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Real alternatives GPS quads to the phantom

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by denodan, Jul 12, 2013.

  1. denodan

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  2. Mark P

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  3. denodan

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  4. CameraGuy

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    I like what I saw except for one little thing.

    No matter what, it will need a gimbal, most likely brushless if you are going to fly in any wind at all. That's an issue and this unis has NO space under the body to hold any kind of gimbal.

    Will it work in calm, no wind situations, I'll bet it does, but I really think the gimbal is mandatory right now.

    Darren
     
  5. denodan

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    I don't think they are mandatory at all, I don''t have one and won't have one, like to keep the weight down, and these small quads are not designed for gimbals anyway, they add a lot of extra weight you don't need. If you want gimbals and all that other gear buy something bigger.

    The Phantom was made to put a GoPro on and enable videos, and not professional photos. I enjoy my Phantom most of the time with no camera, so don't want to have a heavy gimbal always on when I don't need it.

    Anyway if you want a Gimbal get the vision, it will be all set up for it, and bigger battery and compartment, the standard Phantom was never designed in the first place for one.

    I still can and do enjoy my Phantom with just the GoPro attached with no Gimbal. Seems a lot of you guys with Gimbals are getting pitiful flight times, I would rather go for something bigger if I wanted Pro videos, and seems most People would not care less about a gimbal.

    I love that look much better than the Phantom. And at the price of $469 with TX is cheaper then the Phantom, I may well get one of these also.
     
  6. CameraGuy

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    Ok, so you are enjoying your phantom as a flying machine. I can respect that. The Vision is not really going to replace the image quality of a GoPro 3 Black. It has never been promoted to do so.

    These other copters discussed in this thread will also give you great flying experiences.

    There are those of us, who would like to capture great video, and contrary to your opinion, DJI has promoted the Phantom as being able to do that.Most of us are disappointed because of the vibration issues from the props/motors and the lack of a gimbal.

    I have a gimbal, and now have ordered a brushless one so I could capture clean, jello free video. My comment was about the lack of space below the new competitors not having enough room for a gimbal.

    Happy flying. I just want great video too.Perhaps I should have done a DIY, which I initially did with a Storm from Helipal, but the Phantom made promises that so far have not been kept.

    Like I said, Happy flying. Don't worry about recording quality video, but for me, that's what this is about.

    Darren
     
  7. edunwody

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    I have yet to get quality video and that's why I bought the Phantom. I had a GP2 when I got the Phantom. Terrible jello. I balanced the props and purchased a GB3B. Better but still small amounts of Jello.
    So I have a Zenmuse on order and hope to have it installed late next week.
    If I can't get stable footage after that, then I have wasted quite a bit of money.
    Fingers crossed.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. GoodnNuff

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    That still doesn't make a gimbal "mandatory" though, does it?

    Some of us prefer to fly and don't care about aerial photography as much.

    One day there will be a quick release brushless gimbal on the market, and that is what I'm waiting for since I fly more without a camera than I do with. If that means I'll need to modify the landing gear, so be it.

    In fact many of us come from an RC plane/truck/car/boat background, and modification to our "toys" is ongoing and part of the fun of the hobby!
     
  9. edunwody

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    They are fun to fly. I will admit that.

    E


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. Driffill

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    I'm just using a goodlucksell 2 axis servo gimbal, it cost me about $40 and most importantly, it works :) take that ZM! :)

    I've bought some connectors the same as the servo connectors and I'm going to set it up so I can unplug the gimbal (and remover it) without having to open the shell, plus I will be able to shorten the servo cables and save a little weight (the extra plugs will offset any saving, but its still better than just adding extra plugs!)
     
  11. GoodnNuff

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    That's what I'm talking about! Keep us updated and let us know how this works out.
     
  12. Driffill

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    http://youtu.be/kwePoMKVx5U

    That is the first flight with the gimbal. I'm quite proud of my soft landing too :)
    I didn't have the 7th channel kit running in this video, this was taken just after I had set up and "tuned" the gimbal. No FPV running either.

    Have a look at the other flight videos I have posted, I'm not certain, but I seem to have more jello in the gimbal vid than with the stock set up of screwing it direct to the shell?
     
  13. freelanceshots

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    CameraGuy and Daren I agree with both you guys here whole heartedly. Somehow when I bought mine with the intentions/illusion of achieving high levels of stabization and professional looking video and photo, I wasn't thinking about wind and the affect it would have on the video. I learned very quickly that outside variables played a huge part on the type of video you'd end up with. There was like 1 or 2 days only here in Texas for months while I owned mine were the wind was below 10mph if that. I found myself watching the weather online daily so that I'd be ready for these special days. I still flew daily but I never attempted any of the video projects that I really wanted to try. Got to once with my pool sequence but that was just the beginning of this type of work and a learning experience on its own.

    With this said I liked flying my phantom with just a anti-jello mount and the sony action cam attached because it was what it was. Very lite, decent flight time, and very responsive to fly. If the wind was really low, I could get real close to what I wanted and still fly with some authority. I am on the side of the fence where I think it's kind of silly to try and imagine this quadcopter loaded down with FVP gear, a bigger battery, camera, anti-jello mount, and a 2 axis gimbal of any sort. 5 to 6 min worth of flight time is practically worthless in my opinion where I couldn't get nothing done without 3 or 4 batteries. One would have to land as soon as things just got going. 11 to 13 minutes with my Phantom and camera was just barely getting it done before frustration set in or crash landing. Another aspect if using FVP gear and flying further distances would be no way to see the information light and the first stage of LVP. One would have to set this really high and hopefully gauge it correctly on when to start bring it home. easy to mess up as I found out. When I got mine back in February I wasn't aware of the battery LV buzzers, the wireless battery monitor options or any other gadgets so when this thing ran low on battery power it would just land or pretty much fall out of the sky to a point. Once this craft was 100 feet or more away from me the information light then become invisible to me. Again no fun just flying in a 25 to 50 foot circle.

    Getting simple video footage at first while learning was fun, but after that, flying in a open fields/yards/front streets/neighborhoods just didn't do it for me anymore and that's why I wanted to fly to places where you couldn't physically go, didn't have direct access to or you couldn't do it unless you sprouted wings. On the second go around I'd really like to consider a Flame Wheel 450/550 but since loosing my Phantom and how easily it was to do I'm not real sure I want to throw another 1000 to 1500 towards this activity. I think keeping it simple is the way to go to keep costs down in the case it crashes and it can't be recovered or hits the water. Also the wind thing is more of a realization this time. No way around that unless you spend more money on a gimbal and an appropriate aircraft to carry it plus a degree in engineering to install and then troubleshoot it.

    I'm liking the aircraft mentioned above and the price sounds about right for me. Already has the functional anti-jello mount and looks like a great quad to fly around with nothing more then a go-pro. I now realize its going to be more about fun on my second go around but there will always be that passion inside me that craves high levels of video and still images. Since it seems to be against the law here to use these craft for business purposes I really doubt seeing myself spending the money for a fully outfitted FW550 or S800 but they sure look badass.

    I like these threads because it opens my eyes to other options that people see. Keep them coming as I'm interested.
     
  14. denodan

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    I think if you guys want proessional shoots, then the Phantom is not a good platform for this, its too small and adding gimbals just bogs it down, gives poorer handling more stress on motors and bearings, generating more heat, so a lot more wear and tear, and poor flight times.

    Your better off with a bigger quadcopter, one that can handle gimbals a lot better, without reducing flight times or handling.

    The Phantom was always designed for fun and simple video use and works pretty well at doing this.

    Sure I have some jello, but don't care, it does for me what it meant to, and most of the time don't have the camera on so enjoy long flight times. and will the jello, I can live with it, seen much worse. I prefer to keep the weight down.

    If I want professional videos then would buy a quad suitable for the task. Frankly the Phantom is not a good platform for pro videos, the flight time is just to short, but the time you add this and that to make it more pro, not worth the effort.

    It reminds me of guys sticking go pros on the AR Drone which is stupid, why not just buy a decent quad in the first place.

    Also from what I have read, many people out grow the Phantom quickly and progress to larger quads anyway, so what the point of bogging down the Phantom?

    To me it makes sense to just buy a quad suitable for pro video use if I wanted pro videos, I would certainly not even concerned the Phantom, so why turn the phantom into something it is not? Sure many do, but at the expense of poorer handling and very poor flight times, just not worth the expense to me?
     
  15. Roadkilt

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    This is some of the most intelligent discussion I've seen in this forum. This is a sophisticated hobby level flyer, capable of pretty good video under optimal conditions. But it is not super powerful to carry hefty gimbals, or long flight times, or GPS enabled waypoint flying for real photography. That said, it does a hell of a great job if you :1 shoot in calm wind, 2: use some kind of vibration absorber (I prefer the wire isolation mount instead of the rubber balls, subject of a later post but I've tested them both) 3: use stabilization software to smooth out the jitters and jello, and mostly 4: only use smooth shots! You can slow them down in the software so they are even smoother. I typically only use 5 to 10 seconds max out of every minute of flying. How many photos have you liked out of all you took? A few? Same for video. Anyway, enough yakking. Have a look at this video. No gimbal, a mild wind but not too bad, used about 10% of the video I shot, stabilized and slowed it down in Final Cut Pro. For a hobby kit it's pretty **** good and if it dove into the ocean I would be able to possibly get back the gopro. No worries about soldering Zenmuses, stressing plastic shells or short flight times. Sometimes I think we expect too much of these things, even though they are pricey little devils. Remember we are on the cutting edge of tech here, that costs money. This device didn't even exist 12 months ago!
    Keep,up the great dialogue, very interesting.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvw0yBKMtco&sns=em

    Check out how smooth you can go without gimbal and carbon props.
     
  16. CameraGuy

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    No, it doesn't make a GImbal Mandatory. Frankly, if you just want to have some fun flying a quad, go at it.

    The Phantom was and is marketed by DJI as an inexpensive HD video recording platform. How can I make this statement?

    1. Colin talks about it in ALL his online demo videos, his web site, his public speaking, all trade shows - need I go on?

    2. He paid Tens of thousands of dollars to attend NAB in Las Vegas. Nab is the National Association of Broadcasters - yes you read it right BROADCASTERS to demo and sell his products to the PROFESSIONALS who attend that show. For your information, there are between 100,000 and 125,000 visitors from television stations, and video production companies from all over the world who attend. He sold Thousands of units at the show.

    3. The Zenmuse GImbal, which is priced higher than the Phantom it self is designed to get stable, jello free video out of a GoPro.

    4. The GoPro is used in professional video and broadcast production daily. It is accepted now on BBC, Discovery, PBS - these are the toughest broadcasters to get on to. Their quality standard manuals are thicker than a big city phone book.

    My comment, which seems to have hit a nerve with you makes little sense to me. All I said about the new comers to the market are there didn't seem to be room to provide a stable platform for jello free, properly oriented video. I didn't say you couldn't fly it for fun without a camera. I didn't say you needed to strive for HQ video. All I said was that there wasn't room for a GImbal.

    Darren
     
  17. GoodnNuff

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    No Dan, it takes more than words to hit my nerves! :)

    I was just attempting to verbalize a different perspective, but both responses you've posted seem a bit defensive.
    Sorry if you feel that way, it certainly wasn't my intention to anger you.
    But I don't think a gimbal is mandatory, which is all I was replying to with my post.

    And DJI's own website lists the Phantom under the heading "Flying for Fun" and under "Aerial Photography" they list all their other copters.

    Peace Out CameraGuy
     
  18. CameraGuy

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    First, my name is Darren, not Dan. :roll:

    Second, your initial post to me was an attack, my responses have not been defensive - until this one - I have simply stated why I DON'T LIKE THE NEW BIRDS. Since my divorce, I have learned I get to have my own opinion, which is all that I stated. :lol:

    Your statements say that no one needs a Gimbal. That's clearly your opinion, not a prevailing one by those of us who want to make the best video possible - but an opinion. I respect your right to have one, I just don't like your insistence that it is correct. It may be correct for you, which is fine, but it isn't for those of us who want better video. You need to respect that.

    So, I'm not going to continue to dance with you on this. Reply if you must, and I suspect you will, but I won't respond. It's a silly argument and I don't need one.

    Enjoy your Phantom :D

    Darren
     
  19. GoodnNuff

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    When you put words in my mouth, I have to respond. :|

    I said "a gimbal is not mandatory" which is a vastly different statement than "no one needs a gimbal."

    And that was in response to your statement that gimbals need to be mandatory...

    Sigh...