LONG, detailed review of extended range options

I'm thinking of getting the dbs antennae mod by sending my p3 advance with the hdmi module in for modification. Can I pair the p3 advance controller to the p4 without having to update remote controller firmware and can I use the same modded dbs controller to pair to either the p3 and p4 without a problem?

The short answer is that the P3P & A and P4 RCs, are totally compatable (interchangeable).

I actually verified this by pairing my RC from my P3P (a B model), with my P4, which has a C model RC. I haven't taken both my P3 and P4 out to the wide open beach, but like others, I've noticed a distinct drop off in range in the P4, as well as consistency. The signal will be there, weaken, come back... While the P3P plugs onward. I had read that the C version of the RC is down 20% in output power from B version. Since I heard the remotes were interchangeable, I figured I'd try a B model RC from my P3P on my P4.

It took 10 minutes to re-read the "linking" (not "binding" LOL) procedure and do it. It also prompted me to do an RC update, and I did that too. NPs!

In a test direction I'll commonly fly because of winds, it's a rural/urban collage LOL. If I climb higher than I normally would (naughty high), until I think I have unobstructed LOS tothe bird, I've found about a 1/3 drop in the P4's range. With more signal variability, and antenna position adjustments required to get that.

To make a long story short, with my P3P B model RC paired to the P4, it appears I got the range back. I went 2 miles, while I think my P4 with its C RC would only be good for 7500'. But I haven't done nearly enough back to back tests to draw firm conclusions. At first blush, I appeared to get more range from binding a compatable RC from a P3P (A B Model) to a P4 (Which was using a C Model).

And the RCs seemed to be super easy to bind to the different craft. No problems there at all.

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PLEASE READ!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't fully understand the total Long Range upgrade nor the components used but I hope to hear from some experts. Bear with me and I'll get to my question, lol. I have a Phanton 3 Pro and have lots of miles on it. The day I ordered it, I also ordered this $20 windsurfer as well.
7f1ad1d26ec52c670532a2153273ca77.jpg

I've tested with and without the windsurfer and the results are obvious. I had no idea it would increase my range that much. I can pretty much out fly the battery. In downtown Oklahoma City, I've went 16,000 ft. On the outskirts, I hit my record high 21,000ft. I got lucky and landed with 15% battery. I'm so happy I bought it! A friend bought one on Amazon but it's a copper color, and it isn't as good. My question is-I almost purchased a crazy expensive range extender from www.droneworld.com. They claim for a $599 upgrade, you can go over 5 miles. By the looks, Drone World is a reputable UAV seller, so I'm wondering if this is a ripoff or at least why so darn expensive?
fd67694d71afb3e842399d126c52428a.jpg

I'm wanting to know because I'm thinking about purchasing the Phantom 4. The guy that started this Topic tested the windsurfer on the P4 and range was not satisfying to me either. Will you guys look at the picture links I've attached and see if you know of this product and if it's legitimate? The Drone World P4 LR upgrade is even higher than the P3P version, at a ridiculous price $999! It would be pointless to buy for the P3P because I would think your battery would run out at that distance unless modified. I'd kill my self if I bought it with a new P4 and had more success with a windsurfer! Lol! Hope to hear some replies! Thanks


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It's being done all the time, I haven't used my P4 remote yet.
Sim597, ate you getting more range with the P3 RCs vs the P4's?
 
It seems to me that 4800-5000 rpm's is the sweet spot in sport mode . That yields a horizontal speed of 20-24 Mph. Depending on the wind of course that can be a lot faster. The p4 is definitely more efficient at slower speeds. What is everyone else experiencing.
This is a GREAT question, and some good information. Mileage, in miles per mW-h, LOL, is going to be a function of speed, and the question is: How non-linear is it, and what speed does the milage peak at. Hovering (0 mph) is going to get you rotten milage! LOL Although not zero because they'll be some wind. More on that later.

Just like in a car, my gut told me that maxed out probably wasn't the most efficient speed. So about 24 doesn't surprise me. I was thinking of some experiments using the return to home power calculator, and observing it's behavior at different rpm/speed settings.

LOL Hear is a highly significant can of worms to add to this research: Wind effects. I think the best speed to fly for maximum battery range will be higher going into the wind, and lower with a tail-wind. Let's say 24 mph is the max milage speed. Into a 25 mph headwind, the mileage becomes negative, so my theory is obvious. It doesn't mean that the full 45 mph top speed is best, it's probably somewhere in between. But with a 44 mph headwind, 45 mph is going to be the speed to fly.

In tailwinds, you might be better off slower than 24 mph, if there is a max loitering time speed. I think because of tranlational lift, max time aloft is not a hover.

What got me thinking of this is glider flying experience. They'll be two speeds you should know: Vm, which is the best glide speed, and Vms, which is the speed which gives you the slowest rate of decent. In knots, these values are usually around Vm = 55 kts and Vms = 45 kts.

The rule of thumb for "speed to fly" to get the best EFFECTIVE (wind adjusted) glide ratio speed, is to fly at Vm + 1/2 of the headwind speed. So if there was a 26 kt headwind, you'd fly at 55 + 13 = 68 kts. One can see this is a rule of thumb and non-linear by noticing that once the head wind speed exceeds the (Vm + 1/2 windspeed "speed to fly"), to make any headway you now have to fly faster than the head wind speed!

With tailwinds, speed to fly becomes Vm - (1/2 tail wind speed), but no slower than the glider's min sink speed Vms, which makes sense. With a gail at your back, you just float there and let the wind do some extra work.

Everyone knows how beneficial it is to fly out against the wind, and fly back with it. This great question about what is the best "mileage" speed, is probably going to be influenced a lot by winds, because in a UAV they can be such a high % of your airspeed. ANYWAY, TAKING THE BEST MILEAGE SPEED, GOING FASTER WHEN BUCKING A HEADWIND, AND SLOWER WHEN PUSHED BY A TAILWIND WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
 
PLEASE READ!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't fully understand the total Long Range upgrade nor the components used but I hope to hear from some experts. Bear with me and I'll get to my question, lol. I have a Phanton 3 Pro and have lots of miles on it. The day I ordered it, I also ordered this $20 windsurfer as well.
7f1ad1d26ec52c670532a2153273ca77.jpg

I've tested with and without the windsurfer and the results are obvious. I had no idea it would increase my range that much. I can pretty much out fly the battery. In downtown Oklahoma City, I've went 16,000 ft. On the outskirts, I hit my record high 21,000ft. I got lucky and landed with 15% battery. I'm so happy I bought it! A friend bought one on Amazon but it's a copper color, and it isn't as good. My question is-I almost purchased a crazy expensive range extender from www.droneworld.com. They claim for a $599 upgrade, you can go over 5 miles. By the looks, Drone World is a reputable UAV seller, so I'm wondering if this is a ripoff or at least why so darn expensive?
fd67694d71afb3e842399d126c52428a.jpg

I'm wanting to know because I'm thinking about purchasing the Phantom 4. The guy that started this Topic tested the windsurfer on the P4 and range was not satisfying to me either. Will you guys look at the picture links I've attached and see if you know of this product and if it's legitimate? The Drone World P4 LR upgrade is even higher than the P3P version, at a ridiculous price $999! It would be pointless to buy for the P3P because I would think your battery would run out at that distance unless modified. I'd kill my self if I bought it with a new P4 and had more success with a windsurfer! Lol! Hope to hear some replies! Thanks


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PLEASE READ!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't fully understand the total Long Range upgrade nor the components used but I hope to hear from some experts. Bear with me and I'll get to my question, lol. I have a Phanton 3 Pro and have lots of miles on it. The day I ordered it, I also ordered this $20 windsurfer as well.
7f1ad1d26ec52c670532a2153273ca77.jpg

I've tested with and without the windsurfer and the results are obvious. I had no idea it would increase my range that much. I can pretty much out fly the battery. In downtown Oklahoma City, I've went 16,000 ft. On the outskirts, I hit my record high 21,000ft. I got lucky and landed with 15% battery. I'm so happy I bought it! A friend bought one on Amazon but it's a copper color, and it isn't as good. My question is-I almost purchased a crazy expensive range extender from www.droneworld.com. They claim for a $599 upgrade, you can go over 5 miles. By the looks, Drone World is a reputable UAV seller, so I'm wondering if this is a ripoff or at least why so darn expensive?
fd67694d71afb3e842399d126c52428a.jpg

I'm wanting to know because I'm thinking about purchasing the Phantom 4. The guy that started this Topic tested the windsurfer on the P4 and range was not satisfying to me either. Will you guys look at the picture links I've attached and see if you know of this product and if it's legitimate? The Drone World P4 LR upgrade is even higher than the P3P version, at a ridiculous price $999! It would be pointless to buy for the P3P because I would think your battery would run out at that distance unless modified. I'd kill my self if I bought it with a new P4 and had more success with a windsurfer! Lol! Hope to hear some replies! Thanks

This is one of the iLite DBS units with amplifier boosters (it says 6 Watts in the front). Reputable but an expensive source

Look at the post that starts this thread, and he.loves the Antenna portion of this unit, but bought them from sometime that's welll known (better service and cheaper). He suggests waiting on adding booster amps. Expense is one reason.

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It looks to me like drone world is only selling the DBS itelite antenna and jacking the price up. It says it has internal boosters and no battery . That doesn't sound possible to me. They have a lot of bad reviews too. I'd love to see the inside of that antenna and compare it to the DBS panel .


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I came across your post this evening and started reading it with great hesitation since, I ordered a range extender 2 days ago after doing some of my own basic research. As I reached your conclusion; I was happy since, I had ordered the EvoLite Kit Plus with the Clean Install kit which I am anxiously waiting for,

The point of my post is to thank you for your detailed reviews but primarily to say that, I had the same experience with Jake who answered my numerous emails with patience and details. I could not agree more or say it better than you about Jake.

Thank you...

"His straightforward nature impressed me. He was honest, fair, very responsive. I went through his site many times. He clearly was talented and could create a good setup, good design. He stood out from the rest because he was matter of fact and just came across as honest. I can't quite describe it in words, but I am usually a pretty good judge of character, and here was a guy who simply wants to add to the enjoyment of the hobby and help others out. A mensch."
 
I came across your post this evening and started reading it with great hesitation since, I ordered a range extender 2 days ago after doing some of my own basic research. As I reached your conclusion; I was happy since, I had ordered the EvoLite Kit Plus with the Clean Install kit which I am anxiously waiting for,

The point of my post is to thank you for your detailed reviews but primarily to say that, I had the same experience with Jake who answered my numerous emails with patience and details. I could not agree more or say it better than you about Jake.

Thank you...

"His straightforward nature impressed me. He was honest, fair, very responsive. I went through his site many times. He clearly was talented and could create a good setup, good design. He stood out from the rest because he was matter of fact and just came across as honest. I can't quite describe it in words, but I am usually a pretty good judge of character, and here was a guy who simply wants to add to the enjoyment of the hobby and help others out. A mensch."
Are you perhaps also suggesting that Tony and Will are lacking in patience and bedside manner??? ;)
 
Are you perhaps also suggesting that Tony and Will are lacking in patience and bedside manner??? ;)
I love a mensch and even though I'm not starving for range I would get one if I could figure out how to sift through the mountains and mountains of info on them all.

It's got to the point where I don't even know what's what anymore.

Please answer this question and don't answer if a) you have one to sell or b) you "manufacture" one.

I would really like answers only from notable members. I know I'm being a little beotch but hey, that's what I'm here for. ;)

Thanks guys.

By the way, I'd much rather get a 1.5 boost than another 4 miles by putting a George Jetson car on my tx.
 
I love a mensch and even though I'm not starving for range I would get one if I could figure out how to sift through the mountains and mountains of info on them all.

It's got to the point where I don't even know what's what anymore.

Please answer this question and don't answer if a) you have one to sell or b) you "manufacture" one.

I would really like answers only from notable members. I know I'm being a little beotch but hey, that's what I'm here for. ;)

Thanks guys.

By the way, I'd much rather get a 1.5 boost than another 4 miles by putting a George Jetson car on my tx.
The original, smaller, DBS-02 with boosters is small and compact and fits the bill, and is easily removable for transport or replacement with cheap omnis for close range flying. I'm currently using the DBS-02 with boosters on my P4, with control out to 6 miles, and very stable performance, low to the ground, in the 4-5 mile range, where I do most of my flying. Highly recommended, unless you have George Jetson capability needs.
 
Someone needs to offer a clean power kit, to tap into the RC battery and put a jack on the top of the RC. A twin leaded power cable could plug into that jack which could power the two amps, when you feel the need for max range. This would alleviate the weight and charging of the extra battery.

Hey Jake!
 
Last edited:
The original, smaller, DBS-02 with boosters is small and compact and fits the bill, and is easily removable for transport or replacement with cheap omnis for close range flying. I'm currently using the DBS-02 with boosters on my P4, with control out to 6 miles, and very stable performance, low to the ground, in the 4-5 mile range, where I do most of my flying. Highly recommended, unless you have George Jetson capability needs.
Thanks for the advice and the laugh! hahaha
 
Someone needs to offer a clean power kit, to tap into the RC battery and put a jack on the top of the RC. A twin leaded power cable could plug into that jack which could power the two amps, when you feel the need for max range. This would alleviate the weight and charging of the extra battery.

Hey Jake!
While they are in there, with the case already cracked open, might as well create a battery mod as you suggest! Great idea!
 
Someone needs to offer a clean power kit, to tap into the RC battery and put a jack on the top of the RC. A twin leaded power cable could plug into that jack which could power the two amps, when you feel the need for max range. This would alleviate the weight and charging of the extra battery.

Hey Jake!
One of my customers actually did this. I thought he posted the mod on here somewhere, let me see if I can find it.
 
I love a mensch and even though I'm not starving for range I would get one if I could figure out how to sift through the mountains and mountains of info on them all.

It's got to the point where I don't even know what's what anymore.

Please answer this question and don't answer if a) you have one to sell or b) you "manufacture" one.

I would really like answers only from notable members. I know I'm being a little beotch but hey, that's what I'm here for. ;)

Thanks guys.

By the way, I'd much rather get a 1.5 boost than another 4 miles by putting a George Jetson car on my tx.

I just built one myself that you can buy from me!
 
Hello everyone. I have completed extensive tests on various extended range modifications and I am here to give you the background, results, and experiences that I believe have been missing for some time. Beware that this is lengthy, but I want to share everything. I have developed explanations for my results- which is helpful because mod results are dependent on environment. Needless to say I know how to point antennas and I know the settings to promote range in DJI GO.

Here is my story:

I live in an urban area- not suburban. I am around loads of interference, and I am in the middle of a fairly large United States East Coast City, with a harbor. I do my flying in an urban environment. I originally had a P3Advanced, then a Professional. I was fortunate enough to have the ITElite remote from the start. I never flew either one of them stock. I was very satisfied with the ranges and penetrations I got. I was easily able to go 2-2.5 miles with no issues in this environment. When flying outside of town in other environments, the range was only limited by battery life. I always read about FPVLR, other modifications, etc, but I was happy with what I had.

Enter the P4:
I enthusiastically sold my entire P3 setup and snapped up a P4 as soon as it came out. I flew it, and was happy with its craftsmanship, etc- but on range, I was crushed. I couldn't go more than a couple thousand feet without weak and ultimately lost signal. I was disappointed, upset, and frankly pissed. Yes, DJI claimed the range was the same, but any evidence of decent range I could find were people flying over the ocean, lakes, or desert! What about a city-dweller like me? Surely not every person is going to drive an hour to fly their drone! So I immersed myself in the world of range mods, wanting to know every option, every explanation, every detail about what I could do to resurrect my P4 and resume my happiness that I had before. I am a physicist by profession, and I figured I would apply my sense of experimentation to meet the needs of MY environment. I watched videos of 9 mile flights. I spent hours reading explanations, arguments, claims, and animations. I studied RF behavior, signal strength implications, antenna design. I wanted something clean, yet effective. I decided to do what it would take. My journey was beginning. I started with Freddy:
FDR Drone Mods:
I began speaking with Freddy Del Rosario who runs FDR Drone Mods. I was intrigued by his promotional video for a product (not yet released) called the "Titan". We spent time discussing on the phone what he wanted in a setup. Something clean, not inconvenient, bulky. Something effective. What I so desperately sought. This guy knew my taste! Freddy was a very nice guy, and he took the time to talk. As time dragged on, I began to realize that he wasn't as developed in his plans for the "Titan" as was desired. Although it wasn't a pipe dream, it was still a ways off. But, Freddy offered a modification that he promoted well. It was the standard SMA modification through the original holes- well crafted, and using what he claimed was an incredibly shielded cable. With his 7 and 9dbi antennas, he claimed he could surpass itELITE range. He showed me many, many tests that he did. I wondered how any omni setup would surpass a very directional antenna, but somehow he did! And I believed him. In the back of my mind, I was aware that all his tests were in an environment far more flat, suburban, and with less interference. But nonetheless, I hurriedly shipped him my P4 remote.
As promised, he did his mod. The SMA connectors looked good, OEM. And I purchased some 7 and 9 dbi antennas that he recommended for long range. A week later I was able to fly:
Disappointment. It flew better than stock, but only a little. I was able to go maybe 3500-4000 ft, sometimes 5000ft before the weak signal and return to home. A small improvement, but nowhere near what I was hoping. I was really bummed. I don't dispute Freddy's results, but they just didn't work in my environment. Now I had to go all out----the other way. Screw it- I would buy the mod that people claimed got them miles and miles and miles of flight. The bulky time bomb, the Frankenstein itself- the amped FPVLR!

FPVLR/Tony:
I figured, "hey- who cares if it is ugly. If it blasts through everything with these amps, I will be one happy camper!" So I began talking with Tony. He explained his ideas of circular polarization versus linear polarization, his design, etc. (I will get into this in a bit) He spoke quite a bit. Tony is a nice guy and he seemed reasonable. Hell, people swore by his product!! So this was going to be my savior of the P4! I purchased the big kahuna itself- and my FPVLR arrived!

I excitedly installed it. I really tried to look past how cumbersome it was, the Velcro patches to add, the extra weight and all the cabling. The battery pack to charge, etc. I realized that it is VERY difficult to remove the cable from the RC USB port once it is set up. If there is a firmware update, it was going to be not very ergonomical, but if this was the sacrifice, so be it. Off to the races I went!
Uggghhhh!!!!!!!

Yes, there was improvement. Yes I noticed a larger improvement than prior. But I was still only getting 5500-6000 feet in this extremely congested environment. I cursed!!! Alas, my dreams were back to just that. Back to the drawing board. This time, simple and cheap:

Windsurfer:
Threw on this, got about 4000 ft. Similar to Freddy's setup. Blah. Needed more. Wanted more.

Argtek:
Then I purchased the "Blue Proton/Argtek" flat panel patch antennas. I was intrigued. I came across them on Amazon. They looked interesting. Could this be my salvation? If so, they would be easy, simple, what I wanted!! Around 4500ft. Great bang for the buck, but not that much of a bang.

Full Circle:
Sigh. At this point, I figured what the hell!!! Let's go back to what worked months ago! I came across Jake's site posted on PhantomPilots and ordered the ITelite (unboosted) from him. Prior to ordering, we spoke on the phone. I told him what I was doing, where I was, my experiences, etc. I was taken aback by him. He didn't promise ranges- he said they are environmentally dependent. His straightforward nature impressed me. He was honest, fair, very responsive. I went through his site many times. He clearly was talented and could create a good setup, good design. He stood out from the rest because he was matter of fact and just came across as honest. I can't quite describe it in words, but I am usually a pretty good judge of character, and here was a guy who simply wants to add to the enjoyment of the hobby and help others out. A mensch. I ordered the tried and true (in my case) itElite.

Boy did I put it through its paces. And boy did it deliver. In my environment, I was back exactly where I was with my P3. I was so excited that I got my bird back that I called Jake and told him how happy I was!!!! I was back to getting 12000ft and over the most dense and interference-congested areas, 7000-8000ft no problem. NONE of the other setups gave that to me. I couldn't believe it. And I had the added benefit of finding someone who is a great asset to this hobby. Jake will always be my go to person in the future, and subsequent to my tests I have noticed many, many others openly praising their dealings with him, which further validates my impression of him. I'll always give someone like that my business.

I actually sent the FPVLR to Jake and said- take this! I don't want it! It's yours. Experiment on it if you want.

Explanation/some more technical speak:
Here's the thing: the ItElite antenna basically has a 180 degree field. It is flat and directional. The high gain puts its signal straight forward, like a wall bulging out.
FPVLR is more"conical". A bit more directional.
This tells me that if I were in a totally empty environment, like where people post 9 mile FPVLR flights, sure, high range is possible. But in an urban environment where even boosted signal can bounce, be attenuated by structures, be redirected, etc, it's increased directionality and ability to be distorted supersedes the benefits of the reduced interference between the circularly polarized antennas. In THIS environment, a linearly polarized 180 degree flat panel works best.
Anything omnidirectional like Freddy's won't go as far because signal is being broadcast behind you- now a higher gain means signal might go farther, but the "donut" shape of the signal is narrowed- envision a washer. Outside of the washer, you're out of luck. And I actually WANT directionality. How many people actually fly while facing the opposite direction of their drone? I would rather have all my signal pumped forward as I am always facing in the general direction of where I am flying.

Now as I said, I am extremely happy with my setup. I went full circle. I will probably get Jake's amped setup in a few weeks, out of curiosity. I suspect it will boost the range even further, although I'm at a point where I don't really need it. But the evidence shows in an urban environment, this would probably give the most effective result. Remember that with boosted signal comes boosted noise, so it isn't a simple benefit of a proportional rise in strength=proportionate increase in distance, etc, but I suspect added benefit.

I had/have no "dog in the fight" other than that I wanted to get the ranges and capabilities that I had prior. I wanted to share all of this with you so you know my experiences, my environment, and what I did.

Last note of caution:
There is a company out there, "Drone World" that claims a "extended range modification" which they sell at $499. I have confirmed through multiple sources and independent verification that they are simply selling the ItElite modification at a more than 300% markup. It is not "their" modification. They just are taking advantage of newbies, which is unconscionable. It isn't any different a modification to the ItElite.

There you have it! I probably could have gone on in even more detail and even longer, but I want this out there so people can refer to this when they are deciding what to do, especially if you are in a real-world environment, as opposed to looking to score points by showing a long flight in the middle of nowhere.
All the Best,
David

Great thread!
a very big question which i am shocked not to have heard yet. with the dbs you installed was it the 9dbi or the 14dbi antenna?
 

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