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Vision or Standard?

Discussion in 'Phantom 2 Vision Discussion' started by Dave Pitman, Nov 2, 2013.

  1. Dave Pitman

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    Hi Gang, my first post. (Been lurking for awhile)

    I was considering a Vision, so I thought I'd post the reasoning behind my decision to go with a naked Phantom instead. Perhaps it will help others on the fence.

    My background. I'm an old guy new to rc and became interested in flying (not building) multirotors to take pictures and video, and to fpv. So, like many before me, I started reading the boards. I bought a few mini quads to learn to fly with. After gaining a little flight experience, I am ready for the next step. While I'm not necessarily afraid of building, I just would rather not in the beginning. I will modify and tinker to a greater degree as I progress.

    That brings us to the Phantom vs Vision, finally!

    Ok, now for my subjective view on the pros and cons.

    Pros of the Vision over the current v1.1.1 Phantom:
    1. All in one rtf, video, still, fpv w/telemetry package, no fuss. (It is no surprise that this is its greatest marketing feature, right?)
    2. Larger battery and therefore, flight time.
    3. The demo videos out there so far tend to make me feel the Vision is up to its assigned task.

    The cons:
    1. The unkown. Is the camera really on par with a gopro 3?
    2. Can the camera be removed and replaced with a gimble mount?
    3. The frequency manipulation in order to use smart phones is a little unnerving. Cool...yes, But??
    4. Smart phones out in the daylight as a monitor will work, but not optimal.

    After a lot of thought, and doing the math, I opted to go for a standard Phantom with the following additional equipment.

    1. Fat Shark Domminator goggles, 5.8GHz module, and battery. $365.00
    2. ImmersionRC 600mW 5.8GHz A/V Transmitter. $70
    3. (2) Mobius Action cams w/cable to attach to VTX. $150 (1 camera will record 1080p video, and the other will record (2) decent jpg still images every second for the entire flight with no need for me to worry about it.

    Add these items to the cost of the Phantom ($480) and the total cost for this setup is $1065.00 Subtract that from the cost of the Vision still leaves $135.00 in the bank which will cover adding an external PMU and iOSD Mini if I want to in the future.

    This setup lacks the extended flight time of the Vision, and does not have tilt in flight control for the camera. The fpv system, however is far superior to the Vision, in my opinion.

    Also, a gimble and a gopro is always an option. Plus, all the fpv gear can be used on another model if I choose to get one.

    I'm sure my reasoning is not perfect, and it is not meant to denigrate anyone else decision to get a Vision. This is the process that brought me to my decision to cobble together the parts instead.

    Cheers
     
  2. JustJames

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    Im in the same boat. But.. you have clearly done more homework than I have. Thanks. You have helped me out a bit. I too am on the dense but am leaning towards the "naked" version and upgrading it. I have to admit that I'm drawn to the simplicity and convenience of the Vision. Really like it. But for me the main 2 draw backs are the unknown on the camera. Is it as good as the GoPro hero3+black that i'm planning on getting. I like the water proof nature of the go pro case too. Juust in case of a water landing....at least something can be recoverable. The other reason is that if (when) I want to use it for more serious purposes I will need the better gimbal and add ons etc. Hard choice. Very hard. Thanks for your input and any others who may add.

    James
     
  3. flyshasta

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    You might want to seriously think about flight time with the standard Phantom when you add mods. I added an Arris gimbal, GoPro3 and FPV with resulting flight time of between 4.5-5minutes. It rendered the Phantom pretty much worthless as far as I'm concerned. Not to belabor the point but mine is at the bottom of the lake after three and a half minutes of flight. :|
     
  4. JustJames

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    Crap! That sucks! Sorry to hear you lost it! Arrg. I have some serious studying to do to figure this stuff out. I wonder if better batteries would help compensate?
     
  5. JustJames

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    Well I finally got off the fence and picked up a Vision today. They had them in stock at Aerialmediapros. They are only about 15 minutes from my house..lucky me. Those guys seem really cool and spent a lot of time with me and there was zero pressure. It was like taking to a regular guy. They gave me a lot of insight and let me in on a few things that will be coming in the cuter (which also swayed me toward the Vision). All in all a very good experience. I look forward dealing with them in the cuter. They seem to specialize in this and much more serious rigs so i felt like I was in good hands. I am charging the batteries up tonight and hopefully will get to fly tomorrow. The longer flight times and easy to use package sold me. Super excited.

    James.
     
  6. Firestat

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    JustJames, if it makes you feel any better, I would have bought the Vision first, if it were out at the time. However, the original Phantom at $479USD really appeals to a lot of people and is certainly a lot of fun. Flew mine everday for about 2 months and probably will fly it a lot in the future. :)
     
  7. Multicopterbat

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    I find this very amusing as people are really asking for trouble when they expect that a 500 USD multicopter should fly 20 minutes, carry a RED Epic and have videolinks + other included or in this case, Phantom being able to fly for ever with any weight attached or mods done. To be honest, I dont understand what do you expect - a miracle?

    Phantom has completely changed the multicopter market. For some reason, nothing is enough. If you want to have longer flight times, better cameras onboard or betted handling in bad winds, you shouldnt buy a Phantom in the first place but something totally else. Sorry, but I really dont get this attitude and hope that people would finally understand that Phantom is a entry level multicopter, a very best one in the market, but cant do miracles.
     
  8. Gizmo3000

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    Well, I'd say a lot of earlier buyers are stuck with a similar situation, as are new buyers who want to shoot good looking video.

    DJI is simply not (yet) offering a proper RTF solution for the needs/wants of consumers like the OP.
    here they've created Phantom that's capable of flying considerably longer, but it's only bundled with their own camera/fpv/tx..and no gimbal. :(

    Many of us first purchased our Phantom's earlier in the year with aspirations of making cool video, only to later discover that PFV and gimbals were more desirable.
    I'm sure if a more robust Phantom 2 were made available at the time we might have gone for that instead.

    Of course, a number of us have since "upgraded" to larger quads and hexs that are more capable.
    ..but I'm still jeolous of that 28minute flight time, which does seem like a miracle compared to the original Phantom flight times!
    I built my 450 with lightness in mind, and still barely crack 12 minutes with a 4500 mah battery. But still glad it's more than double my Phantom's flight time.
     
  9. StealthDroner

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    I am on the fence too about the vision.

    I do not think its video is actually good enough, but I may be wrong, I have seen ok video but jittery/jelly video as well. The 'fisheye' lens covers over lots of 'evils' and I would want a better video image than even the GoPro3 black! I want a less fisheye look more like an equiv of 24mm (camera world), with angle of 100 degrees or so but I would get a zoom P&S unlike both GoPro and DJI cams - fixed lens ok for some uses.

    As to why the P v1 is desirable to cobble together something is
    1) I want a better camera/lens for video, good P&S and later a small DSLR - ie Panasonic GH3 and maybe a gymbal
    2) a better quad is the S800 or the likes and is 8 times the $480 base price (Pv1), 50% more than a FPV setup base which would have good jelly isolation and good P&S (in my setup), and you still need to add all the FPV etc to S800, approaching $4k!
    3) then later if things work out, get a more capable quad/hex.

    The question I have is, why not add a second 2200 mah battery so that lifting cap is higher with a longer flight time possibly? Buy the Vison frame later, velcro the 2nd battery until? Likely need stiffer props.

    BTW, the battery capacity is not relevant is it, as the engines will only suck power (volts x current) at the rate you say, so more power = more lifting (assuming props do not bend!!!!) and/or more time, the main thing is a battery with same voltage, whatever the mah rating is required.

    I have seen videos of P v1 with Sony NEX-5r, Panasonic GH3, (both with gymbals) even Canon heavy 5DII !! The prior 2 had ok flight & time, but flying & time with 5D seemed awful, just too heavy, big camera.

    300 grams or so is about the limit for the std P v1, for good performance I think specs for Vision is about 50% higher (480g?), but the battery is over 2x, so besides props/frame/battery is there a diff between the models (motors?) ?

    Elsewhere someone said that the new NON vision Phantom will be the Vision w/o the cam/FPV, which is what I would want, but when ?!

    So some of us are on the fence and it is starting to hurt!! :)

     
  10. StealthDroner

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    Dave,

    Your conclusion is my conclusion, but I also think neither the GoPro3/Black or Vision cam are 'professional' grade, fine for family and youtube but not pro quality (fisheye not the view I want for many shots as well, fisheyes also cover many sins - jelly/jitter is not as obvious, and I would want a zoom lens on good quality P&S for stills or vids)

    A good Canon/Nikon/Sony/etc P&S are really no heavier than either cam, and the ones I have in mind are better quality w/ zooms (slightly or significantly larger sensors), and a anti-jelly mount ,possibly a light gymbal is also likely needed for pro quality.

    But of course I am talking out of my Abehind, and have no experience other than watching MANY videos made with phantoms, a few with vision, not enough IMO yet to reach a conclusion, so it really is a hard choice !!

    S800 and such are out of my price range so a Phantom or equiv is all I can afford now, plus a FPV sys.

    I have seen youtubes of gymbal mounts on Phantoms, so it is doable and they flew fine as well, but I believe you need anti-jelly and gymbal mounts for smooth vids. Search youtube.

    Besides, once George Lucas/Cameron calls me, I can go buy a nice $20k hex setup with remote zoom & focus !! :)
     
  11. ginsonic

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    Vision use 5.8GHz (interference with cordless phones) for remote and 2.4GHz (interference with WiFi) for FPV. That mean low range, problems on cities or woods. How I saw on forums and youtube videos the range is around 300m for RC and 100m + for FPV. You don't have a 5.8 Ghz RC to upgrade (at least i don't know anyone). I wonder if can secure fly over the clouds. I belive that 5.8 GHz waves will be blocked by clouds. In same time 300m range are not enough to fly over clouds.

    I waiting to see Phantom 2 Pro specs. Will be released on this spring I think. If will have a 2.4 Ghz RC I will buy one else I will get an older version.

    I intend to upgrade RC to Futuba 14SG to have a 3km+ range and a secure communication to prevent interferences and to have telemetry. In same time can add an 1000 mW 5.8 GHz video Tx to gain 2km+ FPV. Best are 1.3 Ghz Tx for video but lots of people use 5.8 GHz.

    The problem is the battery for standard. But can use 3 batteries on parallel.

    The only pro arg for Vision is JUST battery on my opinion. 25-28 mins of fly. But just read this:

    viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3749

    Lots of people got serious errors with it.

    P.S. Sorry for my english. It's sucks, i know.