This is why we can't have nice things - Drone nearly hits passenger plane landing in New Zealand

[davidzimagery]

There is a lot of guilt by association out there. I had a discussion with a woman last night with some misconceptions. She's an acquaintance, that likes my drone photography, but doesn't like drones. She was concerned about them flying over her, in her back yard and spying on her. I told her, that isn't my thing. She agreed that I don't, but someone might. I explained that the field of view, and noise they make don't lend them to being the best spy vehicle. I told her I could get a much better shot with my dslr and telephoto lens. I'm not sure if I quelled her fears or not. Her boyfriend came in and diverted her attention. He did say that he thinks drones are cool and would like to have one.

 

[Techguy56]

Sometimes I wonder just how valid some of these news articles are.
I remember when drones started becoming popular it seemed that any article in the media that were about drones were very
Negative. People flying them over neighbors backyards to take pictures of girls sunbathing or hovering outside of people’s bedroom windows.
The articles would usually read where the pilots would give up the flight log and that would be the end of it.
Nothing about the final outcome of what was found on the flight logs.
Things like the drone was passing over at 200 feet in the air therefore people on the ground would be specs.
But of course that wouldn’t sell papers. Throw in some drama and exaggeration and it will make headlines.

 

[BarryWilson]

I think we all share some responsibility in keeping the NAS Safe.

We shouldn't be thinking I'm not going to accept any responsibility for someone else's actions. I'm pretty new to flying drones but have taken a leap into what seems to be the unknown to a lot of recreational pilots. Learning about Protecting the NAS through Regulations like FAA Rules here in the U.S. I've probably taken more safety courses than many of you crusty old pilots while working on my Master Wings through FAASafety.gov. I didn't stop with the trifold read before you fly card that came with my Drone. I earned my FAA Part 107 Certificate just like many of you. I didnt stop there and have taken courses on FAASafety.gov, Embry Riddle Aeronautics, Fly-Rite, U.S. Department of the Interior and U.S. Forest Service to name a few. The over all theme is safety, safety, safety. It is Air Space Safety, Flight Safety, Ground Safety, Hazmat Safety. The list goes on. I've been around aviation my entire life. Having family members as Airframe and Power Plant, Pilots, Air Traffic Controllers, Flight Nurse, Model Hobbyist. Anyone remember the pilot with a gun to his head on a highjacked TWA Flight in Beruit? My parents Best Man at their wedding. My father went to flight school at Spartin School of Aeronautics in the 40's with Paul in Tulsa. Or my late step-brother-in-law that was copilot on PanAm 107 destroyed over Lockerbie. Its a small world guys. But even as big as the NAS is in volume we still have incursions and need to take responsibility for our own actions while taking responsibility to share our knowledge with pilots new and old. Every time we see someone flying outside the rules we need to educate. Everytime we see or talk to other pilots we need to educate. So many misconceptions even amongst longtime CFI Pilots. We need to be self policing through education before the FAA has to over regulate. I've been in Amateur Radio for over 40 years and the FCC expects us to self police our Service. Just like it will take each and everyone of us to use our skills and knowledge to educate our fellow pilots. Take the opportunity to educate rather than merely admonish other pilots. I take every encounter with neighbors, visitors at the park, law enforcement and emergency services, other pilots to share information. Its especially fun to share the experience of flight with kids. So let's all take some responsibility and share our knowledge, skill and love for flying drones with everyone. A better informed public is a less restrictive government!

 

[TrevorTron]

Sometimes I wonder just how valid some of these news articles are.
I remember when drones started becoming popular it seemed that any article in the media that were about drones were very
Negative. People flying them over neighbors backyards to take pictures of girls sunbathing or hovering outside of people’s bedroom windows.
The articles would usually read where the pilots would give up the flight log and that would be the end of it.
Nothing about the final outcome of what was found on the flight logs.
Things like the drone was passing over at 200 feet in the air therefore people on the ground would be specs.
But of course that wouldn’t sell papers. Throw in some drama and exaggeration and it will make headlines.

You beat me to it @Techguy56 . There were numerous reports a couple of years ago here in Portugal of passenger jets apparently being "buzzed" by drones, one was alleged to have taken place at over 2000 ft altitude (thus ruling out any ordinary drone) and soon afterwards legislation was rushed through parliament. Happily the 'rules' are nothing beyond common sense. There was talk of making licensing and insurance compulsory but fortunately they got dropped. The most notable rule is the altitude ceiling of 120m/400ft.
I suspect the reported 'incidents' didn't happen at all but were simply"false flags" fabricated to lubricate the path of the legislation through parliament.
It is typical of the Daily Fail to report like this, to be treated with the contempt it deserves.

 

[Flying Spanner]

The only thing more regulation does is penalise people obeying the rules.
Those hell bent of flying in such a dumb *** way will continue to do so regardless of any rules.
They prob are not even aware we have any safety rules.
Point of sale, hmmm how about needing to pass a test even to buy one?

 

[N017RW]

I understand the concern and am the first to push hard when I see people doing things that violate laws, etc.

That being said, suppose for a moment a DRONE flies away from the PIC and hits a commercial aircraft on final approach at an airport...

As you'd expect, aircraft components are built to tolerate such impacts. There are many web videos of frozen bird carcasses being fired from a cannon to test windshields, fuselage, and intakes.

Lets say it (the DRONE) gets sucked into an intake:

Losing one engine is not going to cause a commercial aircraft to crash because they are designed to fly with one engine down.

Even though it would create a media *#it storm, I cant imagine a drone strike to any part of a commercial aricrast would injure any of its passengers.

I've personally seen the after-effects of a goose strike to a Cessna 172. A prop strike and then leading edge of wing hit but the small aircraft landed without incident.

I could be wrong, however, in my unprofessional opinion, a drone strike to any aircraft and said strike resulting in a crash I think is a bit far-fetched.

Just my $0.02

A myth that won’t die....
The do not use frozen carcasses

Ask yourself: Why would they if they are simulating live birds?

That myth is easily researched and explained.

 

[TrevorTron]

The only thing more regulation does is penalise people obeying the rules.
Those hell bent of flying in such a dumb *** way will continue to do so regardless of any rules.
They prob are not even aware we have any safety rules.
Point of sale, hmmm how about needing to pass a test even to buy one?

Unfortunately governments are only really interested in being seen (by the masses) to do the right thing. Of course laws won't stop the idiots, in fact they might even make the idiots more careful to cover their tracks.

 

[Willis1951]

I was just reading the latest article regarding a near miss of a drone with a commercial airliner. THIS IS WHY WE CANT HAVE NICE THINGS. It's because of the people who think that it's cool to fly drones within 5 meters of an aircraft. Drone operators should have some common sense, no? This is absolutely ridiculous. We already have many regulations imposed on us and acts of stupidity like this just make it harder and harder to do the one thing we all love - fly our drone. Whats your opinion?


Drone nearly collides with Air New Zealand flight | Daily Mail Online

These people will spoil it for everyone they are complete idiots if you know someone who does this kind of thing report them

 

[Jerryatric]

I understand the concern and am the first to push hard when I see people doing things that violate laws, etc.

That being said, suppose for a moment a DRONE flies away from the PIC and hits a commercial aircraft on final approach at an airport...

As you'd expect, aircraft components are built to tolerate such impacts. There are many web videos of frozen bird carcasses being fired from a cannon to test windshields, fuselage, and intakes.

Lets say it (the DRONE) gets sucked into an intake:

Losing one engine is not going to cause a commercial aircraft to crash because they are designed to fly with one engine down.

Even though it would create a media *#it storm, I cant imagine a drone strike to any part of a commercial aircraft would injure any of its passengers.

I've personally seen the after-effects of a goose strike to a Cessna 172. A prop strike and then leading edge of wing hit but the small aircraft landed without incident.

I could be wrong, however, in my unprofessional opinion, a drone strike to any aircraft and said strike resulting in a crash I think is a bit far-fetched.

Just my $0.02

Shuddered when I read your post.....it is our responsibility to prevent incidents not survive them!!!

"Losing one engine is not going to cause a commercial aircraft to crash because they are designed to fly with one engine down." Losing an engine may or may not cause an aircraft to crash but it does create an emergency situation not to mention several hundred thousand dollars in repairs.

"I've personally seen the after-effects of a goose strike to a Cessna 172. A prop strike and then leading edge of wing hit but the small aircraft landed without incident." If you were the one that had to pay for that damage you wouldn't be saying without incident. I had a bird take out the chin bubble on a helicopter, blood, guts and feathers everywhere. IF it had been a mechanical "bird" I can assure you there would have been injuries.

"I could be wrong, however, in my unprofessional opinion, a drone strike to any aircraft and said strike resulting in a crash I think is a bit far-fetched." You got one thing right....your opinion is unprofessional.

Fly safe my friend....

 

[Osmosis]

Shuddered when I read your post.....it is our responsibility to prevent incidents not survive them!!!

"Losing one engine is not going to cause a commercial aircraft to crash because they are designed to fly with one engine down." Losing an engine may or may not cause an aircraft to crash but it does create an emergency situation not to mention several hundred thousand dollars in repairs.

"I've personally seen the after-effects of a goose strike to a Cessna 172. A prop strike and then leading edge of wing hit but the small aircraft landed without incident." If you were the one that had to pay for that damage you wouldn't be saying without incident. I had a bird take out the chin bubble on a helicopter, blood, guts and feathers everywhere. IF it had been a mechanical "bird" I can assure you there would have been injuries.

"I could be wrong, however, in my unprofessional opinion, a drone strike to any aircraft and said strike resulting in a crash I think is a bit far-fetched." You got one thing right....your opinion is unprofessional.

Fly safe my friend....

A flyaway drone (as the thread said) is hardly preventable (in most cases)....

As always, these threads miss the purpose and intent of some comments and digress into an "I know more than you" discussion.

The post has been retracted and now everyone who doesn't have a clue can continue to worry about something that is extremely unlikely to occur and even if it did, would most likely only cause physical damage to both aircraft (similar to a bird strike).


, post: 1346926, member: 85502"]You are correct, I shouldn't have used the word "frozen" ... what I didn't post it is the fact that they don't just shoot one, they fire several of them directly at the intakes and fuselage.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Jerryatric]

A flyaway drone (as the thread said) is hardly preventable (in most cases)....

As always, these threads miss the purpose and intent of some comments and digress into an "I know more than you" discussion.

The post has been retracted and now everyone who doesn't have a clue can continue to worry about something that is extremely unlikely to occur and even if it did, would most likely only cause physical damage to both aircraft (similar to a bird strike).


, post: 1346926, member: 85502"]You are correct, I shouldn't have used the word "frozen" ... what I didn't post it is the fact that they don't just shoot one, they fire several of them directly at the intakes and fuselage.

[/QUOTE]
"A flyaway drone (as the thread said) is hardly preventable (in most cases).... " Have to disagree with you sir. I believe most flyaways ARE preventable. Pushing the limits or not understanding the aircrafts systems, whether a UAS or manned aircraft, tends to result in bad things happening. If flyaways are not preventable we have a serious problem.

..."something that is extremely unlikely to occur and even if it did, would most likely only cause physical damage to both aircraft (similar to a bird strike)." Comforting to know that MOST LIKELY would ONLY cause physical damage.

Solution....don't fly in the vicinity of manned aircraft and none of this has any relevance.

 

[BillyBottle]

Assuming that it was really a "drone" and not a bird, trash bag or party balloon as we've seen in the past, what is being done about it besides threaten everyone who has ever piloted a sUAS? Certainly there can't be that many people from that area who own whatever model of UAV they supposedly saw. The pilots saw this as they were coming in for a landing. It couldn't have been very small. Not likely a Spark or little Parrot model. Or was it? Was some kid out there with his home built little FPV racer getting his "yaw on" and decide to pop up into controlled airspace and do a loop around an airliner? Did they spot a Mavic sized sUAS? Maybe a larger, easier to see Phantom? Or Inspire? Was it a Typhoon? Bigger like a Matrice or some big agricultural unit? There's not a lot to go on from the article and I am skeptical of any "drone sightings" because previous reports have destroyed any credibility they might have had. The idiots flying around airliners are going to post about it on social media and brag about it. Investigate them, locate them and Prosecute Them. Don't lump the rest of us responsible pilots in with the morons doing this. This isn't Catholic School where one student screws up so the nuns punish the entire class. I got enough of that mentality as a kid at Holy Ghost elementary and I refuse to be punished for other peoples screw ups today as an adult.

BUT! Re. last statement above. Itseems like it taught you something good. Pity it is not more widespread perhaps.
Hold that last thought, kiddo!

It is easy to blame 'drones' now, but what about the other stuff you mention, like trash bags, birds etc. (which cannot expect to know any different about a/c safety of course), remember when 1947 gave rise to 'flying saucers' and the 70's to 'UFO's'?
Now it's DRONES!
Betting is open on the 'Next Big Thing'! Lol.
However, if it WAS a drone, then I would expect further action from the authorities, but I could not suggest where they would start. So just ban them? Even that won't work against a total idiot with the right equipment. I am sure I would not hand mine over, lol.

And I, personally, think that why we don't see reports of 'conventional' R/C craft in the above situations, is the lack of a camera on them. Nothing to show off or brag about (or post on t'net).
That might be a clue as to why it happens.

I also saw your other post where you mention transponders. That might yet be the best way if the tech is suitable. But there will be those who will not comply, or have older machines, and / or feel they are responsible enough already.
Maybe mandate they are fitted to new builds of off the shelf drones and core level of self build electronics.

Then all we need (or DJI et al) need to do, is stop these things taking a dislike to where or how they are being flown, and seeking 'pastures new'!!

 

[Deleted member 39682]

Dear Members,
FAA drone regulations started with the lack of respect for restricted airspace.
As a fly for fun person I follow the basic rules and any new city ordinances concerning drones.
I can live with the rules, but flying in the line of sight always bothered me.
I spent hundreds of dollars on legal devices to give me more range, DJI developers design drones to be flown for long distances.
If we are honest with each other how many of us only fly in the line of sight.
P.S. Any FAA agents that may be monitoring my post, I always fly in the line of sight.
Best Regards,
William E. Burrows Jr.

 

[sar104]

And I, personally, think that why we don't see reports of 'conventional' R/C craft in the above situations, is the lack of a camera on them. Nothing to show off or brag about (or post on t'net).
That might be a clue as to why it happens.

A more likely explanation is that conventional RC aircraft are unable to be flown out of VLOS and are generally flown at controlled locations.

 

[Jerryatric]

Dear Members,
FAA drone regulations started with the lack of respect for restricted airspace.
As a fly for fun person I follow the basic rules and any new city ordinances concerning drones.
I can live with the rules, but flying in the line of sight always bothered me.
I spent hundreds of dollars on legal devices to give me more range, DJI developers design drones to be flown for long distances.
If we are honest with each other how many of us only fly in the line of sight.
P.S. Any FAA agents that may be monitoring my post, I always fly in the line of sight.
Best Regards,
William E. Burrows Jr.

Kinda liken VLOS rules to Uber driverless cars. The technology is there but certainly not perfected...safety driver required. Technology is there to fly our UAS out of VLOS but is it perfected? Is VLOS our safety driver? Also you have to remember VLOS was mandated by Congress. Nuff said there....

 

[Melvoid]

I was just reading the latest article regarding a near miss of a drone with a commercial airliner. THIS IS WHY WE CANT HAVE NICE THINGS. It's because of the people who think that it's cool to fly drones within 5 meters of an aircraft. Drone operators should have some common sense, no? This is absolutely ridiculous. We already have many regulations imposed on us and acts of stupidity like this just make it harder and harder to do the one thing we all love - fly our drone. Whats your opinion?


Drone nearly collides with Air New Zealand flight | Daily Mail Online

There are two things working on my end. First, I DO have common sense and don't do anything that might hurt anyone or any property... but also, I think of the cost. If I do something stupid, I'm also risking $1,000 or more for a new 'copter. So, while I do think of safety, I'm also thinking of my own financial situation. If I killed mine, I wouldn't last long without getting a new one, but that would put a big dent in my finances, so.... there's more than one way of looking at it.

I've been "collecting" old water towers recently. They're disappearing from the landscape, being replaced by the modern Golf-ball-on-a-tee style. I flew over one a week or so ago, and got a bit too close to an antenna that was on top and it really made me think. I doubt I'd have done any damage to the tower, but it would have probably dropped my P3A about 90 feet to the ground and it would have been $$$$. So, I went again more recently and before I did any passes, I got up to top of the highest point, with the camera straight forward, checked the altitude, and then added 15 feet before I did a flyover.

My 3 cents' worth.

 

[MikeyP]

I spend a lot of time walking in the desert. When I see a rattler, I see what? A threat. It could kill me! IF it were to bite me, I am far too far away to walk to an area where I could get to a phone. IF this, IF that's! What IF it had been rushing toward me with hate in its eyes, trying to head me off from escape? What if I fell over a rock while trying to get away, land it caught up with me and infected me with venom? What if I fell off a cliff because it startled me? If I passed someone on the trail and mentioned that there was a dangerous killer snake on the trail, should that stop them continuing to where they were going? I have actually recorded a close encounter wit a rattle snake and posted it on my Ekim Nosreip you tube channel. It was scary for a moment. But there is no reason to freak out because I SAW a rattler, even close up. All of these stories about stopping the world because someone SAW a drone near by and whoever was flying is an idiot and putting hundreds of lives in danger are just rediculous! Danger lurks around every corner and you can assume anything you want to about WHAT IF. So quick to name call and be judgmental about something you know absolutely nothing about. You all know that if it was you flying a drone " NEAR " an aircraft you wouldn't fly TOWARDS it, and when it passed, or when you fly away, you would know that you were in no way any danger to any one or any thing. I just love all of these people who are so frightened of what they think might have happened if it had been anyone ECEPT them. But you know that if YOU were flying, you know that YOU would be safe. This is better than reading the funny papers! There are so many of you out there that keeps me walking in the desert alone. Safe from all of you "idiots". Drone flyers are more in danger of coming across people like you who are so driven by your superior knowledge about what MIGHT happen that you know what SHOULD Happen to the other idiots you condemn.
Happy flying

 

[Deleted member 62848]

Sounds like you got bite by snake,you just put yourself in the same box for joining in,"idiots"had to read post few times before I reply,superior knowlege I agree with (I'm not one of them)we all just here to have a say,I hope you have a better day tommorow

 

[John Decker]

Nobody bothered call the cops!
When drone imperiled New Zealand plane, nobody called police

 

[Deleted member 62848]

Going to post this here,I can't find othere post about planes put in holding pattern at Auckland airport NZ, it was a ballon