Sad that my flying days are over Monday

[joet]

I'm not the one who made that assertion. Why don't you post the text or link to Part 101 that you are referring to?

Sorry, confused you with the member that made that assertion.


eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations

14 CFR--PART 101
Amendment(s) published June 28, 2016, in 81 FR 42208
Effective Dates: August 29, 2016

15. Add subpart E, consisting of §§101.41 and 101.43, to read as follows:

Subpart E—Special Rule for Model Aircraft

§101.41 Applicability.
This subpart prescribes rules governing the operation of a model aircraft (or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft) that meets all of the following conditions as set forth in section 336 of Public Law 112-95:

(a) The aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;

(b) The aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;

(c) The aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered by a community-based organization;

(d) The aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and

(e) When flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation.

§101.43 Endangering the safety of the National Airspace System.
No person may operate model aircraft so as to endanger the safety of the national airspace system.​

You want to tell someone else to prove something they said but you provide no link or specifics for what you said. And how does section 336 now being part of Part 101 make it any different than what I posted? I was actually trying to add actual codified regulation to the discussion, something you couldn't do.

What was posted was:

Hobbyists have Guidelines, not Rules...

...And then posted a link to the Special RULE for Model Aircraft, which is now codified as 14 CFR Part 101.

Everyone from today on will either fly under Part 101 (hobby) or 107 (commercial). Both are FAA regulations, which the FAA can (and says they will) enforce, just as all other aviation-related flying categories are.

 

[GadgetGuy]

I'm not the one who made that assertion. Why don't you post the text or link to Part 101 that you are referring to? You want to tell someone else to prove something they said but you provide no link or specifics for what you said. And how does section 336 now being part of Part 101 make it any different than what I posted? I was actually trying to add actual codified regulation to the discussion, something you couldn't do.

The operative words in your helpful link are "operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines..."

 

[GadgetGuy]

Sorry, confused you with the member that made that assertion.


eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations

14 CFR--PART 101
Amendment(s) published June 28, 2016, in 81 FR 42208
Effective Dates: August 29, 2016

15. Add subpart E, consisting of §§101.41 and 101.43, to read as follows:

Subpart E—Special Rule for Model Aircraft

§101.41 Applicability.
This subpart prescribes rules governing the operation of a model aircraft (or an aircraft being developed as a model aircraft) that meets all of the following conditions as set forth in section 336 of Public Law 112-95:

(a) The aircraft is flown strictly for hobby or recreational use;

(b) The aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;

(c) The aircraft is limited to not more than 55 pounds unless otherwise certified through a design, construction, inspection, flight test, and operational safety program administered by a community-based organization;

(d) The aircraft is operated in a manner that does not interfere with and gives way to any manned aircraft; and

(e) When flown within 5 miles of an airport, the operator of the aircraft provides the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport) with prior notice of the operation.

§101.43 Endangering the safety of the National Airspace System.
No person may operate model aircraft so as to endanger the safety of the national airspace system.​

What was posted was:



...And then posted a link to the Special RULE for Model Aircraft, which is now codified as 14 CFR Part 101.

Everyone from today on will either fly under Part 101 (hobby) or 107 (commercial). Both are FAA regulations, which the FAA can (and says they will) enforce, just as all other aviation-related flying categories are.

...and what "Rules" would apply if one does NOT "meet all of the following conditions as set forth in section 336 of Public Law 112-95" and the UAS is not used commercially?

 

[joet]

...and what "Rules" would apply if one does NOT "meet all of the following conditions as set forth in section 336 of Public Law 112-95" and the UAS is not used commercially?

Unless it is under .55 lbs, presumably you are flying illegally.

EDIT: You are.

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/Notice_UAS_7210.891.pdf

6. Scope. This notice covers UAS operations in the NAS. For the purposes of this notice, a small UA is defined as weighing less than 55 pounds; a UA weighing 55 pounds or more is considered large.

7. Policy. FAA policy for UAS operations is that no person may operate a UAS, including tethered UAS, outside of active restricted, prohibited or warning areas in the NAS without specific authority.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Unless it is under .55 lbs, presumably you are flying illegally.

It's that "presumably" that isn't a Rule...

 

[joet]

It's that "presumably" that isn't a Rule...

Edited my post above.

 

[BigAl07]

With the FAA's recent announcements etc you are either flying 100% within the Hobby box or you need to be flying under a Part 107 certification. They've taken the "Grey Area" out of the equation.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Edited my post above.

"Should" does not mean "Shall" or "Must"...


Model Aircraft (Hobbyist).

1. (1) A model aircraft flown strictly for hobby or recreational use.
   
   
2. (2) Most small UAS are owned by individuals and cannot be used for commercial purposes. Individuals flying for hobby or recreation should follow safety guidelines outlined in AC 91-57A which include:

1. (a) Fly at or below 400 feet and remain clear of surrounding obstacles.
   
   
2. (b) Keep the aircraft within visual line of sight at all times.
   
   
3. (c) Remain well clear of and do not interfere with manned aircraft operations.
   
   
4. (d) Don't fly within 5 miles of an airport unless the hobbyist contacts the airport operator and control tower (if operating at a tower controlled airport) before flying.
   
   
5. (e) Don't fly near people or stadiums.
   
   
6. (f) Don't fly an aircraft that weighs 55 lbs. or more.
   
   
7. (g) Don't be careless or reckless with the unmanned aircraft – hobbyists could be fined for endangering people or other aircraft.
   
   
8. (h) Model aircraft operators flying from a permanent location within 5 miles of an airport should establish a mutually agreed upon operating procedure with the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (if operating at a tower controlled airport).
   
   
9. (i) Model aircraft must not operate in Temporary Flight Restriction Areas (TFR), Prohibited Areas, Restricted Areas, Special Flight Rules Areas, or the Washington National Capital Region Flight Restricted Zone, without specific authorization.

Should is a "Guideline" and not a "Rule"...

The overriding Rule is that, "Thou shalt not fly recklessly or endanger people or other aircraft."

 

[flpholt]

"Should" does not mean "Shall" or "Must"...


Model Aircraft (Hobbyist).

1. (1) A model aircraft flown strictly for hobby or recreational use.
   
   
2. (2) Most small UAS are owned by individuals and cannot be used for commercial purposes. Individuals flying for hobby or recreation should follow safety guidelines outlined in AC 91-57A which include:

1. (a) Fly at or below 400 feet and remain clear of surrounding obstacles.
   
   
2. (b) Keep the aircraft within visual line of sight at all times.
   
   
3. (c) Remain well clear of and do not interfere with manned aircraft operations.
   
   
4. (d) Don't fly within 5 miles of an airport unless the hobbyist contacts the airport operator and control tower (if operating at a tower controlled airport) before flying.
   
   
5. (e) Don't fly near people or stadiums.
   
   
6. (f) Don't fly an aircraft that weighs 55 lbs. or more.
   
   
7. (g) Don't be careless or reckless with the unmanned aircraft – hobbyists could be fined for endangering people or other aircraft.
   
   
8. (h) Model aircraft operators flying from a permanent location within 5 miles of an airport should establish a mutually agreed upon operating procedure with the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (if operating at a tower controlled airport).
   
   
9. (i) Model aircraft must not operate in Temporary Flight Restriction Areas (TFR), Prohibited Areas, Restricted Areas, Special Flight Rules Areas, or the Washington National Capital Region Flight Restricted Zone, without specific authorization.

Should is a "Guideline" and not a "Rule"...

I agree guidelines not rules so distance runs are on

 

[joet]

"Should" does not mean "Shall" or "Must"..

(2) Most small UAS are owned by individuals and cannot be used for commercial purposes. Individuals flying for hobby or recreation should follow safety guidelines outlined in AC 91-57A which include:
Should is a "Guideline" and not a "Rule"...

..Except that this is a summary and not the actual regulation. The actual regulation (as I quoted above from the CFR) says:

(b) The aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;
​

...And that is not a guideline.

 

[GadgetGuy]

..Except that this is a summary and not the actual regulation. The actual regulation (as I quoted above from the CFR) says:

(b) The aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;
​

...And that is not a guideline.

What part of the word "guidelines" above is not a Guideline?

 

[NoWheels498]

[QUOTE="The actual regulation (as I quoted above from the CFR) says:

(b) The aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;
​

...And that is not a guideline.[/QUOTE]

Could not the "Phantom Pilots Forum" a nationwide community organization, publish this set of safety guideline ? Then we as members of said organization are following the regulation?



Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots mobile app

 

[jason]

Hobbyists have Guidelines, not Rules...

Sorry Gadget but the government doesn't see it you way. Sec 336 are special rules and if you have any doubts about it lookup Public Law 112-95 section 336 for yourself. Those rules are subject to change in Sept 2017.

 

[jason]

A few here really have a problem with their reading skills.

 

[Butterpuff 6]

Sorry Gadget but the government doesn't see it you way. Sec 336 are special rules and if you have any doubts about it lookup Public Law 112-95 section 336 for yourself. Those rules are subject to change in Sept 2017.

You do realize that Sec 336 is now part of Part 101 and is law, correct?

 

[jason]

You do realize that Sec 336 is now part of Part 101 and is law, correct?

It really doesn't matter 14CFR--Part 101 (section 336) was changed to Subpart E—Special Rule for Model Aircraft but the text within is unchanged.

 

[srosen]

I registered with the FAA a few weeks ago as a hobby flyer, joined the AMA, send notice to a nearby heliport when I fly as agreed to with the tower, keep my attitude under 400' and rarely fly at night. I live on the Hudson River in NY and do almost all of my flying on the water within VLOS range (which under certain conditions can be over 2000') - Is there any need for me to change anything under the new laws on the books ?


Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots

 

[GadgetGuy]

[QUOTE="The actual regulation (as I quoted above from the CFR) says:

(b) The aircraft is operated in accordance with a community-based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community-based organization;
​

...And that is not a guideline.

"Could not the "Phantom Pilots Forum" a nationwide community organization, publish this set of safety guideline ? Then we as members of said organization are following the regulation?
Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots mobile app

Indeed! Although the AMA would have you believe that they are the one and only nationwide community based organization, if that was the case, the FAA would have stated you have to follow the AMA Guidelines. We here have our own community-based set of safety Guidelines! We hereby reject the AMA Guidelines and adopt as our only safety Guideline "No reckless flying!" That has been the FAA's ONLY overriding guideline for everyone all along, and if it is good enough for the FAA, it's good enough for us! It covers everything!

 

[joet]

I registered with the FAA a few weeks ago as a hobby flyer, joined the AMA, send notice to a nearby heliport when I fly as agreed to with the tower, keep my attitude under 400' and rarely fly at night. I live on the Hudson River in NY and do almost all of my flying on the water within VLOS range (which under certain conditions can be over 2000') - Is there any need for me to change anything under the new laws on the books ?


Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots

Nope, you're fine.

 

[joet]

"Could not the "Phantom Pilots Forum" a nationwide community organization, publish this set of safety guideline ? Then we as members of said organization are following the regulation?
Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots mobile app

Indeed! Although the AMA would have you believe that they are the one and only nationwide community based organization, if that was the case, the FAA would have stated you have to follow the AMA Guidelines. We here have our own community-based set of safety Guidelines! We hereby reject the AMA Guidelines and adopt as our only safety Guideline "No reckless flying!" That has been the FAA's ONLY overriding guideline for everyone all along, and if it is good enough for the FAA, it's good enough for us! It covers everything!

"Section 336(a)(2) requires model aircraft to be operated within a community- based set of safety guidelines and within the programming of a nationwide community- based organization. Congress explained that it intended “nationwide community-based organization” to mean, in part, a “membership based association that represents the aeromodeling community within the Unites States; [and] provides its members a comprehensive set of safety guidelines that underscores safe aeromodeling operations within the National Airspace System and the protection and safety of the general public on the ground . . . .” U.S. House, FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, Conference Report (to Accompany H.R. 658), 112 H. Rpt. 381 (Feb. 1, 2012) (discussion of special rule for model aircraft). Based on this language, which provides context to Congress’ use of the term “nationwide community-based organization,” the FAA expects that model aircraft operations conducted under section 336(a) will be operated according to those guidelines."

So if you can convince the FAA that registering for a DJI Phantom-specific forum that hasn't developed and published such a set of guidelines qualifies, then sure!

Joking aside, such an organization could be founded, but it would be a pretty serious undertaking. I read somewhere that the FAA stated that the AMA was the only organization that they were aware of that currently met the definition. Maybe there is another out there?