Got a call from the FAA today

Extremely unlikely. In all respects, extremely unlikely. There's just too much monetary potential for the Congress to even try something this dumb. Congress cannot make regulations, only laws that federal agencies go through the rulemaking process to implement. Licensing hobby operators similar to licensing HAM radio operators is likely even without an accident, and that would be bad, how?

Even with more than a million hours of personal drone flights worldwide there has not been a single incident of a drone vs civil aircraft collision. Not one. Over the last 20 years, manned aircraft midair collisions occur on the average, once a month. One in five involve fatalities. (AOPA Air Safety Foundation) Most of these are transponder-equipped aircraft and often one of the aircraft are in contact with ATC (enroute, approach or tower). Both aircraft are following the rules, yet midair collisions continue to occur. More rules is not going to fix it. ADS-B will probably reduce midair collisions, but they will continue to occur.

So, once again, where is the blood and mayhem to justify your fear-mongering?


Mid air collisions between "manned aircraft" occur on average once a month. What does that have to do with drones?

My concern is legitimate. Your dismissal is uninformed.
Google drone vs aircraft collision and see how many PIREPS of near misses there have been.
All I'm saying is it's going to happen. Unfortunately. I'll get back to you when it does and we'll re address this point.

I think your opinion is a bit reckless.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...8c1716-758c-11e4-bd1b-03009bd3e984_story.html

Good thing you said "Civil".....
http://defensetech.org/2011/08/17/midair-collision-between-a-c-130-and-a-uav/

Are you in fact a licensed FAA pilot by chance?

How many videos are out there of drones being flown above the clouds, or at much higher altitude than allowed? Just one or two? Can you do a quick count since they are so rare?

All I said was we should not do, nor encourage our fellow pilots to do, things that put other people at risk. You disagree?
If you have a problem with that simple idea then you should do a serious self check.

Unlike us drone pilots safe on the ground, the lives of people in airplanes are dependent on having unobstructed airspace. Consider that.

Hey, when I say the drones are baby killers then you can smack me down lol
 
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Precisely my point. Seems that they are choosing to pursue "drone" videos and pictures but not other "violations" If it's a rule that all aircraft operators have to adhere to then pursue ALL aircraft operators whether they are standing on tera firma or sitting in a pilots seat...


Please post a link to your data indicating why you feel this way.

You must have something indicating such or is it just hot air?
 
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Unlike us drone pilots safe on the ground, the lives of people in airplanes are dependent on having unobstructed airspace. Consider that./QUOTE]


Very good point. Our number 1 priority should be safety. It is the best thing to promote our hobby.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Mid air collisions between "manned aircraft" occur on average once a month. What does that have to do with drones?

Just trying to put your sky is falling paranoia into perspective.

My concern is legitimate. Your dismissal is uninformed.
Google drone vs aircraft collision and see how many PIREPS of near misses there have been.
All I'm saying is it's going to happen. Unfortunately. I'll get back to you when it does and we'll re address this point.

Jim Williams, the FAA executive in charge of integrating unmanned aerial systems (UAS) into the National Airspace System (NAS) says that if and when a small UAS (sUAS) and a manned aircraft collide, the manned aircraft isn't likely to suffer serious damage. Jim Williams was speaking to a nervous audience of helicopter operators at HAI (Helicopter Association International) Heli-Expo in Orlando (March 2015) and said that while there's never been a reported contact between an sUAS and a civilian aircraft, the military has some experience in that regard. In all cases the aircraft was virtually unscathed while the UAS was "smashed to pieces." He said aircraft are much more robust than the lightly built UASs, which inevitably come up on the short end of a chance encounter. Nevertheless, he pledged that the FAA has safety at the forefront of its UAS integration plan without displacing existing traffic. "We can't integrate unmanned systems at the expense of manned systems," he told a skeptical crowd of more than 200 at the Orange County Convention Center.

Also, military drones tend to be much larger and much heavier than the Phantom.

Your example is a stretch for an analogy to what a drone can do to an airplane. The Shadow 200 RQ-7 Tactical Unmanned Aircraft is considered small by the military, but it weighs 375 pounds. If that's the extent of the damage to an airplane from a 375 pound military drone, just imagine the horrific paint scrape from a three pound plastic Phantom.



Politicians and fear mongers like to refer to the FAA Drone data spreadsheet that was released last November as substantiation of their fears. They obviously did not read the reports, just the sensational title: “Drone Sightings.” Of the almost 200 reports, most were not within five miles of an airport, many are unverified, and none of them caused a pilot to make any evasive action. Airline pilots are reporting drones just like they were reporting UFOs in the ‘60s. Just change the word “UFO” to “drone,” and it’s the same script.

Most amazing is that some of the pilots can even see a drone as claimed. Standing on the ground, looking up at the DJI Phantom, it becomes a barely perceptible speck at 200 feet, yet quite a few of the reports say the sighted drone was 500 feet or more away from them. One even reported “a few hundred yards” - good eagle eyes on that reporter. Another “3,000 feet below ...” - that’s a threat, how? The FAA database of drone sightings even includes complaints from private citizens saying, for example “that a neighbor was flying a UAS over his home and neighboring homes at 100 feet the previous evening.” And another where the drone operator “was stuck in a tree to retrieve his UAV that had crashed into the same tree.” In one, a pilot said that “a drone was following him” - pretty good when most drone’s top speed is well below the stall speed of most aircraft.

Are you in fact a licensed FAA pilot by chance?
Commercial, CFI, Instrument. Some tail time, some helicopter time, and .5 hours in an air Force C5 simulator. (I had to log that one). Over 1200 hours in all. Most in my own Cessna.

How many videos are out there of drones being flown above the clouds, or at much higher altitude than allowed? Just one or two? Can you do a quick count since they are so rare?
Higher than allowed? Allowed by whom? You? Certainly not the FAA. 400 ft is a GUIDELINE, not a rule. Yes there is a rule prohibiting VFR flight between 18,000 and 60,000 ft, and if your drone can fly that high, I want to see it.

All I said was we should not do, nor encourage our fellow pilots to do, things that put other people at risk. You disagree?
No. On that we are completely in agreement.
Where we digress is that we have enough nay-sayers and fear mongering from the Muggles and grandstanding politicians. There is no need to create nonexistent "rules" to support them. Fear mongering like yours just adds to the chorus of "the sky is falling" that we get from people who likely have never even seen a drone, let alone fly one. All your criticism does is to encourage the clueless lawmakers and the cops.

As I said - keep it in perspective.
 
Just trying to put your sky is falling paranoia into perspective.

First of all, it's a bit rude your tone and accusations. Just because someone disagrees with your position does not make them paranoid or incorrect. Second, that is a poor choice of perspective in my opinion. Mid air collisions between manned and unmanned aircraft not under any radar supervision, communications capability or other controlled means of flight in no way compares to a hobbyist flying from a field for the fun of it.

Jim Williams, the FAA executive in charge of integrating unmanned aerial systems (UAS) into the National Airspace System (NAS) says that if and when a small UAS (sUAS) and a manned aircraft collide, the manned aircraft isn't likely to suffer serious damage. Jim Williams was speaking to a nervous audience of helicopter operators at HAI (Helicopter Association International) Heli-Expo in Orlando (March 2015) and said that while there's never been a reported contact between an sUAS and a civilian aircraft, the military has some experience in that regard. In all cases the aircraft was virtually unscathed while the UAS was "smashed to pieces." He said aircraft are much more robust than the lightly built UASs, which inevitably come up on the short end of a chance encounter. Nevertheless, he pledged that the FAA has safety at the forefront of its UAS integration plan without displacing existing traffic. "We can't integrate unmanned systems at the expense of manned systems," he told a skeptical crowd of more than 200 at the Orange County Convention Center.

Also, military drones tend to be much larger and much heavier than the Phantom.

Your example is a stretch for an analogy to what a drone can do to an airplane. The Shadow 200 RQ-7 Tactical Unmanned Aircraft is considered small by the military, but it weighs 375 pounds. If that's the extent of the damage to an airplane from a 375 pound military drone, just imagine the horrific paint scrape from a three pound plastic Phantom.




Politicians and fear mongers like to refer to the FAA Drone data spreadsheet that was released last November as substantiation of their fears. They obviously did not read the reports, just the sensational title: “Drone Sightings.” Of the almost 200 reports, most were not within five miles of an airport, many are unverified, and none of them caused a pilot to make any evasive action. Airline pilots are reporting drones just like they were reporting UFOs in the ‘60s. Just change the word “UFO” to “drone,” and it’s the same script.

Most amazing is that some of the pilots can even see a drone as claimed. Standing on the ground, looking up at the DJI Phantom, it becomes a barely perceptible speck at 200 feet, yet quite a few of the reports say the sighted drone was 500 feet or more away from them. One even reported “a few hundred yards” - good eagle eyes on that reporter. Another “3,000 feet below ...” - that’s a threat, how? The FAA database of drone sightings even includes complaints from private citizens saying, for example “that a neighbor was flying a UAS over his home and neighboring homes at 100 feet the previous evening.” And another where the drone operator “was stuck in a tree to retrieve his UAV that had crashed into the same tree.” In one, a pilot said that “a drone was following him” - pretty good when most drone’s top speed is well below the stall speed of most aircraft.


Commercial, CFI, Instrument. Some tail time, some helicopter time, and .5 hours in an air Force C5 simulator. (I had to log that one). Over 1200 hours in all. Most in my own Cessna.


Higher than allowed? Allowed by whom? You? Certainly not the FAA. 400 ft is a GUIDELINE, not a rule. Yes there is a rule prohibiting VFR flight between 18,000 and 60,000 ft, and if your drone can fly that high, I want to see it.


No. On that we are completely in agreement.
Where we digress is that we have enough nay-sayers and fear mongering from the Muggles and grandstanding politicians. There is no need to create nonexistent "rules" to support them. Fear mongering like yours just adds to the chorus of "the sky is falling" that we get from people who likely have never even seen a drone, let alone fly one. All your criticism does is to encourage the clueless lawmakers and the cops.

As I said - keep it in perspective.


Whew! Let me summarize...

Ok, so basically you're just saying you could care less about the safety of others as long as you can have your fun. You of all people have had more than one near miss in the air (if your claims are true) because all pilots have them. And if you really have time in a Cessna, you should well know that an impact with a drone would probably not come out well for the Cessna.

"Fear mongering" and reasonable caution are vastly different concepts. Surprised you are having difficulty with that.

Perhaps it is you who is blowing things out of proportion? The mere mentioning of some common sense possibilities is not what I would call fear mongering (as you like to use so often).

Common sense....aircraft fly often in the 1000 - 2000 ft altitude range.
Why take chances with other people's lives?

Your advice seems to be "hey, throw caution to the wind, fly at any altitude you want. It's ALL good!"
Is that really good advice? Really?

I do not want ANY more government regulations limiting my hobby. Which is why it's FAR better to self regulate.

Finally, let's try to discuss this like gentlemen and not digress to throwing names or accusing others of personality or mental defects because they disagree. Ok?
 
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Ok, so basically you're just saying you could care less about the safety of other as long as you can have your fun.

Got it
Not to speak for someone else but it reads like you are adding unimplied intent to posts that are citing information sources.

Implying someone has malicious intent is slanderous and uncalled for. Its ok for folks to have differing opinions. No need to on the attack.
 
Not to speak for someone else but it reads like you are adding unimplied intent to posts that are citing information sources.

Implying someone has malicious intent is slanderous and uncalled for. Its ok for folks to have differing opinions. No need to on the attack.

Not to speak for someone else but it reads like you are adding unimplied intent to posts that are citing information sources.

Implying someone has malicious intent is slanderous and uncalled for. Its ok for folks to have differing opinions. No need to on the attack.

Honestly, I have no idea what you mean.

Would you be referring to SteveMann's assertion that I am "fear mongering" and "Paranoid" by chance?
What malicious intent do you think he implied regarding my assertion that safety is important?
 
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Honestly, I have no idea what you mean.

Would you be referring to SteveMann's assertion that I am "fear mongering" and "Paranoid" by chance?
What malicious intent do you think he implied regarding my assertion that safety is important?
For that I will apologize and back off.

I have never said that safety was not important. I have never endorsed doing anything stupid even if legal. My problem is the hyperbole and fabrication of rules that do not exist. If someone is flying at 500 ft five miles from an active runway, I would be the first to caution them that they really should notify ATC first. I would NOT say "hey, this idiot is breaking the rules and we are all going to lose our flying privileges."

That's the hyperbole that feeds the fiction that our small drones are flying death machines. A news reporter browsing the web for factoids for a sensational scare article will certainly come from these postings thinking that "gee, if even the drone operators think they are dangerous, then they must be."

Keep it in perspective.
There have been over a million hours of personal drone flight worldwide.
There has not been a single collision of a personal drone and a civil aircraft. Not one.
There has not been a single verifiable report of a drone crash that resulted in a serious injury to someone not connected to the flight. Not one. (A Band-Aid is not a serious injury- See CFR 49-830.2).
There is absolutely no factual evidence to justify fear of personal drones.
 
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Fear mongering and paranoia are vastly different than implying that a person has no regard for lives.

In the end it's just a forum no need to take it personally.
 
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Apology accepted. Good way to finish off a good exchange of values and ideas imo. We are all in this hobby together. Time to go flying! (safely ;-)
 
Most infractions can be pretty subjective. However, flying at night is not.

Zigs
 
John Duncan, director of the FAA’s Flight Standard Service in Washington DC, told inspectors in April (2015) that they have no authority to order or suggest that drone videos posted online be removed.
Where have I claimed the FAA is telling people to remove videos?

A video “is ordinarily not sufficient evidence alone to determine” that a drone flight violated federal rules.
He may have told inspectors that, but it doesn't mean squat until its in writing in an interpretation letter.
 
@powerlord, settle down.

@SteveMann, it amazes me how much you misinform over the FAA process for investigating drone complaints. The header points to this IP as the origin: http://whois.domaintools.com/162.58.35.115.

@Stevenas, it is more likely than not that someone reported your video to the FAA. It's possible that a staffer stumbled across it, but they don't make a habit of scouring the Internet for transgressions. They don't have the bandwidth.

I have taken something away from all of this is that my future videos will be posted private.
Which brings up the thought...does the FAA monitor these forums?
 
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I have taken something away from all of this is that my future videos will be posted private.
Which brings up the thought...does the FAA monitor these forums?
Naaaaaaaaaa
 
I have taken something away from all of this is that my future videos will be posted private.
Which brings up the thought...does the FAA monitor these forums?

unfortunately they are leaving us no choice, huh?
 
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Which brings up the thought...does the FAA monitor these forums?
I would doubt it. Not really an efficient use of their time. But like any forum or internet site, its always good to remember there is no delete button here and everything you post is open to public view. So anything you post here can and will be used against you if someone is motivated enough to find it.

Even if you use an anonymous screen name (which you should), a decent data forensics person can tie you to pretty much any anonymous forum account you have access to. So if you post something incriminating and someone else really wants to hang you for it, they can.
 
If I were an FAA “Barney” and suffered limited bandwidth as someone jokingly mentioned, I’d scan topic specific discussion forums for leads to people I could then bully. I have no doubt they're watching and monitoring anything/everything posted.

Maybe crowdsource a legal defense fund and push back is the way to go? Force 'em to bring their "evidence" and tactics up the ladder?
 
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I don't understand all the bashing of "Experimental" aircraft. What have they done to any of you? I have successfully built two experimental aircraft and flew them for years. I am a certified private pilot, instrument rated and also flew a Bonanza A-36 for years. I have approximately 1500 hours (logged - a lot more not logged). Experimental aircraft go through an extensive inspection by FAA inspectors before they can be certified, yes, certified. They are flown by certified pilots and subject to annual inspections just like "real" airplanes. So, what makes it "illegal" to take a video of my flight and post it on You Tube? Can anyone cite the law? I just wish I had my GoPro when I was flying. I would have had some great video to share when doing aerobatics. Same with flying "real" airplanes. I do have some pictures taken from the Bonanza while in flight. Are they "illegal" if I were to post them on Facebook?
Unfortunately a lot of us who insist on our "rights" to do whatever we **** well please with our toys are going to get some really restrictive rules laid down. It won't be long and you will have to be "Certified" to fly your Phantom. Good luck. I've already got my certificate.
Edit: By the way, I have no love for the FAA. I have been raked over the coals by some "Barneys" because of a false report to them. In their defense, they have to investigate when they get a report or complaint. They did - very enthusiastically in my case - and I passed with flying colors. I also used a FOIA request and found out who made the false report. He was taken care of - - he no longer has his certificate.
 
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