Welcome to PhantomPilots.com

Sign up for a weekly email of the latest drone news & information

Advanced flyers: A little help? (Seeking ATT mode advice)

Discussion in 'Phantom 2 Discussion' started by ThatRobbGuy, Jul 21, 2014.

  1. ThatRobbGuy

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2014
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Flying in trees, brush, or under a forest Canopy... What's the best mode to fly in?

    There have been a few times where the shot requires flying under a canopy, following trails through the bush, etc, but the TBE makes it **** near impossible to get smooth, clean video. The TBE causes the machine to "drift" into objects, like trees, branches, and cliff walls. And the video is shite, because I'm fighting to counteract the big flat circles that the phantom 2 is so famous for.

    So, since I have only ever flown in GPS mode, I have little clear understanding of how ATT mode could help me get smoother video. As I understand it, ATT is just basically full auto? No NAZA to help me stay level, etc?

    Those with more flying experience, what is safest to fly in very tight spaces where even a GPS signal might be weak? Under the cover I was in tonight, it took me FOREVER to get GPS lock, and the drift was incredible. I flew into the trees twice, and by the grace of geek, I didn't end up in the water. Just an explosion of green around the camera where the props hacked a bunch of leaves off the maple trees.

    "BZZZZZTTTT!" *huge shower of green confetti falls past the camera*

    Lol

    Here's a super quick sample I tossed on my website so you could see the area I am referring to. (Looks wider than it is.) But you can see the jerkiness, even when slowed to 30 fps, and how it kept pulling to the left. I was fighting it the entire time, and I'm really not happy with how it turned out.

    http://novusphotography.ca/p749709573/e1cf0622f
     
  2. 4wd

    4wd

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2014
    Messages:
    2,532
    Likes Received:
    421
    Location:
    North York Moors
    Re: Advanced flyers: A little help? (Seeking ATT mode advice

    In ATTI mode it should hold altitude but the GPS positioning is turned off.
    It will drift with any wind, and any sideways movement from stick input once started will continue for some way unless you halt it by opposite input.

    Nothing particularly dramatic so long as you try it first in a wide open space.
    You can potentially get some much smoother video than in GPS mode, where it is continually making small corrections or circling around a point if having a bad day.

    In a confined space it might be better than on/off GPS lock but you really need be careful to continually correct the drifting which will occur.
     
  3. OI Photography

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2013
    Messages:
    5,542
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Clarksville, TN
    Re: Advanced flyers: A little help? (Seeking ATT mode advice

    Are you calibrating your compass before flights?

    I would strongly suggest waiting until you have 7 or more satellites locked before taking off, and if you're constantly getting TBE there's some issue that needs to be resolved before flying any more.

    You'll find that ATTI mode probably won't experience the TBE (since it bypasses the GPS and compass), but you will still "drift with the wind" as thatrobbguy mentioned as ATTI only keeps you level, not stuck in one place...but it's usually smooth straight drifting, not the twisting/spiraling drifting that you've experienced in GPS mode.

    Manual mode is the one you really need to watch out for (don't accidentally switch to it), that's when you lose all the NAZA stabilization.
     
  4. ThatRobbGuy

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2014
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Advanced flyers: A little help? (Seeking ATT mode advice

    Before EVERY flight, regardless if I return to the same spot or not, I do a compass calibration; once the lights all blink rapid green and then the "slow green blink", i flick the switch on the remote until the lights on the phantom go yellow, then with battery pack facing me, i hold the machine by the legs and at arms length, I turn a full clockwise circle, lights go from yellow to solid green. Then I tilt it toward 90 degrees (so the battery park is now facing the sky) and complete another arms length circle. It usually takes 1 and 1/4 rotation until I get the single blink and solid green. That's when I fly. :)

    I've seen some compass calibrations done where the machine is held in the same spot, and turned within a " box" that's no bigger than the machine itself... So perhaps my arms length calibration is incorrect? (I am 7' tall, so my arms length circle is almost 6' 6" in diameter.)
     
  5. OI Photography

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2013
    Messages:
    5,542
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Clarksville, TN
    Re: Advanced flyers: A little help? (Seeking ATT mode advice

    I've seen it done both ways (rotating with you as the center point, and rotating with the Phantom as the center point) and either seems to work the same. You can try doing it the other way but I don't think that will resolve the TBE issue...worth a try though!

    Have you checked the compass values in the Assistant software? And are you using the stock landing gear?
     
  6. ThatRobbGuy

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2014
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Advanced flyers: A little help? (Seeking ATT mode advice

    I am using the stock gear, yes. And no, I I hevent checked values. But I will now! :)

    I'll post a video here in a bit showing how severe the TBE is for me. :)
     
  7. ianwood

    ianwood Taco Wrangler
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2014
    Messages:
    4,922
    Likes Received:
    1,800
    Location:
    Lost Angeles
    Re: Advanced flyers: A little help? (Seeking ATT mode advice

    The upcoming firmware should help you a lot with regards to TBE. Hopefully it should be out soon.

    If you have a 2D gimbal, ATTI is good for smooth shots if you can drift with the wind. If not, it will still help with the TBE for now. Note that GPS mode if it has less than 7 satellites locked will act slightly like ATTI, more so with even less satellites.
     
  8. ThatRobbGuy

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2014
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Advanced flyers: A little help? (Seeking ATT mode advice

    Is there a way to tell how many satts you're locked into?
     
  9. MStacey

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Re: Advanced flyers: A little help? (Seeking ATT mode advice

    Check the flashing light sequence will tell you if you have above x satellites or below x satellites (see the manual)
    or use IOSD Mini and a Video TX this will show exactly how many you have.
     
  10. Kelso Kubat

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2013
    Messages:
    299
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Frisco, CO
    Re: Advanced flyers: A little help? (Seeking ATT mode advice

    There is no "best" way to do it. An experienced and skillful pilot could make them all work smoothly. I never fly in gps mode. Only time I use it I became disoriented. Flip the switch and watch it hold....
    I always fly in atti or for some of the more tricky shots IOC course lock
     
  11. laselvasurf

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2013
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    14
    Re: Advanced flyers: A little help? (Seeking ATT mode advice

    Fly in ATTI, you won't have any drift caused by the FC. If there is wind, it'll blow it around but over all if you're looking to film things, ATTI is the only way to go. I rarely use GPS mode as it just isn't as smooth. I learned to fly multi rotors before there were "flight computers" though, so flying in ATTI is still super easy in my opinion. If you really want to fly the phantom, enable manual mode and go to an open field :)

    With that said, here are a couple video I did where I had to fly through some pretty tight areas. I flew in ATTI mode the entire time I was filming for both these videos.

    [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfV4ykwBaqA[/youtube]

    [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v7uBHY-CkI[/youtube]
     
  12. Petr_K

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2014
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Czech Republic, Praha
    Re: Advanced flyers: A little help? (Seeking ATT mode advice

    Very nice video [​IMG]
     
  13. QYV

    QYV

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2014
    Messages:
    1,814
    Likes Received:
    7
    Location:
    NYC
    Re: Advanced flyers: A little help? (Seeking ATT mode advice

    yea that bit through the tunnel in the first video is rad

    in the 2nd one were you like, on that pier with visual on the Phantom? in ATTI how did you get lined up perfectly going backwards and know you weren't going to hit a pole under the pier?

    I've been flying in ATTI more lately and it's really hard to hold a straight line forward/backwards. I think it's just because I've been in some higher wind situations (coastal MA this last weekend) but still.. one little gust and poof you'd hit that pier and into the water it goes
     
  14. dragonash

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2014
    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Re: Advanced flyers: A little help? (Seeking ATT mode advice


    He probably was moving forward and just reversed the video
    It's the simplest things people dont think of anymore ;)

    But yeah, I started using ATTI mode lately because GPS wasnt even smooth with a hover anymore! Or my eyes have gotten sharper and know what to look for.

    Some of the smoothest video you will get is by working with the wind. Work with the wind and let it "guide" the phantom near the location you want and you wont see any vibrations.

    If there is no wind, slow and steady remains true.
     
  15. ThatRobbGuy

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2014
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Advanced flyers: A little help? (Seeking ATT mode advice

    Negative. It's not reversed. 1; the distance between the quad and the incoming wave remains pretty consistent. If it was reversed, the wave would be moving away from the camera, not following it, and 2, the birds would be flying backwards, as would the guy picking up garbage towards the end of the shot be moving in reverse.

    This is the kind of camera work I aspire to. EXTREMELY impressed, very well done. My only questions for the poster are: Are you using filters for the camera, and if so, what type? As well, would you be willing to share some of your video settings and post tweaks? :)

    Either way. Spectacular footage and flying. I am dually impressed.
     
  16. laselvasurf

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2013
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    14
    Re: Advanced flyers: A little help? (Seeking ATT mode advice

    Thanks! :)
     
  17. laselvasurf

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2013
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    14
    Re: Advanced flyers: A little help? (Seeking ATT mode advice

    Thanks! I did it quite a few times to get the shot right. I was flying completely blind once it got out of that tunnel until I came up enough for the fpv tx to clear the rock.

    The second video... For the under the pier shot, I was flying backwards and was on the beach near the cliff. I had a visual on my phantom the whole time. There was a bit of wind when I did that, so it took a couple line ups and last minute bails before I did it. I knew I needed the shot though, so I ended up doing it three times so I'd have some choices when editing. I've flown under and through piers like that over a hundred times by now(not exaggerating) and I've had some close calls but never any crashes. You have to be calm and just fly as if there isn't a pier, it's not that hard to fly in a straight line :) I have well over 500 flights on the phantom platform so I'm pretty comfortable with the craft and it's ability to respond to pilot input vs wind.
     
  18. laselvasurf

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2013
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    14
    Re: Advanced flyers: A little help? (Seeking ATT mode advice

    Nope :) you aren't the first to think that though...
     
  19. fastsmiles

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2014
    Messages:
    844
    Likes Received:
    130
    Location:
    Fort Worth, Tx
    Re: Advanced flyers: A little help? (Seeking ATT mode advice

    Really nice video. Practice & experience shows.
     
  20. laselvasurf

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2013
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    14
    Re: Advanced flyers: A little help? (Seeking ATT mode advice

    Thanks for the kind words! You are correct on all accounts, nice job picking up on the details :)

    To answer your questions...

    There were no filters used on either of those videos. I now use a Polar pro ND filter on most sunny day shoots because I just don't want to have to think about jello and I like the softer more cinematic feel of the slower shutter speeds. I only had jello on a few shoots and it was because of extremely heavy winds(average 20mph, gusting at 25+), so it's not a huge problem for most people.

    Video settings on my gopro hero 3 black + were the same for both videos: 2.7K 30fps Medium FOV Protune on. Post production was simple, both edited and color corrected in Fcp X. No stabilization done. I did minor resizing if the shot was too wide, but never pushed past the 100% mark in a 1080p project.

    I hope that answers your questions :) if you have any more or want any more specific info on anything let me know!