Lets talk battery life

[yblaser]

So maybe these threads can be answered in future as either:

In my experience breaking in the battery has helped improve my battery life, but others have had different experiences and opinions. I feel the added time to break in is worth the potential benefit.

-or-

I have not seen any solid evidence that breaking in the battery helps battery life and there is no scientific evidence that it does, but some people report anecdotal evidence that it helps.

While I personally believe the latter, making blanket statements on either side does a disservice to the board, especially to people who have little experience with these batteries and are coming to the forum for advice.

 

[Dome]

The break-in process exists because a multi-cell battery, if will fail, will do it in first 10-20 cycles. When you surge so high current from anode-cathode junction connected to the substrate li-po sheets, the probability it will cut off is not so rare. It means that resistance of a cell raise due to bad connection inside the cell. With the break-in you assure that your battery is safe enough to use. The burnin test done by QA in China ..mhhh don't let me sure. Beware of temperature, going over 50-55C in flight will shorten bat life.

 

[N017RW]

The problem I saw with this is that the info. keeps getting distributed as fact causing many to fear they have just damaged their battery due to their ignorance.

Because everything on the web is true the inexperienced masses run with it.

If you want to say some, or I, feel that this helps than fine, but going beyond that in the 'vacuum of manufacturer recommendations' and science is misleading people.

 

[DrewFlies]

I was wondering if you can post how many charges you have vs % life. My battery that came with the bird have 15 charges on it and it's at 98% life. Not to sure this is a good sign...

At that percentage is it no good?

I have 2x batteries over 30 cycles each and still at 100%. Did you break in you batteries properly?

 

[silverstoned83]

The problem I saw with this is that the info. keeps getting distributed as fact causing many to fear they have just damaged their battery due to their ignorance.

Because everything on the web is true the inexperienced masses run with it.

If you want to say some, or I, feel that this helps than fine, but going beyond that in the 'vacuum of manufacturer recommendations' and science is misleading people.

I've had the same questions/doubts as you about what I was reading on the web regarding the break-in topic, BEFORE I tested and proved it to myself. I'm sorry for not taking pictures and graphing the results, but it would be nice if there were a little more trust in what I'm trying to explain. Unless you've proved it to yourself that what I'm suggesting is useless, which you obviously haven't, maybe you should try to keep an open mind rather than assume that it's complete nonsense.

Are you willing to accept the fact that there's at least a possibility that the user is at fault? It seems like you're dead set on blaming the manufacturer. Can I blame you for feeling that way? No. I've had my share of DJI defects and QA issues, so I can see why you might feel that way. However, if a battery lasts through the first 10-20 cycles, but still fails prematurely.... Almost ALWAYS it is the pilot's way of using it that is to blame, period.

 

[mconheady]

Stop with Opinion. Start with fact.

Let's top making up facts and process and maintenance ideas and telling people it works without any evidence.

Let's just ask DJI -

Uh oh... looks like DJI disagrees with the Breakin BS that has been going around. Half full isn't recommended? Seems like DJI actually follows standard liPo care... which is... fully charge and drain batteries as cycles.
How about we stop propagating the ********, now? Thanks.

 

[AirApparent]

Stop with Opinion. Start with fact.

Let's top making up facts and process and maintenance ideas and telling people it works without any evidence.

Let's just ask DJI -

Uh oh... looks like DJI disagrees with the Breakin BS that has been going around. Half full isn't recommended? Seems like DJI actually follows standard liPo care... which is... fully charge and drain batteries as cycles.
How about we stop propagating the ********, now? Thanks.

Ha! The DJI responses are written as well as the manual! "Thank you for your patients..." Well, I sure hope the battery feels better.

 

[silverstoned83]

Stop with Opinion. Start with fact.

Let's top making up facts and process and maintenance ideas and telling people it works without any evidence.

Let's just ask DJI -

Uh oh... looks like DJI disagrees with the Breakin BS that has been going around. Half full isn't recommended? Seems like DJI actually follows standard liPo care... which is... fully charge and drain batteries as cycles.
How about we stop propagating the ********, now? Thanks.

Again, thier response does not suprise me one single bit. Keep on believing that they use some special LiPo tech where the rules do not apply, that's exactly what they want you to believe. They're totally maintenance free and require no special care to get the most out of them..... Yeah, keep on dreaming....

I'm afraid that it will take a lot more than DJI's word to effect my beliefs, which I've been providing proof for using credible sources. You argue about it not being in the manual.... Well what about all the other stuff that's not in the manual? They mention nothing about how much fog effects the video signal, so does that mean it's a myth?

They also mention nothing about what heat can do to a LiPo, does that mean there's nothing to worry when you finish a flight and the LiPo is HOT? How about after an 18 min flight down to 8% before 20 cycles? I wonder why they want you to wait 20 cycles before doing that......... Hmmmmmmmmm......

I have a suggestion, how about you prove something to us for once... If it matters so much to you that everyone needs to stop believing the rules that have been proven to make a LiPo last longer, I suggest you buy a LiPo and treat it in the exact opposite manner than what has been proven to work. See what happens...

 

[mconheady]

Their response seems pretty spot on with lipo maintenance. Full cycles are best.
Half cycles are BS.

 

[silverstoned83]

Interesting, can you show me where this info is posted about full cycles being best for LiPo's? I've shown proof to support what I'm saying, how about you do the same. I could care less what DJI says about this.... And you have no other proof to support your beliefs. Would you like to tell me why I should forget about what has been proven by several credible people in the RC community and trust DJI instead?? Based on your response, it's because DJI said so.... Sorry, but I would rather listen to someone that is actually looking out for MY best interests, not their own.

 

[mconheady]

Yes, things can be maintanance free. Sorry, but tips on youtube and posts on RC groups, and blogs that don't know the difference between battery types are not reliable sources. THEY WANT to believe they have control over the performance of a tech they don't understand just by pulling some superstitious routine and selling it to you like they are some expert.

Pull up a lipo manual from a manufacturer of high performance batteries.

Count how many times they tell their CUSTOMERS to follow this magical RC battery BREAK IN routine spouted all over message boards. Then take that FAT ZERO times you find it and start thinking you perhaps have some facts wrong. Not a single reputable manufacturing source talks about break in. Why would that be? Hmmm. Because it's not true. Some hobbyist made it up and the premise is so enticing, people propagate it as fact.

Aviation batteries: http://manuals.hobbico.com/hca/lifesource-manual-v2.pdf
Tesla Batteries http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/Model-S-Owners-Manual.pdf
http://www.newark.com/pdfs/techarticles/tektronix/LIBMG.pdf
http://manuals.hobbico.com/hca/lifesource-manual-v2.pdf
http://www.greenworkstools.com/uploads/documents/GW_US_20V_Batterycharger_manual_EN_1230.pdf
https://c.aarc.org/resources/sns_vent_training/resources/17216-001-H-Ops-Manual-LTV-TBS.pdf
thousands more where that came from (just a matter of googling lithium polymer battery manual and seeing that every result comes up is suspiciously lacking tips for breaking in their batteries. )

Still waiting on evidence from a battery manufacturer telling users to follow a similar break in scheme....

 

[ImJim]

http://www.phantompilots.com/threads/this-may-stop-the-battey-debate.48618/

 

[GordonT]

I agree with mconheady, spot on!

 

[silverstoned83]

Keep reading manuals.... Real world experience will always prove to be a superior understanding. Referencing nothing but manuals only shows your lack of experience with RC LiPo's.

 

[silverstoned83]

Yes, things can be maintanance free. Sorry, but tips on youtube and posts on RC groups, and blogs that don't know the difference between battery types are not reliable sources. THEY WANT to believe they have control over the performance of a tech they don't understand just by pulling some superstitious routine and selling it to you like they are some expert.

Pull up a lipo manual from a manufacturer of high performance batteries.

Count how many times they tell their CUSTOMERS to follow this magical RC battery BREAK IN routine spouted all over message boards. Then take that FAT ZERO times you find it and start thinking you perhaps have some facts wrong. Not a single reputable manufacturing source talks about break in. Why would that be? Hmmm. Because it's not true. Some hobbyist made it up and the premise is so enticing, people propagate it as fact.

Aviation batteries: http://manuals.hobbico.com/hca/lifesource-manual-v2.pdf
Tesla Batteries http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/Model-S-Owners-Manual.pdf
http://www.newark.com/pdfs/techarticles/tektronix/LIBMG.pdf
http://manuals.hobbico.com/hca/lifesource-manual-v2.pdf
http://www.greenworkstools.com/uploads/documents/GW_US_20V_Batterycharger_manual_EN_1230.pdf
https://c.aarc.org/resources/sns_vent_training/resources/17216-001-H-Ops-Manual-LTV-TBS.pdf
thousands more where that came from (just a matter of googling lithium polymer battery manual and seeing that every result comes up is suspiciously lacking tips for breaking in their batteries. )

Still waiting on evidence from a battery manufacturer telling users to follow a similar break in scheme....

How does Tesla's car battery have anything to do with our RC LiPo's? Oscilloscope batteries, LiFePO4 batteries, etc. are completely different than an RC LiPo that's capable of high discharge rates. Tesla's battery uses a few thousand Panasonic 18650's LiPo's, which should be considered one of the best quality LiPo's available, and do not require a break in due to the fact that they are not expected to flow the kind of current that our RC LiPo's are capable of.

High current flow equals low cell internal resistance. A low resistance means that even the smallest change in the IR value can make a big impact on the LiPo's operating temp. The fact of the matter is that internal resistance drops over the first 10-20 cycles. Another way to say that would be that IR is significantly higher during the first few cycles, which means more heat. I said it once and I'll say it again, heat is a LiPo's worst nightmare.

 

[hasofy]

I have three batteries, the one coming with the Phantom at 35 flights, all at 100 percent. Did not break them in, but I mostly land at around 20 percent remaining.

 

[silverstoned83]

I have three batteries, the one coming with the Phantom at 35 flights, all at 100 percent. Did not break them in, but I mostly land at around 20 percent remaining.

What's the climate like where you're at?

 

[hasofy]

I've flown it Poland in May and June at 15 to 20°C and in July at up to 35°C.

 

[silverstoned83]

I've flown it Poland in May and June at 15 to 20°C and in July at up to 35°C.

Is it safe to assume that the first 10 cycles were in the cooler temps?

 

[hasofy]

Yes.