Welcome to PhantomPilots.com

Sign up for a weekly email of the latest drone news & information

Adjustments needed for Lens Protector and ND filter

Discussion in 'Phantom 2 Discussion' started by Jezabel, Mar 17, 2014.

  1. Jezabel

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Michigan
    I have read about different balancing techniques (putting on coins/washers on back of gimbal camera bracket and end of gimbal) when you add anything to the GoPro Hero 3+ (i.e. lens protector, ND filter,etc).

    Since the Hero 3+ is smaller and lighter than the Hero 3 can the gimbal compensate without burning up its motors? With the lens protector on it appears that the camera is unbalanced until the gimbal is on and then it looks like it tilts and operates just fine. So is there a need to balance or can the gimbal compensate when P2 is on and in flight?

    If it is best for the gimbal to not do this much compensation, what "real-world" experiences have folks found to work best for balancing the camera with the lens protector and/or filter?

    Also, in putting on the lens protector it looks like it is hitting the bracket that holds the camera in the gimbal. I think it will mean sanding a little off of the lens protector's base ring to get a good fit. Are there other techniques that are better to get it to fit with the bracket? And, I am assuming this will be the same with the Polar Pro ND filter, right?
     
  2. rilot

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2013
    Messages:
    842
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Twyford, UK
    The Hero 3+ isn't smaller and lighter than the Hero 3. It's the same.
     
  3. Jezabel

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Michigan
    In reading reviews of the two cameras, I had come across this information regarding weight: " As for weight, the 'naked' GoPro HERO3+ Black, with battery, tips the scales at 73 grams (2.58oz), 2 grams (0.07oz) lighter than to the GoPro HERO3 Black " The 2 grams is approximately the weight of the lens protector cover and so that is why I wondered if you even needed to balance the camera.
     
  4. ianwood

    ianwood Taco Wrangler
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2014
    Messages:
    4,932
    Likes Received:
    1,811
    Location:
    Lost Angeles
    PolarPro ND, paperclip and a penny. Works for me.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Jezabel

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Michigan
    Are you just using tape to hold the paper clip to gimbal and the penny to the paperclip?

    And, this stays on even during turbulence and vibrations of the P2?
     
  6. ianwood

    ianwood Taco Wrangler
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2014
    Messages:
    4,932
    Likes Received:
    1,811
    Location:
    Lost Angeles
    Yup.
     
  7. jgrissom91

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2014
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    1
    How do you know if you need to balance it. Mine seems fine without any compensation.
     
  8. ianwood

    ianwood Taco Wrangler
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2014
    Messages:
    4,932
    Likes Received:
    1,811
    Location:
    Lost Angeles
    You know it needs to be balanced when the GoPro doesn't sit level with the power turned off. Your gimbal will probably still work but you're stressing it. Doubt the motors will support the constant duty cycle for 15 minutes straight without some sort of accelerated wear and tear.
     
  9. Ksc

    Ksc

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    973
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Naples, FL
    I've never seen a zenmuse sit level when the power is off..... with or without filter
     
  10. Muddie

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    0
    No expert for sure, but if I set my Zenmuse (with GoPro installed and power off) by hand to sit level - it stays there.
     
  11. jgrissom91

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2014
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    1
    Mine does not sit level with or without the filter. I am wondering if the extra 7-8 grams would really make that much of a difference. Not trying to offend, but the penny & paper clip taped to the camera seems a bit silly.
     
  12. DesertFlyer53

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2014
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Ridgecrest, CA
    What kind of tape works best?
     
  13. ianwood

    ianwood Taco Wrangler
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2014
    Messages:
    4,932
    Likes Received:
    1,811
    Location:
    Lost Angeles
    Any decent tape works. It's not that much weight. You can also tape two quarters to the back right of the gimbal but the penny and paper clip weigh less and give you the same effect. Moment and arm.

    You can worry about what it looks like or you can make it work. The gimbal and GoPro are perfectly balanced and need to be. You can put the gimbal in any position when it is off and it will stay there. If it doesn't you might want to figure out why.

    Keep in mind the ND is all the way forward and all the way to one side so its weight gets amplified. It shifts the CG significantly. Remember moment and arm? (If you don't know what those terms mean, look them up.) If the CG is way off, the gimbal motors are subject to a much higher torque load than normal. And if that's not enough, inertial loading from normal flying acts as multiplier on the already increased torque. Pretty sure that's more load than the gimbal motors are designed for.

    Maybe if the Zenmuse was more robust, it wouldn't be an issue and maybe it won't be an issue. But, I've already seen more horizon drift than I ever want to see. And I'd rather not risk having to buy a new gimbal within the next year because I burnt out the motors.
     
  14. DesertFlyer53

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2014
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Ridgecrest, CA
    Between this info and your T8FGS thread, you've become one of my favorite members here. :)
     
  15. DesertFlyer53

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2014
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Ridgecrest, CA
    ianwood... Have you thought about the best way to make this "counterweight" removable? I know there will be times when I don't want to fly with the ND filter.
     
  16. ianwood

    ianwood Taco Wrangler
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2014
    Messages:
    4,932
    Likes Received:
    1,811
    Location:
    Lost Angeles
    Appreciate the vote of confidence! So far tape is all I've got at the moment. It's not hard to take off or put on but it isn't exactly as easy as it could be. Open to ideas.
     
  17. DesertFlyer53

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2014
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Ridgecrest, CA
    Got it. Thanks!
     
  18. Jezabel

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2014
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Michigan
    ianwood, I did two test flights yesterday with the tape and penny method. One was with the lens protector and one was with the Polar Pro ND filter. I have significant jerky yaw movement with the ND filter on and barely negligible jerkiness with the lens protector.

    I also noticed that the lens protector was more balanced to start with penny/clip rig than the ND filter (which was slightly angled).

    Is there a critical length for the penny to be back from the gimbal to counter the extra weight of the filter (.3 oz) as compared to the lens protector (.2oz)?

    Or do I need to change the setting in the camera when using the ND filter? I was using 1080/60 M for both tests. What settings do you use when you are using ND filter on a bright, sunny (snowy landscape--high reflectance) day?
     
  19. ianwood

    ianwood Taco Wrangler
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2014
    Messages:
    4,932
    Likes Received:
    1,811
    Location:
    Lost Angeles
    I just guessed the weight and length which you will need to do as well. The good news is the gimbal will tell you right away. Put the filter on and then add the counterweight until you get a neutral balance in both directions. It'll require a little trial and error but once you get it right, you're good. I should say mine is a penny and a bit. You could use two pennies and shorten it a bit.

    The only other thing to note is you need to think about the rotation of the gimbal and where the counterweight will be in certain positions. I've had no problem with it in the air but on the ground you don't want it to hang too low or it could press against the ground. I use a piece of cardboard to launch from to get a level surface and not have the Phantom sink into the grass.

    As for shooting modes, I almost always use 2.7K30p medium FOV, CAMRAW, Protune (flat color, low sharpening). The ND really helps to knock down rolling shutter and gives just a hint of motion blur to smooth out temporal jerkiness. You could equally use other modes though.
     
  20. DesertFlyer53

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2014
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Ridgecrest, CA
    I've never understood exactly what roller shutter is. Can you explain?