Pirker Case Development
- Thread starter SilentAV8R
- Start date
Interesting. So if I'm reading this right (legalese is ridiculous), this all boils down to the applicability of the laws due to Pirker's nationality? Sucks for the rest of us (since it doesn't call into question the enforcement on its face, just essentially whether the FAA has jurisdiction), but good for him, I guess.
WHat it shows is how absurd the FAA is. I cannot wait to see how they try to twist the law around now. It's funny, I had that question from Day One. He's not a US Citizen so how can our FARs apply??
You are subject to laws applicable in the jurisdiction you are breaking them in. Any other take on this would be silly. Something like getting arrested for smoking pot in California but having it dismissed because you are a resident of Colorado. I think this defense is meritless.
sdtrojan said:
You need to read the actual document. Aviation law has some interesting twists written into it.
I read it. What is says is that is the defense he is presenting. There is enough wiggle room in any law on the books to twist it the way the prosecuting authority wants to. He will never get away from this.
sdtrojan said:
The ALJ ruled that the FAA has 20 days to file a brief explaining why they did not follow their own procedure and refer this to the State Department for prosecution by his home country. When this first happened there were several people who brought this point up.
I understand that, and I am sure the FAA was aware of his citizenship status when they decided to pursue the case. They may have simply been using him as "an example" to let others know they will be bringing down the hammer, and perhaps they don't feel his home country can/will prosecute. But I will again play Devils advocate and ask the following:
1) how long had he lived in the US and is there a reasonable expectation he should have known the rules he is accused of violating?
2) if he did this as a commercial enterprise, was he properly sanctioned with business licenses etc to perform as a commercial entity? If so, did he have FAA approval???
I think that he will still be held accountable, just my opinion.
8 days until I get to unwrap my Phantom 2 and there is freaking rain in the forecast for the 25th in San Diego!
1) how long had he lived in the US and is there a reasonable expectation he should have known the rules he is accused of violating?
2) if he did this as a commercial enterprise, was he properly sanctioned with business licenses etc to perform as a commercial entity? If so, did he have FAA approval???
I think that he will still be held accountable, just my opinion.
8 days until I get to unwrap my Phantom 2 and there is freaking rain in the forecast for the 25th in San Diego!
Nothing in the FAA Rules cited by the ALJ contains any reference to residency length, duration, or similar, so that seems like a moot point. The FAA did not bring enforcement action based on a commercial flight. They did mention it among the 11 allegtions they made, but their violation is based on FAR 91.13 - Reckless or Careless Operation. The full NTSB Board ruled that Pirker's model met the definition of an "aircraft" for the purposes of enforcing that rule. 91.13 is the sole basis of the proposed fine.
The ALJ in the case issued the order yesterday without being asked to. He was the prime mover in its issuance. He seems very much disposed to want to be done with this case and it will be interesting to see what happens next. Basically the FAA has to convince him that there is cause to ignore the provision pertaining to foreign nationals in the FAA's own enforcement regulations.
It seems to me that the ALJ wants this to go away.
The ALJ in the case issued the order yesterday without being asked to. He was the prime mover in its issuance. He seems very much disposed to want to be done with this case and it will be interesting to see what happens next. Basically the FAA has to convince him that there is cause to ignore the provision pertaining to foreign nationals in the FAA's own enforcement regulations.
It seems to me that the ALJ wants this to go away.
ianwood
Taco Wrangler
So, if I understand this correctly...
- A small flying toy is a small flying toy. Except if someone pays you to fly it.
- If someone pays you to fly it, a small flying toy is an airplane. Except if you're a foreign national.
- If you're a foreign national, you can do as you please but the FAA may tell your parents.
I predict these will be the next rulings we'll get:
- US citizens are required to become fully certified astronauts before operating any small flying toy.
- On the third Tuesday of each month, non-astronauts may operate small flying toys if they yell out "All hail Michael Huerta" three times before each flight.
- A small flying toy is a small flying toy. Except if someone pays you to fly it.
- If someone pays you to fly it, a small flying toy is an airplane. Except if you're a foreign national.
- If you're a foreign national, you can do as you please but the FAA may tell your parents.
I predict these will be the next rulings we'll get:
- US citizens are required to become fully certified astronauts before operating any small flying toy.
- On the third Tuesday of each month, non-astronauts may operate small flying toys if they yell out "All hail Michael Huerta" three times before each flight.
ianwood said:
I read it 3 times already and each time i get a different message. One thats clear is they are making this up as they go and they are not really sure about the steps they themselves are taking.
N017RW
Premium Pilot
Here's a question. If the case is thrown out by the ALJ due to a lack of jurisdiction will the decision by the NTSB Board still stand? In other words, will their classification of models as aircraft for enforcement purposes still stand??
msinger
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If so, I'm assuming the FAA will need to pick up a few hundred more employees to start investigating all of the model aircraft crashes.SilentAV8R said:
I read one estimate that a quarter of a million NEW multicopters will be in the air after 12/25. Scary!sdtrojan said:
I know! I saw that too. I took the slow route, bought a small Husban to learn how to fly first, heard it just gets easier from there. I am planning on start slowly, methodically at first, simply getting the hang of flying first, then going to start wearing the goggle after I feel comfy.
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