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What is LOS? And why

Discussion in 'Standard/4k Discussion' started by ShoRotten, Dec 27, 2015.

  1. ShoRotten

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    As i understand flying LOS mean flying until the bird is visible. Not out of sight.
    Why some of you fly only LOS? Even though having a professional version?
    Whats wrong with flying out of sight, when you can see whats going on the screen and plus if you are flying high in an open area with no obstacles
     
  2. fordruid

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    US law requires you (or a spotter) to keep the UAV in visual contact at all times. Binoculars are a good investment for 'plausible deniability".

    Last line, you suddenly lose video over a crowd 3000 meters away, then what do you do?
     
  3. ShoRotten

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    Me? Nothing. RTH will, no?

    What about UK laws, anyone familiar with them?
     
  4. fordruid

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    Hopefully, but what if...
    Idiots have crashed into crowds at sporting events, parades and the White House. Grandma demands a new law!!!
     
  5. Meta4

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    LOS - Line of sight is a much misused term in the drone community.
    True LOS is about the line - not the sight
    It means that there is no obstruction between you and the drone, not how far away it is
    Your drone could be 5 miles away and maintain LOS even though you lost sight of it after 300 metres.
    Often when people here use the term LOS, they really mean VLOS or visual line of sight, meaning to keep the drone within visual range.
     
  6. fordruid

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    Thanks, you said it much better than me.:)
     
  7. RoyVa

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    Yes but in the US the FCC is very clear:
    FAA Giidelines

    Model aircraft operations are for hobby or recreational purposes only.

    The FAA has partnered with several industry associations to promote Know Before You Fly, a campaign to educate the public about using unmanned aircraft safely and responsibly. Individuals flying for hobby or recreation are strongly encouraged to follow safety guidelines, which include:

    • Fly below 400 feet and remain clear of surrounding obstacles
    • Keep the aircraft within visual line of sight at all times
    • Remain well clear of and do not interfere with manned aircraft operations
    • Don't fly within 5 miles of an airport unless you contact the airport and control tower before flying
    • Don't fly near people or stadiums
    • Don't fly an aircraft that weighs more than 55 lbs
    • Don't be careless or reckless with your unmanned aircraft – you could be fined for endangering people or other aircraft
    The statutory parameters of a model aircraft operation are outlined in Section 336 of Public Law 112-95 (the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012) (PDF). Individuals who fly within the scope of these parameters do not require permission to operate their UAS; any flight outside these parameters (including any non-hobby, non-recreational operation) requires FAA authorization. For example, using a UAS to take photos for your personal use is recreational; using the same device to take photographs or videos for compensation or sale to another individual would be considered a non-recreational operation.

    Says Visual line of sight in the second parameter

    I think that's pretty clear!
     
  8. fordruid

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    "encouraged to follow safety guidelines,"

    Please, not trying to start a fight or anything, define this! Not for me, I am nobody, but for that guy who got a quadcopter for Christmas
     
  9. John Decker

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    This is the story in New Zealand:
    "This rule outlines requirements for an operator to ensure their operation remains within unaided visual sight (i.e. without the use of an instrument, such as binoculars or a telescope).
    First-person view systems are permitted under this rule, but still require a separate observer, who has suitable training and competency, and can maintain unaided visual line of sight contact at all times, with the aircraft and have direct communication with the pilot."
     
  10. msinger

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    The FAA strongly encourages you to follow their guidelines -- because they can and will sue you if you don't and cause an accident that is reported to them. And, at that point, you'll wish you had been following their safety recommendations.
     
  11. tcope

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    I don't know of any regulation that requires this. Seems that it was added into the registration but I don't know of this as anything other then a recommendation prior to that.

    From me, when I loose video I just use the map and follow the orange line closer to my location. The map tracking appears to run on the controller stream and not the video stream.

    BTW - to the OP.... if you follow that recommendation, the FAA does not allow the use of a spotter as LOS.
     
  12. msinger

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    This is not true. Check out the following requirements in my approved 333 exemption:

    "The UA must be operated within visual line of sight (VLOS) of the PIC at all times.This requires the PIC to be able to use human vision unaided by any device other than corrective lenses, as specified on the PIC’s FAA-issued airman medical certificate."

    "All operations must utilize a visual observer (VO). The VO may be used to satisfy the VLOS requirement as long as the PIC always maintains VLOS capability. The VO and PIC must be able to communicate verbally at all times. Electronic messaging or
    texting is not permitted during flight operations."
     
  13. tcope

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    The 333 exception has a _lot_ more requirements as you are now flying commercially. Non-commercial flights (outside of the 333 requirements) are different.
     
  14. msinger

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    There really are no requirements for non-commercial flights. The FAA just has a short list of safety guidelines that they "encourage" you to follow. So, really, you don't have to fly VLOS if you're a hobbyist. But, if you choose not to do so and you cause an accident that is reported, you can be sure the FAA will come after you for flying dangerously. And, by dangerously, that could mean you're doing anything outside of the requirements they normally tell people to follow. So, if you're flying VLOS via a spotter (as described above), I don't see any reason why the FAA would deem that to be unsafe.

    As always though, contact the FAA directly if you have any doubts :)
     
  15. FotoGeek

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    If if you do they will sue you (of something happens).
     
  16. tcope

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    However, there _are_ true restrictions that apply to anyone operating in public airspace. Perhaps we are just so used to following them that were don't think about it much but they happen to be a huge issue to the public. I'm talking about flying near airports, flying in a "reckless" manner, yielding to manned vehicles, etc.

    It is also odd that as a part of the registration we had to "agree" (?) to fly LOS.

    Which is what I said to start with.
     
  17. msinger

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    Right -- but, you just took my comment out of context :)

    You should fly VLOS -- whether or not you register. Or, use a spotter as described above.