Class E (700' floor) airport manager tells me I can't fly. Now what?

[sar104]

I think we can certainly agree to that point. But I'm not going to fault them for what they did. There is NEVER anything inappropriate about calling the airport or ATC if you are in question, so on that point we can just agree to disagree. You can ask any controller out there, they'd rather a pilot ask if they are uncertain, rather than just do. I know the airports around where I live appreciate a phone call, whether I'm required to notify them or not by law or regulation.

Yes - we are going to disagree here. A courtesy call to an airport is one thing. A request to an airport manager that doesn't even apply to Part 107 operations, followed by an appeal to an internet forum for an explanation of the confusing answer, instead of referring to the regulations, is quite different.

 

[BigAl07]

One thing to keep in mind is that it's a "Directive" for us to use the Online Portal (not law) but the majority of ATC realize that the online portal is indeed the "requested" and desired method for getting authorization (only way for a waiver). So many people (usually those who just got their Part 107 Cert) are quick to say, "It's the law per Part 107 that you use the portal." That's factually not true. The law states "Must get approval" but does not (YET) state the exact specific process to acquire said approval.

If the ATC (or whoever you're calling) does give you direct permission then they are assuming (at least to some degree) the responsibility of such an action. Usually they will merely acknowledge the request or deny but NOT give permission. As Part 107 operation you must get APPROVAL.

 

[sar104]

One thing to keep in mind is that it's a "Directive" for us to use the Online Portal (not law) but the majority of ATC realize that the online portal is indeed the "requested" and desired method for getting authorization (only way for a waiver). So many people (usually those who just got their Part 107 Cert) are quick to say, "It's the law per Part 107 that you use the portal." That's factually not true. The law states "Must get approval" but does not (YET) state the exact specific process to acquire said approval.

If the ATC (or whoever you're calling) does give you direct permission then they are assuming (at least to some degree) the responsibility of such an action. Usually they will merely acknowledge the request or deny but NOT give permission. As Part 107 operation you must get APPROVAL.

The FAA FAQ on operations states quite clearly that ATC may not grant approval and that it must be done via the portal.

Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) Frequently Asked Questions

Can I contact my local air traffic control tower or facility directly to request airspace permission?
No. All airspace permission requests must be made through the online portal.

 

[dronexchange]

One thing to keep in mind is that it's a "Directive" for us to use the Online Portal (not law) but the majority of ATC realize that the online portal is indeed the "requested" and desired method for getting authorization (only way for a waiver). So many people (usually those who just got their Part 107 Cert) are quick to say, "It's the law per Part 107 that you use the portal." That's factually not true. The law states "Must get approval" but does not (YET) state the exact specific process to acquire said approval.

If the ATC (or whoever you're calling) does give you direct permission then they are assuming (at least to some degree) the responsibility of such an action. Usually they will merely acknowledge the request or deny but NOT give permission. As Part 107 operation you must get APPROVAL.

Exactly! Some of the things the FAA is doing can be very confusing to even experienced pilots, not to mention confusing the snot out of new ones. This is absolutely one of them that causes the most grief. Recently, I submitted thru the online portal a request to fly in Class D airspace at an Air Force Base, receiving no reply, of course. I knew someone who knew the base commander and within 15 minutes, I had ATC approval directly from the watch commander. This approval was fully legal. The FAA has sent out instructions to towers to direct people to the portal, but approval is all that is required. The law is silent as to form.

 

[sar104]

Exactly! Some of the things the FAA is doing can be very confusing to even experienced pilots, not to mention confusing the snot out of new ones. This is absolutely one of them that causes the most grief. Recently, I submitted thru the online portal a request to fly in Class D airspace at an Air Force Base, receiving no reply, of course. I knew someone who knew the base commander and within 15 minutes, I had ATC approval directly from the watch commander. This approval was fully legal. The FAA has sent out instructions to towers to direct people to the portal, but approval is all that is required. The law is silent as to form.

Part 107 (law) says that ATC approval is required. The FAA has chosen to require that to be via the online portal, not via local ATC. It's not ambiguous, and it's not optional, at least according to the FAA.

 

[dronexchange]

Part 107 (law) says that ATC approval is required. The FAA has chosen to require that to be via the online portal, not via local ATC. It's not ambiguous, and it's not optional, at least according to the FAA.

We'll have to agree to disagree again. Safe flying!

 

[sar104]

We'll have to agree to disagree again. Safe flying!

OK. I'm not clear on this issue what you are disagreeing with though. It's in black and white, on the website, as I quoted and linked above.

 

[BigAl07]

The website is not "Law" and as such is not officially "Binding" or "enforceable". 14CFR Part 107 (and it's preamble) are what constitute the actual law that we as commercial drone pilots in the U.S. are to follow. The law requires approval from ATC. 107.41, Operations In Certain Airspace reads, "No person may operate a small unmanned aircraft in Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class E airspace designated for an airport unless that person has prior authorization from Air Traffic Control (ATC)." And in the preamble there is no mention of the method for this approval, and even states "ATC facilities have the authority to approve or deny aircraft operations based on traffic density, controller workload, communications issues, or any other type of operation that would potentially impact the safe and expeditious flow of air traffic" on page 201 of the preamble, under Part ii, Radio Equipment.

While I whole heartedly think you "should" use the Portal and feel like very few ATC will give actual permission to perform Part 107 in "Controlled" airspace there is the off chance that a call to a non-busy ATC can give you immediate approval.

 

[sar104]

The website is not "Law" and as such is not officially "Binding" or "enforceable". 14CFR Part 107 (and it's preamble) are what constitute the actual law that we as commercial drone pilots in the U.S. are to follow. The law requires approval from ATC. 107.41, Operations In Certain Airspace reads, "No person may operate a small unmanned aircraft in Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class E airspace designated for an airport unless that person has prior authorization from Air Traffic Control (ATC)." And in the preamble there is no mention of the method for this approval, and even states "ATC facilities have the authority to approve or deny aircraft operations based on traffic density, controller workload, communications issues, or any other type of operation that would potentially impact the safe and expeditious flow of air traffic" on page 201 of the preamble, under Part ii, Radio Equipment.

While I whole heartedly think you "should" use the Portal and feel like very few ATC will give actual permission to perform Part 107 in "Controlled" airspace there is the off chance that a call to a non-busy ATC can give you immediate approval.

I'd be interested to hear your FAA Liaison's view on this. The law only requires ATC approval, but the FAA owns ATC and has stated that the portal is the only channel for authorization. That doesn't need to be in the law, because the policy that local ATC should not authorize is internal to the FAA - it's not a question of whether it is binding or enforceable on pilots. There is nothing to prevent pilots from asking local ATC for approval, but ATC would clearly be going against the FAA's published position if they were to grant it. I would want it in writing if I were to fly based on local authorization.

 

[BigAl07]

My FAA guy is the one who told me "If ATC gives verbal permission they are assuming some degree of responsibility in that flight which most are not willing to do".

Next time I'm talking with him I'll run this up the flagpole again and see if he has any additional input.