Lost total control of the AC. What happened here?

[bsartist]

I was in IBM sales for about 15 years. So I am comfortable about being a bleeding edge user. One advantage of being an early user of software is that you can actually get connected to the development lab and create requests for a change or improvements.

I would like DJI to be more responsive to these requests, however. An example is using a time/date stamp appended to each file name so that files which are saved on your computer you don’t have the same name. This will happen if you reformat your chip which I do often to a sure full chip capacity when I fly.

Yes. In sales. That would explain it. Ha ha. JK. ;-)). Seriously, In my work as a “customer” for 30 years, we also worked with our vendors (primarily DEC and Microsoft but also many of the “dot com” companies like Netscape and Real etc.) to beta test new versions of operating systems and other software. In fact, being in pretty large financial companies, it gave us many opportunities to shape new versions as you point out. It was an exciting part of the job and got to know the engineers and developers quite well.

But that was done in separate labs we set up for that purpose. The other part of my job, however, was keeping the production systems running 24x7 and as glitch free as possible. Could not afford to be on the bleeding edge there. Not in a bank.

Being part of the beta process had the advantage of seeing “how the sausage was made” and also gave the vendors some more accountability.

But DJI ain’t no IBM. Or DEC for that matter. I doubt DJI shakes down their software nearly as much as they did. But if they gave me a second drone and I had a big field far away from people and property then I’d gladly be a beta customer. That would be my lab.

Regarding the sequential numbering problem you mentioned, in the grand scheme of things, that’s not a huge issue. I’d rather they spend more time regression testing (and having beta customers) so they don’t introduce bugs like the home point one. Or the vibration one.

Having said that, not sure which drone(s) you fly but the feature you want is already there on my P4P. There is a setting called continuous numbering or somesuch. Check it out and see if you have it and if it gets you what you want.

Happy VLOS flying. ;-)

Edit: oh I see we are in the P4P help forum. So you should have the setting.

 

[Russ43Phantom]

I did see the continuous numbering. It showed up soon after I made the request to derive some system so that images/video made on the Phantom don't have the same name. I believe they decided to keep the numbering system stored in the drone memory rather than on the chip which, when reformatted, would always start with the number 1 in the file name. I felt it was a very simple, but to photographers very important, upgrade.

As you said, DJI is not an IBM or a DEC. I wouldn't mind if their connection with Apple got even stronger so that the software testing and customer service culture moved to a higher level.

 

[bsartist]

I did see the continuous numbering. It showed up soon after I made the request to derive some system so that images/video made on the Phantom don't have the same name.

Oh I guess I misunderstood your post. I thought you were pointing out lack of such a feature as an example of them not being as responsive as you’d like.

 

[Skynet1]

Sorry for the delay - but I pretty much didn't touch the drone until today.
Aircraft: 01.05.0600
Remote: 01.04.01.00
App (iOS): 4.2.12

Also, I uploaded my flight log to airdata, which I haven't used in a while. It looks like the troubled flight got divided into two logs. In the first flight I took off with a full battery and was getting ready to land around at around 30%. The drone was 65 ft away from me when I received the Command Timeout warning. The log then shut down after a memory loss at 20% battery and then a second log started from the time the drone was not responsive until it auto-landed, luckily on a roof nearby that I could access. Uploaded to screenshots here.

I am probably going to take it for a quick flight soon. I'll recalibrate the IMU and compass. I can say that I was standing behind the village power lines while maintaining eye contact with the drone, when I was moving to land it I walked below the power lines to the street, it could be that I was moving in an area with higher reception area compared to where I usually fly in that area.

Cheers!
View attachment 98010 View attachment 98011

 

[Skynet1]

Hello,
POI, as it relates to the issue you had initially reported regarding a loss of control of your P4P.
It has been suggested, and I concur, you may best opt to re-flash your present A/C f/w version to preclude this issue from possibly occurring once again.
" An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".
To maximize success in your efforts, first format the A/C SD card, then follow the normal procedures to update the versions of f/w in both model and radio controller as you had previously. Afterward, you may want to perform all necessary calibrations suggested, particularly after performing various updates. eg. IMU, Compass, Camera Gimbal, & Radio Controller calibrations, as necessary.
Hopefully, by taking these precautionary steps you may then prevent any future issues similar to what you had experienced.

All the best,

 

[Russ43Phantom]

Oh I guess I misunderstood your post. I thought you were pointing out lack of such a feature as an example of them not being as responsive as you’d like.

As it turns out, the "continuous" numbering does not really work. It's OK if you only have one drone. If you add a time/date to the file name, you cover drone owners or companies who have multiple drones. For a photographer, overwriting a previous file with the same name is much more damaging that a fly-away or other drone failure that can be remedied by purchasing a new drone. Imagine if the file that was overwritten was of a wedding, or a sunset/cloud combination that will never happen again. So ... adding a fix to this issue is a VERY BIG DEAL as many use drones for photography.

 

[bsartist]

As it turns out, the "continuous" numbering does not really work. It's OK if you only have one drone. If you add a time/date to the file name, you cover drone owners or companies who have multiple drones. For a photographer, overwriting a previous file with the same name is much more damaging that a fly-away or other drone failure that can be remedied by purchasing a new drone. Imagine if the file that was overwritten was of a wedding, or a sunset/cloud combination that will never happen again. So ... adding a fix to this issue is a VERY BIG DEAL as many use drones for photography.

Unless I’m missing something (which is always possible ) I don’t agree that this is a very big deal. Here’s why:

If you are concerned about swapping cards from one drone to another and getting a file overwritten, I think most serious photographers don’t do that or if they do they reformat before every use.

If you are concerned about overwriting when downloading to your computer, most operating systems I think warn you if a file of the same name exists. This is easily remedied by having a folder for each drone for example and don’t move cards between them.

I am principally a photographer and use my drone for photography. Although I don’t use both actively. My old P3S is in the closet at the moment.

I have been shooting still photography with advanced canon bodies since 2005 (Medium format film before that). Many serious professionals use them. They use the same continuous numbering algorithm. I would think if this was a very big deal then Canon would have remedied it by now with date time stamps in their file names.

But if you are going to insist on having DJI do it, may as well ask them to encode the name of the aircraft in the filename too.

 

[Russ43Phantom]

Unless I’m missing something (which is always possible ) I don’t agree that this is a very big deal. Here’s why:

If you are concerned about swapping cards from one drone to another and getting a file overwritten, I think most serious photographers don’t do that or if they do they reformat before every use.

If you are concerned about overwriting when downloading to your computer, most operating systems I think warn you if a file of the same name exists. This is easily remedied by having a folder for each drone for example and don’t move cards between them.

I am principally a photographer and use my drone for photography. Although I don’t use both actively. My old P3S is in the closet at the moment.

I have been shooting still photography with advanced canon bodies since 2005 (Medium format film before that). Many serious professionals use them. They use the same continuous numbering algorithm. I would think if this was a very big deal then Canon would have remedied it by now with date time stamps in their file names.

But if you are going to insist on having DJI do it, may as well ask them to encode the name of the aircraft in the filename too.

I wouldn't swap cards, in fact, I have many cards for each drone. I do read the cards into my computer where I don't want similar numbered files to exist. I immediately import all files into Lightroom, which by the way, appends a time date stamp to each file. This works for both may Nikon images/video and my drone images/video. IN my opinion, Lightroom provides better indexing and access to files than using folders.

Then, I have a DROBO raid system (40TB system) that creates multiple copies of the files so that any 2 or 5 drives can crash simultaneously and the DROBO system can still recover. Then when my files are backed up, I reformat my drone chips. Maybe it's like having suspenders and a belt, I also keep a copy of the Lightroom directory and files in a cloud.

My concern is that many photographers who have less experience than you and me will have issues with duplicate file names. And then there is Murphy's Law which would suggest that you and I use strict procedures to avoid issues with duplicate files ... except maybe once. That would, according to Murphy, only happen when we finished one of our most important assignments.

So ... DJI, please both time stamp and add the drone's serial number to the file names. It matters.

 

[bsartist]

I wouldn't swap cards, in fact, I have many cards for each drone. I do read the cards into my computer where I don't want similar numbered files to exist. I immediately import all files into Lightroom, which by the way, appends a time date stamp to each file. This works for both may Nikon images/video and my drone images/video. IN my opinion, Lightroom provides better indexing and access to files than using folders.

Then, I have a DROBO raid system (40TB system) that creates multiple copies of the files so that any 2 or 5 drives can crash simultaneously and the DROBO system can still recover. Then when my files are backed up, I reformat my drone chips. Maybe it's like having suspenders and a belt, I also keep a copy of the Lightroom directory and files in a cloud.

My concern is that many photographers who have less experience than you and me will have issues with duplicate file names. And then there is Murphy's Law which would suggest that you and I use strict procedures to avoid issues with duplicate files ... except maybe once. That would, according to Murphy, only happen when we finished one of our most important assignments.

So ... DJI, please both time stamp and add the drone's serial number to the file names. It matters.

Actually, here is what REALLY matters more than filenames: DJI please stop freezing the video for half a dozen frames or so when opening a new file after reaching the 4GB limit. It ruins some shots that I can’t get back.

 

[Russ43Phantom]

Actually, here is what REALLY matters more than filenames: DJI please stop freezing the video for half a dozen frames or so when opening a new file after reaching the 4GB limit. It ruins some shots that I can’t get back.

Sounds like we can keep DJI busy.

 

[bsartist]

I wouldn't swap cards, in fact, I have many cards for each drone. I do read the cards into my computer where I don't want similar numbered files to exist. I immediately import all files into Lightroom, which by the way, appends a time date stamp to each file. This works for both may Nikon images/video and my drone images/video. IN my opinion, Lightroom provides better indexing and access to files than using folders.

Then, I have a DROBO raid system (40TB system) that creates multiple copies of the files so that any 2 or 5 drives can crash simultaneously and the DROBO system can still recover. Then when my files are backed up, I reformat my drone chips. Maybe it's like having suspenders and a belt, I also keep a copy of the Lightroom directory and files in a cloud.

My concern is that many photographers who have less experience than you and me will have issues with duplicate file names. And then there is Murphy's Law which would suggest that you and I use strict procedures to avoid issues with duplicate files ... except maybe once. That would, according to Murphy, only happen when we finished one of our most important assignments.

So ... DJI, please both time stamp and add the drone's serial number to the file names. It matters.

This may be your personal pet peeve. If someone is sophisticated enough to be shooting with more than one drone, then they can figure out how to avoid overwriting files that may have the same name from two different drones. I’d rather see them focus on things that affect the drone and video performance such as the freeze frames I mentioned. Here is another one: many more people complain about D-Log being locked at ISO 500 - even for stills - than I’ve heard complain about needing timestamps in filenames. Just my observation from what I’ve been reading here.

 

[bsartist]

Sounds like we can keep DJI busy.

Exactly why we need to choose our battles carefully.

 

[paulmorel]

From on top of my case on top of a flat concrete bench. Someone will ask if it had rebar in it LOL. This isn’t a compass issue obviously. Not only did I receive no errors, the aircraft flew perfectly out 3 Miles. And, in fact flew itself back perfectly right to within a couple feet of the landing spot. Then held station perfectly in a breeze while the battery died down. It just either simply wouldn’t respond to ANY commands or the RC wasn’t sending them. I even tried switching it to ATTI and sport mode while it hovered. No response. And, in fact, the log doesn’t even show a switch to those modes.

exactly. the compass was way irrelevant in this situation

 

[Harleydude]

I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment of this being a default response. I suspect they didn’t tell him to update the firmware only because he’s running the latest.

In my case, no way in H E double hockey sticks it was interference. I flew 3 miles out and was on the way back at pretty close to the max distance when the problem started - and continued all the way back and was persistent as I stared up at it 10+ ft above my head.

I’ll let you know my firmware when I get a chance to fire up the bird. But this may tell you all you need to know:

The RC must be the latest. I don’t think I get any warnings to update that.

I deliberately downgraded the AC to the version that “everyone likes.” I think it’s the .509 version. It’s the last one you can modify parameters such as RTH speed and such.

Edit: I researched. It must be V01.03.0509.

GO4 is the latest. But unrelated. Because this is a problem between the RC anc AC. So it could be RC firmware. I don’t know the version but I’ve not upgraded it recently (or at all. I bought it a couple months ago). And I don’t think it’s asking me to upgrade.

Besides, they didn’t tell you “oh that’s a bug in the x.y.z version of the RC firmware.” It tells me what I suspect. They haven’t heard of this or don’t know the answer.

Another edit: I just flew it again. No distance. Just a close in flight. No problems.

I've been using FW v1.3.509 since day one and, other than props breaking mid flight, haven't had a lick of trouble. I also use a legacy version of the Go 4 app; v4.0.8. These are the versions I would recommend to avoid ever having "Command timeout" issues ever again.

D

 

[Harleydude]

[QUOTE="bsartist, post: 1350357,

Another edit: I just flew it again. No distance. Just a close in flight. No problems.

One last thing I'd like to mention, and one which you probably are well aware of,
As a general rule, if you are one who use other flight apps from time to time eg. litchi etc. it's always best to ensure they are not running in the background on your device, as they may cause interference with overall flight operations. Turning on Airplane mode on your device can be helpful as well with preventing interference.

All the best![/QUOTE]

Agree whole-heartedly. I find these apps do NOT share resource well.

 

[bsartist]

One last thing I'd like to mention, and one which you probably are well aware of,
As a general rule, if you are one who use other flight apps from time to time eg. litchi etc. it's always best to ensure they are not running in the background on your device, as they may cause interference with overall flight operations. Turning on Airplane mode on your device can be helpful as well with preventing interference.

All the best!

Agree whole-heartedly. I find these apps do NOT share resource well.

I never run the apps together.

I don’t think this had anything to do with my iPhone or the app(s) running on it. This was a problem between the RC and AC. I couldn’t cancel RTH with the RC nor even switch modes to ATTI or sport. But restarting controller didn’t fix it either. Even after restart of the RC I did get downlink back but still couldn’t control the AC. So I think the AC got into a weird state of not processing anything sent to it.

 

[Harleydude]

I never run the apps together.

I don’t think this had anything to do with my iPhone or the app(s) running on it. This was a problem between the RC and AC. I couldn’t cancel RTH with the RC nor even switch modes to ATTI or sport. But restarting controller didn’t fix it either. Even after restart of the RC I did get downlink back but still couldn’t control the AC. So I think the AC got into a weird state of not processing anything sent to it.

Copy that. When I say "share resource," that's more about telemetry and video data. Ultimately, "control" is governed by the RC. As I'm sure you're well aware, one doesn't actually need a smart phone or iPad to fly the drone. In my humble opinion, the app can only do so much damage. Ultimately, you should be able to unplug the iPad if you want to fly "blind" like we did in the old days. What I like about my Inspire 1 is that I can plug goggles directly into the RC so that I don't need the iPad at all. It's "old school" FPV style flying at its best. But I digress.

Next time that happens, I would try unplugging the smart device from the RC. If that fails, I would then reboot the RC. THAT should fix any "command" issues. That's only a theory, of course.

D

 

[bsartist]

Copy that. When I say "share resource," that's more about telemetry and video data. Ultimately, "control" is governed by the RC. As I'm sure you're well aware, one doesn't actually need a smart phone or iPad to fly the drone. In my humble opinion, the app can only do so much damage. Ultimately, you should be able to unplug the iPad if you want to fly "blind" like we did in the old days. What I like about my Inspire 1 is that I can plug goggles directly into the RC so that I don't need the iPad at all. It's "old school" FPV style flying at its best. But I digress.

Next time that happens, I would try unplugging the smart device from the RC. If that fails, I would then reboot the RC. THAT should fix any "command" issues. That's only a theory, of course.

D

As per my original post and my last one, I did reboot the RC. As I said, downlink came back OK. But not uplink. So my guess is the AC got into a pathological state since he was the only thing that I could not reboot as it hovered out of reach refusing to land (due to the safe landing protection) till the battery ran all the way down.

I do not think I disconnected the iPhone. So if this does happen again I will try that. But I’m not optimistic. ;-)

 

[Harleydude]

As per my original post and my last one, I did reboot the RC.

Yes, I read that. What I meant is disconnect the smart device FIRST. If that doesn't work, THEN reboot the RC. Rebooting the RC with the smart device plugged in may be what is causing problems. It's worth a try.

As I said, downlink came back OK. But not uplink. So my guess is the AC got into a pathological state since he was the only thing that I could not reboot as it hovered out of reach refusing to land (due to the safe landing protection) till the battery ran all the way down.

My theory as that you can break that pathology by disconnecting the smart device. It's worth a shot. I'd say there's a 50/50 chance that will work.

I do not think I disconnected the iPhone. So if this does happen again I will try that. But I’m not optimistic. ;-)

I AM optimistic...<;^)

 

[bsartist]

Yes, I read that. What I meant is disconnect the smart device FIRST. If that doesn't work, THEN reboot the RC. Rebooting the RC with the smart device plugged in may be what is causing problems. It's worth a try.




My theory as that you can break that pathology by disconnecting the smart device. It's worth a shot. I'd say there's a 50/50 chance that will work.





I AM optimistic...<;^)

I’m hopeful that I’ll never get a chance to test it again. ;-)