FAA regs for beginners

[DiverDan]

I think more accurately that you would contact the tower if: "you are IN the 5 mile radius"
Maybe I am reading it wrong, but that is is how I understand it. Not a 5 mile radius outside of the 5 mile no fly zone.

Sorry for any confusion. The DJI home page menu item Fly Safe takes you to a page where you can click "no fly zones" and they're a pink circle around the airport. I'm about 3.3 miles from the nearest edge. At the edge of the circle, max fight height is 20m/66 ft. It increases outward at a 15 degree angle upward, so at one mile out the max height is 1480 ft. At my home distance of 3.3 miles away, that's almost a mile high, but that doesn't matter because the FAA max flight height is 400 ft.

So yeah, I'm inside the five mile radius from the edge of the pink circle, so the actual radius in which you're supposed to call is the radius of the pink circle plus five miles.

I just hope the FAA comes up with reasonable rules. The composition of the advisory committee gives me hope, with reps from Mfrs, sellers, and more. [Mfrs means manufacturers, not any other possible interpretation]. This is a view from over the house next door at 50 ft; my house on the right with my pine tree at about 60-65 ft.

Also thx to Marknmd for the link to the 2 Sept 15 pdf. with, in part:

Model aircraft operators flying from a permanent location within 5 miles of an airport should establish a mutually agreed upon operating procedure with the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport).

e.Model aircraft operators should follow best practices including limiting operations to 400 feet above ground level (AGL).

That answers my question!

 

[DiverDan]

My understanding is that the no fly zones (or NFZs if you want to call them that) have nothing to do with reality. Those changes to the firmware in our crafts were made by DJI before FAA put out recent clear rules governing model aircraft flights.

If we're going to discuss FAA rules, we'd probably be wise to speak in FAA terms.

Please see the attached document - specifically section 6.c.(5).

As you can see, this document is dated September 2nd. It clearly states that a mutual agreement may be made between "the tower" and a model aircraft pilot. There is nothing in the document that states a requirement to call the tower each time you fly.

Okay - now what are these areas called that are within five miles of an airport? I don't know. The areas don't seem to have a name yet. Nonetheless, I think it's clear that it is a flight restricted area for model aircraft - restricted meaning we are subject to certain limitations when flying in these areas.

Now move on to section 6.d. of the document.

In that section, it tells us that "The Administrator" may "pursue enforcement action" to persons who operate model aircraft in flight restricted areas and who endanger the National Airspace System (NAS).

What is the NAS? From what I read in a pilot's site, he says the NAS encompasses "every cubic inch" of air in the nation. In other words, if you spit on the grass, you are spitting in the NAS.

So let's say you live 3 miles from an airport but you're surrounded by 100 ft trees. And let's say you wish to fly your Phantom. So you fly it around at 80 ft. max height. Is there an issue?

Technically yes, because you're supposed to get permission from the tower, but in reality no, because you are not endangering the NAS since no manned aircraft is going to be flying in your airspace. And to Marknmd, special thanks for your comment with the link to the pdf. Partial quote from that:

Model aircraft operators flying from a permanent location within 5 miles of an airport should establish a mutually agreed upon operating procedure with the airport operator and the airport air traffic control tower (when an air traffic facility is located at the airport).

e.Model aircraft operators should follow best practices including limiting operations to 400 feet above ground level (AGL).

That pretty well answers my question.

 

[Bryce]

sounds like we shouldn't be updating our apps and software... they seem to run fine on the current versions.. and the past versions are ok as well.

 

[DiverDan]

It is a pleasure to welcome you to the Phantom Pilots forum DiverDan. I hope that you will take advantage of the benefits that come with membership and that you will be able to use the forum for the exchange of innovative ideas and as a resource for current developments in Phantom quadcopter’s.

If I read that correctly, you said you are outside the no fly area, so there would not be a need to call the local tower. I live in a similar situation (and a diver too

).
If you regularly fly inside of the no fly area you may be able to work something out with the tower.

'Scuse me if I post wrong becuz I'm a noob to quads and esp. the P3Pro. Pretty fancy talk for someone who'll be 75 next month, eh? I posted a correction below; I'm 3.3 miles from the pink circle around the airport, and within five miles of that small circle, so yeah, in the zone.

Take a look at a vid made on my Sept trip to Indonesia by two young brothers, from that trip. That;s what inspired me to buy my P3P when I got home after seeing theirs.
Wild Shutter Imaging
Paradise Found, from our trip.

Oh yeah, the obligatory old fart lawn thing: All quaddies are welcome on my lawn.

 

[DiverDan]

sounds like we shouldn't be updating our apps and software... they seem to run fine on the current versions.. and the past versions are ok as well.

Sounds right to me. If it works, don't fix it. And the next one promises to be a big "fix".

Don't get me wrong. Responsible people will fly within the regs and cowboys will push the limits to give us all a bad rep, so all cowboys, please upgrade ASAP.

 

[Mark The Droner]

Hey - 75 is the new 50.

You're welcome.

 

[DAP-UAV]

Being An AMA member does not bestow some special knowledge of the NAS. Certificated Pilots have the knowledge. The point is that these UAVs have the capability to fly in designated controlled airspace. Because of that the FAA must be involved in setting down the rules for safety. Flying FPV for miles and at 500-1500 ft altitude is DANGEROUS! You can only see forward and cannot conduct see and avoid measures. Another aircraft approaching from behind or from the side cannot be seen and avoided. The likelihood of them seeing your drone is slim at best. Some of the rules are a bit silly as they catch up to the technology. But let's not kid ourselves that a danger does not exist. It hasn't happened yet but I believe it's just a matter of time. If it can fly into controlled airspace it is not a toy, it's an aircraft.

 

[PowerDude]

I think you guys are missing the point about AMA. Of course part of what the AMA promotes is safe flying, et all, but it also provides a good amount of insurance. Which most individuals don't have when operating their quad....

 

[turbulence]

You can probably find your answer faster by giving the tower a call. Good luck!

Addison Airport

 

[Bryce]

Sounds right to me. If it works, don't fix it. And the next one promises to be a big "fix".

Don't get me wrong. Responsible people will fly within the regs and cowboys will push the limits to give us all a bad rep, so all cowboys, please upgrade ASAP.

I think people are crazy to update any software in these things or ipads going forward. I have two ipads with the 'working' version of the software mated to their respective quad... I never plan on updating them again.

Is there anything I'm missing here? If they can't get internet..... I have updates turned off.. they can never see an app store... there is no count-down code in the current firmware..... I don't see how that can go wrong.

Anyone see a hole in this?

 

[kphantom]

I think people are crazy to update any software in these things or ipads going forward. I have two ipads with the 'working' version of the software mated to their respective quad... I never plan on updating them again.

Is there anything I'm missing here? If they can't get internet..... I have updates turned off.. they can never see an app store... there is no count-down code in the current firmware..... I don't see how that can go wrong.

Anyone see a hole in this?

I just turned my app auto updates off. I will choose to update myself if an update benefits me. I'm sure many will discuss if there are issues with updates. I'll take a wait and see approach to updating from now on.

 

[Case29247]

In my opinion, ONE IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION rarely voiced in this debate:

It's not always about flying in or around NFZ's when your aircraft is under control. Much of the concern is what happens in a fly-away situation. My gut feeling is that if a fly-away hasn't already happened to you, one will eventually happen.

I know I've had a couple of them in about 200 flights. Fortunately, they were both of the variety where the P2 merely hovered and flew around ignoring my commands before flying itself gently into the ground within sight of me. However, the situation might have been entirely different if instead it took off and flew into the takeoff and landing patterns at our local airport, several miles away.

Thus, putting a lot of space between you and your local airport is probably a prudent thing to do. Just remember, paraphrasing a recent president's words, "It's the fly-aways, stupid!"

 

[Chad Nuttall]

When I visited Airmap, I saw a notice that you have to notify the tower & they provide the phone# for you to call when you click within the NFZ. Personally, I immediately thought the same thing as others, these towers will become besieged with calls. Especially so if a flyer only flies under 250ft for example & is 3.5 miles from the epicenter. Looking at the Airmap map zoomed out makes the U.S. Look like it's got the Chicken Pox!

If a flyer decides to consistently or occasionally fly at the FAA guideline 400ft level then yes, I agree to call the tower. Otherwise, IMHO, this really is overkill. Especially with fixed wing single engine model airplanes without GPS. I fly my plane only a few hundred feet out and probably less than a 100ft high. But I have to notify a tower for this flight if I'm in a NFZ? Sorry, but again I say, in these situations it's overkill!

Ignore airmap. They are a load of BS. They have every lake and grass strip loaded in my area. Just talked with FSDO at an industry thing last week and they told me airmap is not recognized by them. The rule is no flying within 5 miles without permission from the tower or airport manager for PUBLIC AIRPORTS only.