Exactly right, same situation as in my authorization. Curiously, since they closed the tower,carapace around the airport is now Class G. So I can fly between the airport and the class E space without notifying anyone, but need authorization of the E since they still have published instrument approach procedures for the airport.
Authorization Class E surface vs. Class E 700 AGL
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What airport is that? Seems odd that they keep the surface E. Maybe on the next update cycle they'll reclassify?
If the tower has been closed then this information should be available via NOTAM. In this case it should indicate whether the (former) Class D area reverts to all Class-E-to-the-surface, Class G up to 700' AGL or what. It could revert to Class E with a different controlling agency (probably the local Approach control) or have a "G-up-to-700'" profile that approximately matches the existing D+E dotted line silhouette depending on the approach, how low it goes, etc. If it's "E-to-the-surface" then some ATC facility still owns it and needs to be notified.
You can look at the NOTAMs and the IAPs for KFLO and see what's going on out that way - my guess it's either an ILS or a non-precision approach with a fairly low MDA (hence the Class E extension in that direction aligned with the east-west runway). Unless they're ditching the approach that's creating the need for the Class E extension as well as the tower operation, it almost certainly will end up being all "E" to the surface in that area.
What does the Chart Supplement say happens for the hours when the tower was closed? I'd expect they'll just adopt that all the time if the tower goes away for good (unless the approaches are also changing, as mentioned above).
You can look at the NOTAMs and the IAPs for KFLO and see what's going on out that way - my guess it's either an ILS or a non-precision approach with a fairly low MDA (hence the Class E extension in that direction aligned with the east-west runway). Unless they're ditching the approach that's creating the need for the Class E extension as well as the tower operation, it almost certainly will end up being all "E" to the surface in that area.
What does the Chart Supplement say happens for the hours when the tower was closed? I'd expect they'll just adopt that all the time if the tower goes away for good (unless the approaches are also changing, as mentioned above).
That is a very cogent explanation. Still as the article points out it took an interpretation by an FAA attorney to get the enforcement teams to change their ways. This is also an example of the the only way these things often get resolved. Occasionally it may even rise to the level of getting a legal decision by a law judge to finally decide the matter. It definitely leaves me wondering just exactly what the FAA intended with this language? Who wants to compile this and send it to the FAA. It seems the language is confusing enough people that a formal interpretation may be in order. At least armed with this information you would have something concrete to argue should an inspector ever show up and try to ruin your day.
This language had me confused as well. Read this entire comment as the rules are slightly different for a 107 rated pilot vs a hobbyist. I now understand it to mean that a rated pilot can fly ANYWHERE in class G even within 5 miles of an airport (with no requirement to contact the controller) and can also fly in class E EXCEPT within the lateral boundaries of the portion of class E that extends all the way down to the surface. That is why there is extra language associated with class E. Because a rated pilot may not fly in ANY class B, C, or D without authorization but they may fly in class E as long as it is not inside the specified boundaries. So to be extra clear... a remote pilot should be able to fly ANYWHERE if they are operating in class G and the added language in describing class E is actually allowing them to fly in class E as well. Just don't fly within the dotted magenta lines at ANY altitude. If you had to inspect the top of a tall tower, you can fly into class E. FAA advisory circular 107-2 5.8.1 "Unless the flight is conducted within controlled airspace, no notification or authorization is necessary to operate at or near an airport." If you are not rated, you need to contact the airport if within 5 miles.
That's a very good point about inspecting a tall tower outside the magenta dashed line. Very possible to be within E but still within 400 feet of the object. Best explanation for wording regarding class e I've heard. Thanks
As long as the Class E is not Class E surface area, no problem. No authorization needed. This seems to be one of the more commonly confused topics for students prepping for the FAA knowledge test.
Yes - but the only possible way to fly legally in non-surface Class E would be around a tall structure, since all non-surface Class E is at least 700 AGL, i.e. well above the 400 ft limit. Is that the point that you were making?
The point was to clarify the confusing language about class E restrictions. I included the example of inspecting the top of a tall tower which, as we all know, would take you above the 400 ft limit and possibly into class E airspace. You might have to re-read the original post and first several responses to understand what is being clarified in this thread.
The OP's question was clear, and he was incorrect in his interpretation of not being allowed to fly below non-surface Class E. But it was your comment about being OK to fly in Class E except for within the lateral boundaries of surface Class E that caught my attention since that is not correct either unless I misunderstood your post - except, possibly, in the case of flying near a structure that extends upwards into non-surface Class E.
Sir, are you reading my posts? YES, A TOWER/STRUCTURE is what could bring you into class E.
Please don't confuse the issue for everyone else. Anyone reading this, everything in my first post is correct. Why do you think I provided the example of inspecting a a tall tower that would require flight well above 400 ft AGL? Within the limits of what I described in that post you must, OF COURSE, obey the myriad of other rules i.e. don't fly over 400 ft AGL unless flying near a structure that extends upwards beyond 400 ft AGL (possibly into non-surface Class E), don't be drunk, don't intentionally fly into the path of a manned aircraft etc...
Yes - of course I'm reading your posts, which I why I asked for clarification on what seemed like a misleading statement. You were not being clear, at least to me, and when I asked if the structure issue was the only case that you were referring to your response was still confusing. Thanks for clearing up what you meant.
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Because no one was answering and by bumping it, it keeps the thread active and closer to the top, making it more likely someone will have the answer the OP is looking for. In other words, bumping an unanswered thread is an attempt to help the OP.
The question has been answered correctly, but let me summarize.
Unless the Class E touches the surface, no Airspace Authorization is required. This is spelled out crystal clear in the regs:
§107.41 Operation in certain airspace.
No person may operate a small unmanned aircraft in Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class E airspace designated for an airport unless that person has prior authorization from Air Traffic Control (ATC).
The misunderstanding about Class E and authorization requirements is exacerbated by several commercial training programs who are perpetuating the myth that Class E at 700 or 1200 requires authorization. They do not.
Unless the Class E touches the surface, no Airspace Authorization is required. This is spelled out crystal clear in the regs:
§107.41 Operation in certain airspace.
No person may operate a small unmanned aircraft in Class B, Class C, or Class D airspace or within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class E airspace designated for an airport unless that person has prior authorization from Air Traffic Control (ATC).
The misunderstanding about Class E and authorization requirements is exacerbated by several commercial training programs who are perpetuating the myth that Class E at 700 or 1200 requires authorization. They do not.
So flying under 107, no authorization is required to fly in class E airspace unless you're going to fly "within the lateral boundaries of the surface area of Class E airspace designated for an airport ." Got it! (I actually have a waiver for that). With that said - how about hobbyists (FAR 101.41, 101.43)? I've had some folks at my local FSDO state that based on the June 2014 FAA interpretation of section 336, "hobbyists should not operate in controlled airspace as there is a danger of a hobbyist drone wandering into an airway and endangering the NAS" (and again to clarify I'm taking in areas where class E begins at 700 or 1200'). What are your (and others) thoughts on this?
Hey there, Flyboy. I typically avoid discussions of Part 101 issues. They can be more vague. But recreational fliers don't get Airspace Authorizations. They have that infamous 5-mile rule regarding airports. If the airport is Class E or G, a call to the airport manager is all that is required. If the airport is in B, C, or D, a call to the tower is required. It's an urban legend that this is notify only - the tower controller can deny your request.
Thanks for the input! I understand your avoidance of 101 stuff. I'm a FAAST member and have participated in safety seminars, basically tell 101 folks to stay out of any controlled airspace to include Class E unless they have authorization.
I'm not sure that's correct. Under Part 107, authorization is always required to fly in any airspace other than Class G - that includes flying in any Class E airspace. But the only Class E airspace that you can access under Part 107, with the 400 ft AGL restriction, is surface Class E (if we exclude the special case of flying near structures over 300 ft high).
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