying into the wind, or quartering into/away from it, what the weather conditions are (updrafts, downdrafts, wind shear) and at what rate would tremendously impact the downwash. In fact, if you're decelerating quickly, the rotorwash is actually upward. And all these modes of flight, in varying degrees, is about impossible to tell from the ground. Of course you can tell if an aircraft is ascending/descending quickly, but that type of flight doesn't happen as often as you'd think.
 
There is a lot of negative on drones. I just don't understand everything in the story. I am ignorant about the danger here. If the helicopter hovered over the area, would the drone pilot vacated the area as FAA states? Maybe that's all it would have taken.

I have a helicopter fly under 500 ft. Over my house which worries me almost every day. I can't tell who it is. I give way as fast as I can, but he is flying fast. That's what I get for living on the top of a mountain.
I have the same problem. I live on top of a Ridge with a military base about 30 miles away. I'm always watching and listening as they fly really close when coming over the Ridge. So far all is well.
 
I have a life flight route between 2 hospitals. Their altitude is low because the distance between the hospitals is 2 miles and they are so loud I can hear them when they take off and fly over my head. Even though I have all these indications of the fact that there could possibly be a life flight being flown over my head I WOULD BE CRAZY TO EVEN FLY MY DRONE.

If you have a drone that can fly further than 100 feet away from you then you have no business flying it in any city or around any emergency. The pilot of the drone should have known that life flight was coming because they weren't putting the injured man in the ambulance and driving away. First responders prepare for life flight and if the drone pilot was getting video of the accident it would have been obvious it was time to bring the drone home. I don't know if he was an idiot or if some cop or first responder had an ax to grind. I still do not understand why first responders don't have a drone jammer that would ground the drone. It is as simple as a 100 watt cell phone jammer.

Like I always find myself saying on this website.Get away from the city. Find some cool place to get video of. Don't give drone haters an excuse to make us all look bad. Don't give DJI an excuse to further limit how and where we can fly.

Have a great day.. go fly your drone!
 
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