RAW is processed, JPG is not

[inkytog]

Even video quality is bad in 4k.
Recorded in 4k 60 fps, iso 100 f/10 sh 120.
Sharpness contrast and sat were -1-3-2
Slightly sharpened and graded in post, exported in original format with full bitrate.
There must be something fishy here, dont you agree?
Ive seen superb video quality from this camera, this looks like upscaled 1080, and possibly worse...

Lots of info about this. Forget 4k 60p. It throws away lines. Try 4k 30p instead. Leave everything at 0-0-0. Colour profile 'none'

 

[ianwood]

OK. There is no contrast, sharpening, saturation or any other processing applied to the DNG. What you get is what the sensor saw. If anything, your JPEGs look like they are being desaturated by one or more settings.

Try a full reset or even reload firmware. Delete app, clear any cached settings and reinstall. You may also want to consider how you are working with your DNGs. I've seen DNG metadata get misunderstood resulting in images that look processed.

And if 12 stops is not enough for you, you have a steep budget ahead of you.

 

[gr8pics]

Lots of info about this. Forget 4k 60p. It throws away lines. Try 4k 30p instead. Leave everything at 0-0-0. Colour profile 'none'

Ok wlll do a new test in 30p alongside with 60p then, to see what difference it makes. Will do a long hover shot and switch settings on site.

 

[gr8pics]

OK. There is no contrast, sharpening, saturation or any other processing applied to the DNG. What you get is what the sensor saw. If anything, your JPEGs look like they are being desaturated by one or more settings.

Try a full reset or even reload firmware. Delete app, clear any cached settings and reinstall. You may also want to consider how you are working with your DNGs. I've seen DNG metadata get misunderstood resulting in images that look processed.

And if 12 stops is not enough for you, you have a steep budget ahead of you.

I will perform a full reset as a last resort.

 

[gr8pics]

I'm not sure if your dissatisfaction is due to the camera or the way you are using it.
From my experience I would say it is a great camera and certainly not over-hyped.
On the ground I use a 36MP Nikon and the P4p isn't in that league but it's a huge improvement beyond previous DJI cameras.
The sensor size is >4x bigger than the sensor from the P3/P4 cameras but that's still a small sensor.

I think DJI have done very well to get the results that are possible with this camera.

Speaking of ship's rope as an example ....
Here's a shot I took recently with the P4p

And here's a crop of a 470 x 300 pixel area (0.7% of the original image) showing the rope on the winch above the ship's name.

I can't complain about that for detail from a small sensor.

Ill admit that is very impressive, even if you have all the light in the world and the largest reflector you can get Do you have any pictures similar to the one i used in my example, low sun, large contrast areas between shadow and highlight?
So maybe it is the camera after all then, i already replaced it once, so this will be the third unit, that alone is not very impressive, or maybe they had a really large batch of faulty ones, cause the lens misalignment have been confirmed several times around now.
Im a stubborn basterd, so im not gonna quit before everything has been tested, but i do start to feel exhausted after all this now...

That many of you got units working flawlessly is great for you, but doesnt help those of us who havent, and not all of us are stupid, like ive seen certain people address the ones with problems in a down condescending way.
I think DJI have filled out quite allot of RMAs on this model by now, and not just cause people dont know better.

I also noticed on these forums, that people of "high ranks" or thousands of postings are quick to judge new members as amateurs with no knowledge about anything, please stop that, theres allot of resourceful people out there that probably have ten times more knowledge than yourself, gained over years with experience, which also would love to share and teach, but if you start jumping at them, they will just stop, even if they could advice you with personal experience on that field.
Dont take it personally that a "rookie" sometimes knows better than you, or even worse, get offended by it, take advantage of it instead, to gain even more knowledge yourself, ask more instead of judging, and you will be amazed to see how many people smiles back at you if you smile at them

Have a nice one everybody.
Peace out!

 

[juicedrummer]

I am not seeing the problem here either. As described before your jpeg images are taking the color profile you have set and selected in your camera settings. Also as stated before the raw image captures what the camera sees. When opening the raw image in a raw editor such as Adobe camera raw, the image contains a ton of information regardless of what the on screen image looks like when you open it. If it looks too contrasty, slide the contrast bar to the left, if it looks to bright, bring the highlights down. I am not understanding your issue with not enough latitude in the image. 40mb is plenty of latitude to work with.


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots

 

[The-CROW]

Hey gr8pics, I too am a pro sports photog and totally understand your issue.
I think you are right, judging from the samples you posted, (I couldn't download your full files cos you have deleted them), the raw images seem post processed in comparison to the jpeg files. This is not the case with my P4. I have ordered a P4P and untill it arrives, I cannot test.
If you need an extra opinion let me know, I'll download your files and take a look while running them in my workflow.

 

[inkytog]

Not sure where this post is going. The OP was about a strange phenomenon the OP had that the raw file looked processed and the JPEG not.
Solutions were offered. The OP I think has sent the drone back 3 times.

Either this is user error or the kit isn't suitable for the OP. Either way he needs to make a decision as to whether he will keep the Phantom or return it because the quality for his application isn't good enough. It's no one else's decision from here on in.

Do a reset, reinstall F/W and the app and see. If you're still not happy then find an alternative solution. Simple.

 

[The-CROW]

I agree about doing a reset and firmware reinstall as it seems it's a software bug.

 

[ianwood]

OK. Repeat after me: "RAW is NOT post-processed."

Maybe the metadata is wrong. Maybe your tools aren't reading the metadata correctly.

So you might have to move a slider or two!

 

[inkytog]

OK. Repeat after me: "RAW is NOT post-processed."

Maybe the metadata is wrong. Maybe your tools aren't reading the metadata correctly.

So you might have to move a slider or two!

And he's whining that the jpegs (which will not be used) look less processed than the raw file (which will be used and adjusted?

The whole post is utterly futile.
What's the bet there is Dlog set or something.

 

[The-CROW]

Sorry guys, I mean no disrespect and certainly don't mean to start any kind of argument; but the OP is not saying that his Jpegs look less processed than the Raw files.
His whole point is that the Raw files look to have some kind of processing which should never be the case with Raw files; Raw files should always look flat. He provided the Jpegs just as a reference to show the issue. If we follow the hypothesis that the Raw images were in fact post processed before being recorded by the drone, they will lose a lot of their flexibility and headroom for processing afterwards. This is the OP's concern.
As a full-time photographer myself, working with Raw files from different cameras all the time, I do believe he's right just by looking at the files he shared. Whatever the source of the problem might be; the drone's firmware or his workflow, it remains to be determined.
I offered to check his original files on my system just to provide a second opinion to him and whoever might be interested in this thread.
Thank you kindly.

 

[juicedrummer]

Sorry guys, I mean no disrespect and certainly don't mean to start any kind of argument; but the OP is not saying that his Jpegs look less processed than the Raw files.
His whole point is that the Raw files look to have some kind of processing which should never be the case with Raw files; Raw files should always look flat. He provided the Jpegs just as a reference to show the issue. If we follow the hypothesis that the Raw images were in fact post processed before being recorded by the drone, they will lose a lot of their flexibility and headroom for processing afterwards. This is the OP's concern.
As a full-time photographer myself, working with Raw files from different cameras all the time, I do believe he's right just by looking at the files he shared. Whatever the source of the problem might be; the drone's firmware or his workflow, it remains to be determined.
I offered to check his original files on my system just to provide a second opinion to him and whoever might be interested in this thread.
Thank you kindly.

But the rest of us are just curious as to why this is a big deal as all the information is still there and you can edit the image in a raw editor any way he'd like?


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots

 

[The-CROW]

But the rest of us are just curious as to why this is a big deal as all the information is still there and you can edit the image in a raw editor any way he'd like?


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots

This is exactly the point: If the Raw files were processed in any way before being recorded by the drone, the information will NOT still be there for processing afterwards. For example if the contrast was raised a certain value before being recorded, it will lose the same amount of contrast headroom afterwards, so the OP won't be able to raise it as much as if the file was not altered initially. Because that new value would become the starting point instead of the default one, and this cannot be undone.

 

[ianwood]

Once again: "RAW is NOT post-processed."

 

[The-CROW]

Once again: "RAW is NOT post-processed."

Exactly!! It's impossible in theory, unless there was something wrong with the camera saving the file. The OP is saying that in his case it is happening! And by the looks of it, it seems so. Maybe it's a software bug in his drone, maybe not. Again, not starting a futile discussion nor beating a dead horse, it's just that I understand where the OP is coming from and it's indeed very weird. I'm curious to see how this issue will be solved.

 

[ianwood]

And I am saying it's not possible. A RAW file is raw by definition. There is no capability in the camera to change the image data in the RAW file. The only way you can process a raw file is to change the metadata which doesn't actually change the RAW image. So, again, there are two possibilities: something is wrong in the metadata or something is wrong in the whatever is interpreting the metadata. Either way, there is no data lost. Adjust as necessary and you're done.

 

[CheongBentong]

Hi all,
It's so simple.
RAW = Flat to the eyes (and it is Flat with the actual meaning)
Jpeg = Pleasant to the eyes (when properly taken)
All photograpers are well versed with this.
So, what gr8pics says is ... the images are reversed. Should be the other way round. He is pointing out the peculiar files which are reversed.
Sorry to say ~~ Drones pilots are mostly Drones savvy.
Photographers are Photography savvy..... they aim for Excellence in their photographs.

 

[F3honda4me]

Hi all,
It's so simple.
RAW = Flat to the eyes (and it is Flat with the actual meaning)
Jpeg = Pleasant to the eyes (when properly taken)
All photograpers are well versed with this.
So, what gr8pics says is ... the images are reversed. Should be the other way round. He is pointing out the peculiar files which are reversed.
Sorry to say ~~ Drones pilots are mostly Drones savvy.
Photographers are Photography savvy..... they aim for Excellence in their photographs.

This has gone beyond a point of being ridiculous. RAW does not mean the image will automatically look like a super flat file (dlog for video for example). Dlog is processed. RAW means RAW. It means it you have your exposure settings, fstop, etc correct the image will come out looking very good and natural and will need only a bit of post processing. That is a RAW file. RAW does NOT mean flat to the eyes. If anything it means as close to what it looks like to your eyes naturally. My wife, who has been a professional photographer for decades, shooting both film and digital, instantly knew which of the two images from the OP was the RAW and which was the JPG, she said because the JPG looks as though it has had a filter or color profile applied to it (which you can do on the p4p, and is obviously what the OP has done).

Heck do a google image search for raw photo files. They all look "natural". NONE of them look flat by any measure.

 

[CheongBentong]

Message noted.
Let's all carry on with our wonderful daily life.
Happy droning.
Thank you.