Sad that my flying days are over Monday

For me it comes down to this one sentence...

"Therefore, you should continue to urge the AMA members to avoid any flight over property where no permission has been granted."


Just read that. The "up to the heavens" doctrine is bunk, as most categories of "necessary flight" would intrude. You'd be able to bring action on every commercial aircraft flying overhead otherwise. It was the subject of a Supreme Court case that set precedent (US v. Causby, United States v. Causby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

Realistically, if you are going to overfly someone's property without permission, it should be at an altitude where you do not harass or annoy the owner. Imagine an ultralight pilot flying 50' above your house - you'd be outraged. I think the same principle *should* apply here - in other words, just my opinion.

"Therefore, you should continue to urge the AMA members to avoid any flight over property where no permission has been granted."

They are saying this in the context of uninvited entry always being a trespass; i.e. if your drone overflies or crashes, you have trespassed on the property. I can't speak for every jurisdiction, but in Florida, entry must be intentional to constitute trespass (FS 810.09 1 a), so unless the doctrine of "ground to heavens" is somehow reinstated, as long as you aren't low enough to be in the space (the "lower zone") in which property rights are recognized, you cannot intentionally be trespassing, and a crash would theoretically be unintentional as well.

Again, I think the AMA needs to update these to include the different safety realities attendant to drones vs. fixed wing and traditional rotary wing aircraft.
 
I'm not interested in a legal debate. I do not practice Law.

Once you get past the Criminal aspects of your 'unintentional trespassing', many may face Civil action$.

Having flown model aircraft long enough to know the risks, I conduct my flights accordingly.

I can't quantify safety 'realities' amongst aircraft types cause I have no background in such things.

My belief is the opinion presented has little to nothing to do with the degree of trespass and more to do with safety.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigAl07
I'm not "Sky is falling" for everyone. But, for me and what I like to do, well, it is.
Can't fly over people at any altitude? These goes all the places I fly.
No nighttime? There goes there big venues I work for plus the gorgeous nighttime material I capture and love.

So, for me personally, yeah, death bells until laws change (hopefully)


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots
Keep flying my friend but don't post it. It's all about the chase and having fun.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ROD PAINTER
Hobby flyers can still legally fly at night, you're just supposed to follow a community-based organizations guidelines (such as AMA). Commercial pilots can also ask for an exemption to fly at night.

I asked for a clarification from the AMA on night flights. If a hobbyist is not a member of a CBO like the AMA, the pilot cannot conduct operations at night. Now if you'd like to see the response from the AMA I will gladly PM it to you.
 
I would like to see that. I haven't read anything from the Feds that required joining an org to use their guidelines. With their logic we wouldn't be able to fly anywhere anytime. So again, yes I would like to see that.
Thanks...


Sent from the Traveler from my iPad using PhantomPilots mobile app
 
Fixed wings can travel great distances before 'landing'.

If there's a hundred ways to crash a FW, I've probably experienced 80% of them.
(no one's perfect ;))

Only 80%? Get back out there and fly until you can beat 90% LOL.

Sadly I think I may be in the 99% group LOL! I taught myself to fly (many years before gyro, GPS, and Flight Controllers) and it was rough LOL! I literally destroyed 13 different airplanes before I made my first full take off, controlled, flight and landing that did not result in repairs. Sears and the local Hobby Store were pretty much funded by me and my "allowance" for a few years.
 
Only 80%? Get back out there and fly until you can beat 90% LOL.

Sadly I think I may be in the 99% group LOL! I taught myself to fly (many years before gyro, GPS, and Flight Controllers) and it was rough LOL! I literally destroyed 13 different airplanes before I made my first full take off, controlled, flight and landing that did not result in repairs. Sears and the local Hobby Store were pretty much funded by me and my "allowance" for a few years.


I had a little better luck on the learning curve mostly due to over-building (lots of Epoxy!). But mine were slow, heavy 'Soviet-style' constructed models which couldn't fly fast enough to damage themselves significantly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigAl07
Only 80%? Get back out everythingand fly until you can beat 90% LOL.

Sadly I think I may be in the 99% group LOL! I taught myself to fly (many years before gyro, GPS, and Flight Controllers) and it was rough LOL! I literally destroyed 13 different airplanes before I made my first full take off, controlled, flight and landing that did not result in repairs. Sears and the local Hobby Store were pretty much funded by me and my "allowance" for a few years.
I hear ya. I started rc planes in 1989. First was an arf. Then built everything after that. Mostly scale types. You had to FLY the plane. Gyros were just starting to be introduced. I never had those. Fly it or crash. It was a blast though. Today, these things do most of the flying and you just guide them. Totally different . I just wonder how many of the people now flying drones with gyros, gps, etc could even handle that environment let alone build your craft from sticks, weight and balance, adjusting control surface throws, and learning the ins and outs of keeping an engine running. And they still crash with the new stuff.
 
+1 Monte.

There's no hovering with a 'plank'!!!
Once you take-off, there's no 'time-out(s)'.
 
Only 80%? Get back out there and fly until you can beat 90% LOL.

Sadly I think I may be in the 99% group LOL! I taught myself to fly (many years before gyro, GPS, and Flight Controllers) and it was rough LOL! I literally destroyed 13 different airplanes before I made my first full take off, controlled, flight and landing that did not result in repairs. Sears and the local Hobby Store were pretty much funded by me and my "allowance" for a few years.

Thank goodness for the Duraplane! I probably wouldn't have lasted in the hobby without it! It was fugly, but tough. lol...
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigAl07
I hear ya. I started rc planes in 1989. First was an arf. Then built everything after that. Mostly scale types. You had to FLY the plane. Gyros were just starting to be introduced. I never had those. Fly it or crash. It was a blast though. Today, these things do most of the flying and you just guide them. Totally different . I just wonder how many of the people now flying drones with gyros, gps, etc could even handle that environment let alone build your craft from sticks, weight and balance, adjusting control surface throws, and learning the ins and outs of keeping an engine running. And they still crash with the new stuff.
I still fly my "planks" and make gyros and flight controllers really do change the "effort" in flying. I've got a cub that in order to land I cut the throttle and don't even touch a single control. I line up for the landing area and literally kill power. The SAFE Technology maintains descent angle, heading and wings level all the way to the ground. Easy as... well it's effortless LOL.

Thank goodness for the Duraplane! I probably wouldn't have lasted in the hobby without it! It was fugly, but tough. lol...
Ah the DuraPlane! That was a FUN platform. We used to "Dog Fight" with those by dangling streamers from the tail and then trying to cut them with our props. I was flying over the lake when a streamer wrapped around a wing tip and I watched my DuraPlane (or was it a Swizzle Stick) spiral into the lake. Luckily there was a guy on a boat "Dredging" and he went over, pulled the plane and brought it to me. The Rx was fried but that was the only loss LOL
 
  • Like
Reactions: jhax01
I
Thank goodness for the Duraplane! I probably wouldn't haWhen lasted in the hobby without it! It was fugly, but tough. lol...
I have a J3 Cub. Built it with full wing rather than clipped. 72 inches. Running a Saito 65 four stroke. When landing, I have to cut the engine the day before cause it will float in ground effect forever. Sure sounds cool flying slow with that four stroke. I did it in military colors. I have a Ryan STA with 72 inch wing running a Super Tigre 90. I also have a smaller GeeBee D model running a four stroke OS. I love the 30s era planes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jhax01
I'm not "Sky is falling" for everyone. But, for me and what I like to do, well, it is.
Can't fly over people at any altitude? These goes all the places I fly.
No nighttime? There goes there big venues I work for plus the gorgeous nighttime material I capture and love.

So, for me personally, yeah, death bells until laws change (hopefully)


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots
Get a license get a COA or a 333 to do the things you need to do. It's not all over. Get a drone attorney to help you. www.dronelaw.pro. they did my 333
 
  • Like
Reactions: Falcon900
I asked for a clarification from the AMA on night flights. If a hobbyist is not a member of a CBO like the AMA, the pilot cannot conduct operations at night. Now if you'd like to see the response from the AMA I will gladly PM it to you.
Well, I wonder if a 'new' CBO called, "Night Flyers Anonymous" will form and qualify.. :)
 
I asked for a clarification from the AMA on night flights. If a hobbyist is not a member of a CBO like the AMA, the pilot cannot conduct operations at night. Now if you'd like to see the response from the AMA I will gladly PM it to you.

Don't believe the AMA on that one. Pretty self serving answer. Now if the FAA says you must be a member, that's a different story.


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots
 
  • Like
Reactions: joet
Don't believe the AMA on that one. Pretty self serving answer. Now if the FAA says you must be a member, that's a different story.


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots

Whether or not you believe it it's a fact. Now if your game go night flying without being certified under 107 and a waiver for night activity and hopefully you don't get caught doing so.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Falcon900
Isn't it great to find so many doubting thomases and know it alls in one place. A dollar for each one an I'd have enough to go out drinking and worry about something else that really matters.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Falcon900
Just to get clarification......after this past Monday....as hobbyists, we can still go out and fly as long as we follow the guidelines right (and we're registered with FAA)?
 
  • Like
Reactions: cfd701
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: cfd701
was that nessary.gif
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
143,096
Messages
1,467,618
Members
104,981
Latest member
brianklenhart