Hey DJI: Easy solution to most crashes

konidair · Oct 9, 2016

Cobs said:
It would have to be a very wide bridge, ive flown under many bridges and never lost a signal or had it failsafe yet, water is good at reflecting and bouncing signals.

That's exactly right, that's why RTH doesn't usually kick in under bridges so no problems of the drone hitting the bridge

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Cobs · Oct 9, 2016

The BreadCrumb / TrackBack plan is to return the video signal i would imagine because once some lose video they probably panic and hit RTH, i guess they think its lost all connections when in reality the first to go would usually be the video link.

On the base system it could use Track-Back or RTH options, its just another little helper in times when a full RTH isnt needed and the Pilot is well aware of what happened and wishes to continue from the last working feed, the "Pressed" RTH should have full over-ride of all systems of course as that is your last resort.

MartyPilot · Oct 9, 2016

Drestin Black said:
Folks! I guess I should never have mentioned "Return to Home" at all.

This is not that and doesn't replace it.

Clear your mind of that function - please try to focus on the scenario.

You are flying and you go behind a bunch of trees or a building. You lose signal. Are you wanting to throw away the entire flight and go all the way back home or... just back up a little bit, regain signal, then resume flying?

I'm suggesting a "back up" function. Back out of what got me here.

Frankly in all my hundreds of flights, I have never wanted to push one button and automatically come straight back home blindly as I grab a beer or go watch tv. I've always flown missions that I took off, flew out, then came back and landed. And almost all of them looked like elongated circles, I didn't come back on the same original line.

This is. To RTH - talk about your new ideas for new RTH in your own threads. This is back up, regain signal and continue flying yourself. (Though BURGCFY is a bit long)

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I totally understand your point and I agree. Everytime I loose connection my hope would be to just back off a little becauses seconds before that connection loss all was good and with the 3 options we have I don't find anything usefull .... hover requires me to run like hell to get the signal back... rth just mess all my flight and It relies on a setting done bedore flight that don't into account possible changes in the flight plan) and land is just an hilarious option that nobody would possibly use.

So yes .. the drone knows where it's safe to back off because if it goes to that point it means that the pevious point are clear of obstacles.

Thank you for that awesome idea and I think that the ones who are using the sdk are the ones that should implement right now ... I use AutoPilot and I would really appreciate to have thata option ... that beeing said the RTH would still be available if that is what's needed.

Thanks again

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MartyPilot · Oct 9, 2016

konidair said:
I gave you a couple of examples before.
Imagine this scenario: You are filming a train in motion. You and your RC are located on the right side of the train and your drone starts flying at 6ft high, passing in front of the train and filming it's left side...and then you lose signal, your drone backtracks and crashes on the train that's now crossing your breadcrumbs trajectory.
As I have previously written, your idea is good, but nothing is more important than pre-planning your fligts, identifying hazards and simply setting the correct RTH altitude.

Also, IMHO 99% of the time going up and straight home is the safest option. Losing signal/connection with the drone is a scary situation especially if you are flying out of LOS. You don't know if your drone has fallen, if it still flies, if the battery is failing and what kind of other errors it might have during the rest of the flight, so it makes sense to get it back home asap.
I repeat this is my personal opinion but I would like to have a backtrack option available.

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You have to think vefore the flight and set the best option but the point here is that this option is not even possible now so just adding a good option doesn't mean it solve all situations ....

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MartyPilot · Oct 9, 2016

42FrankZ said:
If you fly behind the tree in this scenario it isn't an accident. You did it purposefully, or you weren't really in control of your aircraft.

Being in control means not flying into spots that you will loose signal.

....... we are distributing cookies for perfect ones ... here's yours !!!!

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MartyPilot · Oct 9, 2016

Drestin Black said:
Well, we all try to be perfect. But sometimes we make mistakes and accidentally fly behind something - intentionally or stupidly - and being able to recover would be nice.

I don't get the resistance; it's just one more option to help recover our craft safely and hopefully save the flight and avoid any further damage. Just an option. Folks seem to get "offended" at the idea of changing the "factory way"

Anyway; appreciate all the feedback

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We live in such a world ... you must be perfecr or die lol

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MartyPilot · Oct 9, 2016

NRJ said:
RTH and going up and straight home is good in your scenario. But, what if you are flying under a bridge and you lose signal. Flying straight up may just cause you to lose your bird. Not good in this option. A stop and hover would be better, but then you just drain the battery and it will land in the water. In this bridge scenario, the Back up option works. You can't plan for everything, but the more options you have to get out of it... helps.

That appen to me ... under a bridge I was LOS thus loose signal and must act quick because it was to crash under that bridge ansd that option would be good

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MartyPilot · Oct 9, 2016

konidair said:
Flying under a bridge it's way more likely to lose GPS signal than RC connection, so none of our "solutions" will work. Without a gps signal the drone cannot go home, cannot go back using breadcrumbs and cannot even hover!

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Lol you wont loose 20 satellite at once but loose 1 rc is what appen a lot

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konidair · Oct 9, 2016

MartyPilot said:
Lol you wont loose 20 satellite at once but loose 1 rc is what appen a lot

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LOL American bridges must be different than Australian ones.

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pelermon · Oct 9, 2016

Reverse course is a GREAT OPTION with more then 50% battery.
I would like to see it on Litchi, that way you only need to plan mission one way if you want. Less chance of error.

MartyPilot · Oct 9, 2016

Had you read to all post on this topic ... clearly not so instead of saying anything take the time to read

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Southern Oklahoma · Oct 9, 2016

I like the idea in the original post, with one small change. If it is going to hover for 3 seconds waiting then I think it should only back track for a short amount of time. If no signal then RTH as it currently is.

Jorge Flora · Oct 9, 2016

Traveler said:
DB,
I passed your concept over to VC Tech, aka Litchi, and the good new is they said good idea, the bad news is they can't make it happen. Looks like only DJI can affect an action after signal loss. Here's the reply they sent.

"While the idea is good, it is not something we can do on our end. Litchi cannot do anything after the signal is lost, only the firmware is able to control the drone at that point. We do not program the firmware, DJI does."

Just to clarify:
Any SDK app , either Litchi, Ultimate Flight (IMHO much better than Litchi but only Android - I have both), or whatever, can only implement options using what is already in the firmware, one way or another (they want us to think they're doing something from scratch but that is not the case)
They just use these features in a diferent way (sometimes the way DJI should have implemented in GO, I agree)
And if they ADD some options, like Litchi in Waypoint Missions, then these only work while connected: they are lost once signal is lost (distance is the most common cause in waypoint missions).
ALL failsafe measures are embeded in the firmware and CAN NOT be override, or modified in any way.

DJI has the only and last word here. I wish you all luck...

Alexpho · Oct 10, 2016

I lose signal, return home kicks in, I regain signal, I shut return home off and resume my flight. I am saying this because i don't trust the P4 to self land

beadman · Oct 10, 2016

Drestin Black said:
As I said, not intended to replace RTH - have both.

My idea is intended to get your drone back in connection again.

I believe that anyone who lost then regained signal wouldn't want to immediately fully abort and just come straight home.

If you regained signal, wouldn't you want to resume flying whatever you were doing? That's what this would do.

This is intended to bring the craft back into signal, not intended for a full return flight.

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Can't you abort the return to home anytime you want by pressing the RTH button again after it has engaged? Thereby not having to abort the entire flight?

HVDV · Oct 10, 2016

RTH is a great function so long as it is not activated when you are under an obstruction such as a bridge, power lines or tree branches, or the top of an obstacle between the drone and home is higher than 400 feet above your launch point. However the Breadcrumb solution is much safer under those conditions. I like it as an additional option.

NRJ · Oct 10, 2016

beadman said:
Can't you abort the return to home anytime you want by pressing the RTH button again after it has engaged? Thereby not having to abort the entire flight?

I have pressed the RTH button after RTH was already initiated and it has cancelled at the second RTH button press. I learned that by accident. That is my experience.

Dounin Front · Nov 15, 2016

Drestin Black said:
I've been reading a lot on this forum and others. To me, the most common sources of crashes are: actually hitting something due to pilot error and return to home crashes.

I'd like to address this second category because there is a very easy solution to it, that can be done via software (firmware/app) and would benefit just about everyone. It's so simple I've thought about it a while before posting in case I'm missing something. And DJI Legal, I hereby relinquish any rights to this idea; you are free to implement it without compensation or acknowledgement to me, so long as you do not charge anything extra for this "feature."

Currently we have Return to Home and Smart Return to Home. Thank you, these have no doubt saved many folks in many instances. They have their limitations and problems though. They have to have the right altitude set, and it's done manually, before engagement. And there are limits to how high and also, on systems with Obsticle Avoidance, limitations on what to do should an unexpected obstacle be encountered. Many drones have been lost because RTH crashed into something by taking a as-the-bird-flys straight line back home path.

The solution elements are already already present on all the drones. A record of where the drone has flown and the ability to follow waypoints autonomously. The flight record has a very accurate "breadcrumb" trail and I way points can be programmed and followed, even while out of contact with the controller.

One last comment before I spit out the solution I'm sure many are guessing. In most cases we do not need to fly all the way back home automatically. The RTH function would co-exist with this new one, for times when a straight line, come back to home, is still required. My solution doesn't replace RTH.

The most common times SRTH is used is when the drone loses contact briefly with the controller. RTH kicks in and then just simplistically fly in a straight line back, only offering altitude (and maybe some front OA, if it's on and working) home. What pilots Really want in these instances is control of their craft back so they can resume flying safely and under control.

Back To Contact or BTC is my proposed name. When the drone loses connection, this system would first stop and hover the drone in place for, say, 3 seconds. Signal might resume for various reasons, let's give it a chance (and for the system to queue up what may come next).

If the connection is still missing after 3 seconds; the drone should read back from the flight log the GPS coordinates of the path it just safely flew and replay those waypoints and fly, essentially (if not physically), back along the path that had radio connectivity, it would fly along that path as long as necessary; eventually that would come home to land.

This would be both optional to engage and, of course, can be overridden at any time.

The simple idea: when the drone loses contact with the controller, stop, hover, then fly back along the path it just came, presumable back into signal range where the pilot can decide what to do himself.

Sincerely,
Happy DJI pilot seeking to be safer & happier one,
DiB

Someone at DJI was thinking just like you. Your request is built into the new P4 Pro. (Retrace RTH)
What do they say about great minds?
Good job!

Traveler · Nov 15, 2016

Drestin Black said:
I've been reading a lot on this forum and others. To me, the most common sources of crashes are: actually hitting something due to pilot error and return to home crashes.

I'd like to address this second category because there is a very easy solution to it, that can be done via software (firmware/app) and would benefit just about everyone. It's so simple I've thought about it a while before posting in case I'm missing something. And DJI Legal, I hereby relinquish any rights to this idea; you are free to implement it without compensation or acknowledgement to me, so long as you do not charge anything extra for this "feature."

Currently we have Return to Home and Smart Return to Home. Thank you, these have no doubt saved many folks in many instances. They have their limitations and problems though. They have to have the right altitude set, and it's done manually, before engagement. And there are limits to how high and also, on systems with Obsticle Avoidance, limitations on what to do should an unexpected obstacle be encountered. Many drones have been lost because RTH crashed into something by taking a as-the-bird-flys straight line back home path.

The solution elements are already already present on all the drones. A record of where the drone has flown and the ability to follow waypoints autonomously. The flight record has a very accurate "breadcrumb" trail and I way points can be programmed and followed, even while out of contact with the controller.

One last comment before I spit out the solution I'm sure many are guessing. In most cases we do not need to fly all the way back home automatically. The RTH function would co-exist with this new one, for times when a straight line, come back to home, is still required. My solution doesn't replace RTH.

The most common times SRTH is used is when the drone loses contact briefly with the controller. RTH kicks in and then just simplistically fly in a straight line back, only offering altitude (and maybe some front OA, if it's on and working) home. What pilots Really want in these instances is control of their craft back so they can resume flying safely and under control.

Back To Contact or BTC is my proposed name. When the drone loses connection, this system would first stop and hover the drone in place for, say, 3 seconds. Signal might resume for various reasons, let's give it a chance (and for the system to queue up what may come next).

If the connection is still missing after 3 seconds; the drone should read back from the flight log the GPS coordinates of the path it just safely flew and replay those waypoints and fly, essentially (if not physically), back along the path that had radio connectivity, it would fly along that path as long as necessary; eventually that would come home to land.

This would be both optional to engage and, of course, can be overridden at any time.

The simple idea: when the drone loses contact with the controller, stop, hover, then fly back along the path it just came, presumable back into signal range where the pilot can decide what to do himself.

Sincerely,
Happy DJI pilot seeking to be safer & happier one,
DiB