When calling the ATC for permission to fly...

[cdusher]

I have my remote pilot cert. There is class e(sfc) airport in the general area.
Thinking applying for a waiver to take a real estate pic in that area is probably not practical.
They want times and dates on the application.
When you have no idea how long that the process is going to take how is that possible?
If it's a month later what's the use.
Hoping I'm missing something here.

 

[Joe Glenn]

W

Here's how I've talked successfully to ATC as a hobbyist for about 20 flights over the past year within 1/4 mile of a Class C airport, even as recently today, a week after CFR 14 Part 107 went into effect:
"This is (my name) requesting clearance to fly a small UAV at (location) between (12:15 and 12:45 pm or whatever window of time I want). I'll be ( height) feet above ground level, flying Line of Sight, and I'll call you when I am back on the ground and done for the day."
ATC may respond by asking me to confirm location and AGL height. Once they asked me for a contact telephone number, once they told me to standby until they cleared some manned aircraft traffic, and once they told me it wouldn't be necessary to call back.
I call back every time (unless told not to, of course), and when I do, ATC usually thanks me and wishes me a good day. It is always a polite and positive experience.

Where do you find the phone numbers?

 

[davoud]

In fact it is a request, not a notification, as you have no right to fly in restricted airspace—though in most cases they are liberal, especially at low altitudes. The FAA tower will ask for your name, location, flight altitude, UAS registration #, date and time of flight. The problem I have with the BWI tower is that I reach an answering machine. They say they will phone back, but they rarely do. Busy people, they are.

 

[Mark The Droner]

In fact it is a request, not a notification ....

It's a notification, not a request. See AC 91-57A

 

[davoud]

It's a notification, not a request. See AC 91-57A

Wrong. You're asking the FAA to grant an exception to FAA regulations governing flight in restricted airspace. That's a request, not a notification that you are granting yourself an exception.

 

[Mark The Droner]

Wrong? How could it be wrong? The document states it in plain english. It's been understood to be that way for over a year now.

You didn't read the document, did you?

 

[Great Pumpkin]

I got the telephone number by contacting the airport's Operations Manager, who was very polite and helpful.

 

[joet]

Hobbyists notify. Commercial remote pilots request.


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots

 

[davoud]

Wrong? How could it be wrong? The document states it in plain english. It's been understood to be that way for over a year now.
You didn't read the document, did you?

Yep, read it. Differing interpretations. Have you talked to an FAA tower? If the tower cannot refuse to allow you to fly in restricted airspace then it's a notification. If they can refuse (which they can), then it's a request. The reason you're calling is that you're in restricted air space. If they say "Sorry, no flying during that period because of such-and-such reason" try telling them that you're going to fly anyway, because this is a notification and not a request. See how that works for you.

 

[joet]

Yep, read it. Differing interpretations. Have you talked to an FAA tower? If the tower cannot refuse to allow you to fly in restricted airspace then it's a notification. If they can refuse (which they can), then it's a request. The reason you're calling is that you're in restricted air space. If they say "Sorry, no flying during that period because of such-and-such reason" try telling them that you're going to fly anyway, because this is a notification and not a request. See how that works for you.

From http://www.faa.gov/airports/special_programs/uas_airports/model_airplane_faqs/

Can an airport operator object to model aircraft flights near my airport?

1. 
   Yes, according the FAA’s Interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft, you can object to the proposed use of a model aircraft within five miles of an airport if the proposed activity would endanger the safety of the NAS. However, the airport operator cannot prohibit or prevent the model aircraft operator from operating within five miles of the airport.
   If you object to a proposed model aircraft operation within five statute miles of the airport for safety reasons and the model aircraft operator flies anyway, the airport operator has the following options depending upon the airport operator’s judgment of risk from the model aircraft flight:
   
   • Contact the airport traffic control tower (ATCT), if one is located at your airport.
   • Contact your local law enforcement agency to detect and potentially investigate and, as appropriate, pursue enforcement actions to stop the use. Please refer to FAA Guidance for Law Enforcement.
   • Notify the FAA’s 24 hours Regional Operations Center (ROC). Find ROC contact information.
   • Notify the local Flight Standards District Office (FSDO).

 

[RCAF Flyboy]

A lot of people seem to think that the only space that is protected is on the ground and that they can do whatever they want in the air. Not so!

Airspace around public airports is not "Restricted" Air Space; but rather "Controlled Airspace". To put it simply airspace approaching an airport will have approx. 3 (or more) different ceiling heights that are controlled. Starting from the first which starts at a circumference several miles outward and as you get closer the ceiling of controlled airspace goes higher and then immediately around the air port the ceiling increases again to its highest. These ceiling heights are set by the FAA or military.

Examples of Restricted Airspace can be Government or Military Installations or any place designated so by the Government or Military such as "The Whitehouse, Area 51, etc. etc.

The main differences of Restricted and Controlled are briefly defined below:

Restricted airspace is an area (volume) of airspace typically used by the military in which the local controlling authorities have determined that air traffic must be restricted (if not continually prohibited) for safety or security concerns. It is one of many types of special use airspace designations and is depicted on aeronautical charts with the letter "R" followed by a serial number.


Controlled airspace is established mainly for three different reasons:
* high-volume air traffic areas, e.g. near airports[citation needed]
* IFR traffic under ATC guidance
* security
Controlled airspace usually exists in the immediate vicinity of busier airports, where aircraft used in commercial air transport flights are climbing out from or making an approach to the airport, or at higher levels where air transport flights would tend to cruise. Some countries also provide controlled airspace almost generally, however in most countries it is common to provide uncontrolled airspace in areas where significant air transport or military activity is not expected.

As a flyboy I know this well! ;o)

 

[Falcon900]

From Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) about the Use of Model Aircraft Near an Airport – Airports

Can an airport operator object to model aircraft flights near my airport?

1. 
   Yes, according the FAA’s Interpretation of the Special Rule for Model Aircraft, you can object to the proposed use of a model aircraft within five miles of an airport if the proposed activity would endanger the safety of the NAS. However, the airport operator cannot prohibit or prevent the model aircraft operator from operating within five miles of the airport.
   If you object to a proposed model aircraft operation within five statute miles of the airport for safety reasons and the model aircraft operator flies anyway, the airport operator has the following options depending upon the airport operator’s judgment of risk from the model aircraft flight:
   • Contact the airport traffic control tower (ATCT), if one is located at your airport.
   • Contact your local law enforcement agency to detect and potentially investigate and, as appropriate, pursue enforcement actions to stop the use. Please refer to FAA Guidance for Law Enforcement.
   • Notify the FAA’s 24 hours Regional Operations Center (ROC). Find ROC contact information.
   • Notify the local Flight Standards District Office (FSDO).

Be aware of the distinction between "Airport Operator" and "Air Traffic Control (ATC)". The airport operator, usually a government body, county, port authority, etc. is the entity responsible for the operation and maintanance of the airport, not aircraft operations. ATC controls the aircraft and ground traffic at and around the airport out to the limits of their control area. This function is a control tower which may or may not be a 24 hour operation. When the control tower is open, the designated airspace around the airport is at least class D airspace and subject to FAA authorization for drone operation there. It is amazing how little understanding the general public has of this difference. Many times I have been asked "Isn't there a control tower at XYZ airport?" which happens to have one 2000 ft. runway and perhaps 25 aircraft operations on a busy day.

 

[Falcon900]

I passed my 107 (woohoooo) and plan to shoot at this location quite a bit. I'm assuming whenever B4UFly says to notify anyone that it means recreational and 107ers. Any information is appreciated.

Clearly, B$UFly needs to be updated to allow the user to specify whether operating under hobby/recreation user or part 107 operation. But, if you are a 107 operator you will realize that the warning about notifying an airport in Class G airspace does not apply to you.

 

[Mark The Droner]

Yep, read it. Differing interpretations. .....

Different interpretations?

You said it was "not a notification", but "notify" is the word the FAA uses. It's not my word, it's their word. Your argument doesn't make any sense.

Another one for the Ignore function

 

[davoud]

Airspace around public airports is not "Restricted" Air Space; but rather "Controlled Airspace".
...

As a flyboy I know this well! ;o)

I'm sure that you do. But as a linguist, I know well that a distinction without a difference is a type of logical fallacy in which someone describes a distinction between two things although no difference exists. This is a perfect example. When the FAA says "you are forbidden to fly here" what difference does it make whether, in their minds, the airspace is "restricted" or "controlled?" Restricted = forbidden. Controlled = forbidden. The operative word is "forbidden." What's the difference between "forbidden" and "forbidden?"

 

[Falcon900]

I'm sure that you do. But as a linguist, I know well that a distinction without a difference is a type of logical fallacy in which someone describes a distinction between two things although no difference exists. This is a perfect example. When the FAA says "you are forbidden to fly here" what difference does it make whether, in their minds, the airspace is "restricted" or "controlled?" Restricted = forbidden. Controlled = forbidden. The operative word is "forbidden." What's the difference between "forbidden" and "forbidden?"

Perhaps your linguistic expertise applies to every day English, but the FAA has it's own definitions and there is a difference. This should answer your question.

Types of Airspace:

Controlled, i.e. Class A,B,C,D, and E = Not forbidden to fly, authorization needed
Uncontrolled, i.e. Class G = Not forbidden, just fly within rule limitations

Special Use:
Prohibited Areas Forbidden, never fly
Restricted Areas Not Forbidden, (some are not effective 24 hours a day) just tightly controlled, get authorization
etc.

 

[Lacy 1]

Be aware of the distinction between "Airport Operator" and "Air Traffic Control (ATC)". The airport operator, usually a government body, county, port authority, etc. is the entity responsible for the operation and maintanance of the airport, not aircraft operations. ATC controls the aircraft and ground traffic at and around the airport out to the limits of their control area. This function is a control tower which may or may not be a 24 hour operation. When the control tower is open, the designated airspace around the airport is at least class D airspace and subject to FAA authorization for drone operation there. It is amazing how little understanding the general public has of this difference. Many times I have been asked "Isn't there a control tower at XYZ airport?" which happens to have one 2000 ft. runway and perhaps 25 aircraft operations on a busy day.

What if there is no tower?

Sent from my SM-N920V using PhantomPilots mobile app

 

[Falcon900]

What if there is no tower?

Sent from my SM-N920V using PhantomPilots mobile app

If there is no tower, check to see if the airport is Class E (controlled) or Class G (uncontrolled) airspace. Many will be Class G, but you have to check.

You asked about no tower, but you can check in the "Chart Supplements" formerly Airports Facilities Directory for towered airports for information on the hours the air traffic control tower is in operation. Also check the Sectional or Terminal Area Chart to determine whether the Class D airspace around the towered airport reverts to Class G or Class E when the tower is closed. When the tower is closed (part time operation) the airport is like a non-towered airport.

 

[BDFlyer]

I live about 2 miles from a TV station with a heliport on site. They don't have a helicopter any more, but it is still listed as a site to report to. Before my first flight at a nearby park I called them and the receptionist transferred me to engineering. I explained that I was a hobby drone flyer and wanted to ask permission to fly in the area. He told me that I should consider them as notified so long as I stay away from any craft that may be coming in toward them. No problem, I don't fly that high and would never tangle with another craft. He said they only keep the slab there in case the local Flight For Life needs a place to land.

 

[JesterPhotog]

Here's how I've talked successfully to ATC as a hobbyist for about 20 flights over the past year within 1/4 mile of a Class C airport, even as recently today, a week after CFR 14 Part 107 went into effect:
"This is (my name) requesting clearance to fly a small UAV at (location) between (12:15 and 12:45 pm or whatever window of time I want). I'll be ( height) feet above ground level, flying Line of Sight, and I'll call you when I am back on the ground and done for the day."
ATC may respond by asking me to confirm location and AGL height. Once they asked me for a contact telephone number, once they told me to standby until they cleared some manned aircraft traffic, and once they told me it wouldn't be necessary to call back.
I call back every time (unless told not to, of course), and when I do, ATC usually thanks me and wishes me a good day. It is always a polite and positive experience.

Edit: According to FAA Order JO 7200.23, which goes into effect 3 October 2016, hobbyists should request "authorization" (not clearance) from tower ATC.
Kennedye (below) is correct - ATC personnel are told not to use the word "approve".

Great Pumpkin,

You are Part 107? And you have flown within 1/4 mile of a Class C Airport, but were you in the Class C area?
If so, how long did it take to get the Waiver from FAA?