Crash from 80 feet, total destruction

[ianwood]

So if I drive 100mph and aggressively yank the steering wheel thus flipping my car, is the manufacturer to blame for poor UI design? After all, using a steering wheel to turn is a valid driving command.

Good UI dictates you should be able to simultaneously press the brake and gas pedals all the way down and turn the wheel 100%. Because everyone does that!

Frankly, I'd rather have the car shut off at that point because clearly I've lost it!

Also worth noting cars do exactly that. Crash sensors cut fuel and lock the transmission.

 

[N017RW]

No, the drone steering command that is overridden by the CSC shutdown command is a valid command and not one that would endanger the craft. The failure is coming from from the alternate functionality added to steering that is accidentally getting triggered. So in your example it would be if you made a safe and valid (but rare) turn of the steering wheel and press of the brake and the car decided instead of turning while braking you will now shift into reverse and blew out your transmission.

Just by membership here alone it would seem you are in the minority on this. I respect your opinion but disagree. Unless you come from a CP-heli 3D background I'd guess you've never put the sticks in that combo for any aircraft prior.

This and other debates reoccur here cyclically as new Phantom operators join the ranks and this forum. So many here have already debated this to the logical end... which is nothing will change.

 

[MystryBox]

Just by membership here alone it would seem you are in the minority on this. I respect your opinion but disagree. Unless you come from a CP-heli 3D background I'd guess you've never put the sticks in that combo for any aircraft prior.

This and other debates reoccur here cyclically as new Phantom operators join the ranks and this forum. So many here have already debated this to the logical end... which is nothing will change.

I'll leave those with the expert backgrounds to explain to those that have destroyed their drones how you never put the flight control sticks in that combination. I'm more a process-driven guy who observes and makes continual improvements based on what I observe actually happens. Maybe the fact it keeps coming up might be food for thought for those who don't like to change. For myself I know I've come uncomfortably close to that combo in a maneuver that corkscrews my smaller drone down rapidly (as a way to avoid VRS), but I admit I'm no drone expert.

However, the question of how rare the combo might be is irrelevant to my main point. Regardless of how rare the stick configuration is, it's a valid configuration and from a UI design perspective it's bad to have a completely unrelated function jammed over well known controls like that. It's unbelievably asinine to have that unrelated function able to destroy the craft. That my view expressed here might be in a minority doesn't make it any less accurate.

 

[bbfpv]

Dude give it a rest. It doesn't 'keep coming up'. If it was such a problem, everyone would be crashing. If you decide to 'corkscrew' at full stick to avoid VRS then you deserve to crash, even more so since CSC is very well documented all over the Internet. And if someone is so irresponsible as to not read the manual for a $1k investment, then they either don't give ****, or are irresponsible. Either way, natural selection kicks in and the bird crashes. If you don't like the stick combo, go tell DJI. What makes your view less relevant is you keep repeating your view. We know where you stand. It's not going to change how CSC works. Complain to DJI.

 

[MystryBox]

Dude give it a rest. It doesn't 'keep coming up'. If it was such a problem, everyone would be crashing. If you decide to 'corkscrew' at full stick to avoid VRS then you deserve to crash, even more so since CSC is very well documented all over the Internet. And if someone is so irresponsible as to not read the manual for a $1k investment, then they either don't give ****, or are irresponsible. Either way, natural selection kicks in and the bird crashes. If you don't like the stick combo, go tell DJI. What makes your view less relevant is you keep repeating your view. We know where you stand. It's not going to change how CSC works. Complain to DJI.

I wasn't the one who claimed the problem kept coming up. N017RW said the debates reoccur here cyclically and I replied to his comment--if you disagree with him maybe you should take it up with him.

I'm repeating my points in responses made to me in the discussion when it's relevant. If reading opinion on the subject somehow bothers you maybe you shouldn't be reading a thread on the issue?

 

[bbfpv]

I wasn't the one who claimed the problem kept coming up. N017RW said the debates reoccur here cyclically and I replied to his comment--if you disagree with him maybe you should take it up with him.

I'm repeating my points in responses to discussion. If reading opinion on the subject bothers you maybe you shouldn't be reading a thread on the issue?

The 'problem' comes up because newbies don't RTFM. That was his point. And tbh, if one isn't responsible enough to do one's homework, then crash. I could not care less. But to say it's a flawed design because you don't agree with it, and then back it up with the evidence of people who don't bother with due diligence is, in your words, asinine. All I'm going to say on the matter. Good day.

I wasn't the one who claimed the problem kept coming up. N017RW said the debates reoccur here cyclically and I replied to his comment--if you disagree with him maybe you should take it up with him.

I'm repeating my points in responses made to me in the discussion when it's relevant. If reading opinion on the subject somehow bothers you maybe you shouldn't be reading a thread on the issue?

 

[MystryBox]

The 'problem' comes up because newbies don't RTFM. That was his point. And tbh, if one isn't responsible enough to do one's homework, then crash. I could not care less. But to say it's a flawed design because you don't agree with it, and then back it up with the evidence of people who don't bother with due diligence is, in your words, asinine. All I'm going to say on the matter. Good day.

I agree newbies should read the manual. I agree reading the manual would likely prevent many of the issues from happening. The design should still change though, then the entire problem and discussion of the problem would go away (and wouldn't that be nice). Thanks, you have a good day too.

 

[Mohan Patel]

Pictures:View attachment 21348 View attachment 21349 View attachment 21348 View attachment 21349 View attachment 21353

I lost mine same way but mine was only 10 ft high P3 was ok but broke camera and gimble it is sitting at Los Angeles DJI for review they have not even looked at it it is sitting there for last 4 weeks

 

[fhk]

My take is this is built-in to sell more phantoms. Everybody that this has happened to is probably going to buy another. A "safety feature"? I don't think so. What scenario could you think of that you would need to immediately cut power and crash your phantom? What emergency scenario would you have that you would think to do this csc in a panic? I am guessing that future updates will not remove this feature. Flight log says totally your fault, sorry, RTFM, sincerely, DJI.

 

[Meta4]

My take is this is built-in to sell more phantoms. Everybody that this has happened to is probably going to buy another.

Again .. this is something that scares new flyers but is no issue for anyone that's flown a Phantom for a while.
There's a big gap between what you imagine and what the real situation is.
It is much talked about by newbies in forums but it's very rare that anyone does this in flight by accident.
DJI wouldn't even notice the extra sales based on CSC crashes. - It's really rare.

A "safety feature"? I don't think so. What scenario could you think of that you would need to immediately cut power and crash your phantom?

A safety feature - YES, definitely.
Although it's frequently mentioned in forums, I can't think of a scenario where you would do need to immediately cut power and crash your phantom.
This would be extremely rare if it ever happens.

What emergency scenario would you have that you would think to do this csc in a panic? I am guessing that future updates will not remove this feature. Flight log says totally your fault, sorry, RTFM, sincerely, DJI.

But I can imagine lots of scenarios where you would want to be able to immediately stop the spinning rotors on a crashed phantom.
Once you fly for a while it should all make sense to you and you'll see how CSC just isn't something you do by accident.

 

[Ezookiel]

The ...But to say it's a flawed design because you don't agree with it, ....

That's not what he's saying. He's saying it's a bad design FULLSTOP. And he's right. It is a stupidly bad design!
And it has already been shown that a spiral descent which is a perfectly acceptable manoeuvre, is only a gnat's **** away from shutting off the motors. IF it was a stick combo that simply cannot make any sense as a manoeuvre, then you may have a point, but that one stick combo isn't an unreasonable stick combo.
There used to be four combos. Remove the ones that are actually close to a sensible manoeuvre such as a spiral descent, and the problem is solved.

However, I do agree that arguing here is pointless. Those who cannot see the inherent problem in the design, will always be blind, and simply say the manual tells you about it.
Those who understand that the only way to get great design is to see a fault in a good design, and remove the fault, but they'll be preaching to the wrong people. It really does need to be brought up with DJI.
However, we all know how slowly a company like DJI moves, it's like turning an aircraft carrier - as evidenced by the fact that they're now up to the 3rd iteration of the Phantom and they still haven't changed the fault. It really does need to move to a debate with DJI rather than a debate here. It's never going to change anyone's mind here.

 

[herein2014]

I probably shouldn't even comment here but I can't resist. By this point I've flown over 300hrs with my P2 (that's a conservative estimate), I've filmed everything from waterfalls in the mountains to multi-million dollar construction sites for major construction companies, more houses than I can count, and more aerial tours than I can count, and I can tell you that I have never even came close to performing a mid-air CSC.

If you think a potential CSC is even remotely close to being a problem, go fly a 400 scale full CP heli then come back and tell me how long you managed to stay in the air, that's assuming you even managed to get off of the ground.

In my opinion everyone here stating it is a design flaw seriously needs to box up their Phantom and ship it back to where they got it from and stick to something that can't leave the ground. I can think of many scenarios where you need to INSTANTLY kill the power:

1) Propeller comes off middair
2) Bird strike
3) Loss of directional control due to some other strike
4) Avoidance of a full size aircraft
5) etc, etc

In ANY situation where I have lost control over the craft or if I were to encounter a situation where it looked like I would collide with a full size aircraft I absolutely want to be able to instantly kill the power to what just became a flying out of control lawnmower. No 3 second delay, no hunting for a kill switch, no 5 step button sequence that I have never performed before.

In fact, I think DJI's choice of CSC shutdown is actually brilliant; it is the exact same position that is used to start the motors. And when your flying lawnmower does get out of control and you are in panic mode I can guarantee you the CSC sequence will be the only thing you remember. To the posters complaining this is a design flaw, how do you start and stop your car's engine? How many of you are complaining that turning off your car while you are driving shouldn't be so easy?

More people need to realize that the Phantom is an aerial camera platform, not a toy, not a stunt quad. There has never been a need for me to perform some crazy spiral while filming. In fact the more axis that are in play during a maneuver the less likely the footage will be usable. When I want to perform crazy maneuvers I fire up my RC CP 450 heli or take my Hubsan x4 through an obstacle course at full speed - tons of fun, cheap repair cost, no risk to others.

 

[envisionabove]

The OP last came here on June 8th...

 

[JackFlash-P3P]

What is CSC?

... Oh wait I just RTFM

 

[Mal_PV2_Ireland]

Csc is not a design flaw, it's actually an amazing design success that you can quickly emergency shutdown with 4 separate stick positions and people don't do it accidentally, sorry people do it but if you don't rtfm it's your own fault. It's a stick input that's in place for years and a design that should stay. Have a problem with it? Sell your dji equipment and stop moaning and whinging. Grow up and get over it and acting like a stupid spoiled child.
You are trying to make a problem where there is none, stop being small minded, csc has worked very well for years. It's not broke so it doesn't need to be fixed, simple

 

[ELHEAPO]

I agree newbies should read the manual. I agree reading the manual would likely prevent many of the issues from happening. The design should still change though, then the entire problem and discussion of the problem would go away (and wouldn't that be nice). Thanks, you have a good day too.

bloody hell you two get a room!!

 

[MystryBox]

I was researching this history of this CSC accidental shut down issue and found someone complaining on another forum that they let their relative fly the done while it was high in the air thinking it should be ok and the relative inadvertently triggered a CSC shutdown and destroyed the bird. The moral is don't let anyone fly your phantom, especially with this "feature" on the flight control sticks.

 

[Marlin009]

I was researching this history of this CSC accidental shut down issue and found someone complaining on another forum that they let their relative fly the done while it was high in the air thinking it should be ok and the relative inadvertently triggered a CSC shutdown and destroyed the bird. The moral is don't let anyone fly your phantom that hasn't RTFM especially with this "feature" on the flight control sticks.

FIFY.

 

[Mal_PV2_Ireland]

I was researching this history of this CSC accidental shut down issue and found someone complaining on another forum that they let their relative fly the done while it was high in the air thinking it should be ok and the relative inadvertently triggered a CSC shutdown and destroyed the bird. The moral is don't let anyone fly your phantom, especially with this "feature" on the flight control sticks.

By all means let them fly if they have RTFM
DING DING I get to post round 2

 

[Mal_PV2_Ireland]