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Colorado town rejects vote to shoot down drones

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Submariner, Apr 2, 2014.

  1. Submariner

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  2. thongbong

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  3. Visioneer

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    I imagine this town does not have an attorney review their ordinances. Wonder how many of them already "on the books" are constitutional?

    For a town whose official coffers are bare (as reported), how much did they waste putting this idiocy to a vote?
     
  4. erikshable

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    I am out here in Colorado and I believe that they were actually referring to the military recon drones that are tested near the area. The one guy they interviewed seemed to be one of those government conspiracy loons.

    I

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk
     
  5. av8inglife

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    The bill to shoot down drones was..."shot down"

    I love irony. :lol:
     
  6. Howzit

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    Maybe I'm a bit hypocritical here....but, if I bought property out in the middle of no where (with a good plot of land) and someone was hovering over my place with an HD camera attached to it, then I'd probably put a couple rounds of buck shot in it too! :)
     
  7. LuvMyTJ

    LuvMyTJ ADMINISTRATOR
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    If the cam was transmitting an image to a ground station DVR you would be in a whole heap of trouble.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  8. Howzit

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    But, I was just bird hunting! **** Phantoms look like Pigeons!
     
  9. hook3m

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    Trouble from who? It wouldn't be the law. You own the airspace over your property. The Supreme Court decided that in United States vs Causby. "owners still retain the right to “exclusive control of the immediate reaches of the enveloping atmosphere,” which includes “at least as much of the space above the ground as he can occupy or use in connection with the land.” Flying a drone over someone's property at low altitude constitutes a trespass and therefore you would be free to shoot it down. ***** and moan all you want but if you're flying your drone over some ones farm and they shoot it down they are not going to get arrested or ticketed for it. You can try to take them to small claims court but good luck with that.
     
  10. LuvMyTJ

    LuvMyTJ ADMINISTRATOR
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    Actually, the FAA says this... “Shooting at an unmanned aircraft could result in criminal or civil liability, just as would firing at a manned airplane,” So it is not legal to shoot down drones. Thats why that crazy town in Colorado was trying to pass a law to make it legal... they failed. You also can not confiscate or damage a UAV that crashes on your property.
    Also, you do not own to the sky. The case you mention was for military planes and an easement was granted. The current decision is that the landowner owns at least as much of the space above the ground as he can occupy or use in connection with the land. The United States has “complete and exclusive national sovereignty in the air space” over this country. What this means is that yes, a person owns air above their land, but only as much as they can reasonably use. See Hinman v. Pacific Air Transport, 9 Cir., 84 F.2d 755. Any use of such air or space by others which is injurious to his land, or which constitutes an actual interference with his possession or his beneficial use thereof, would be a trespass for which he would have remedy. But any claim of the landowner beyond this cannot find a precedent in law, nor support in reason.
     
  11. Visioneer

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    Good luck would not be required ... all that would be needed is for the court to follow the law. The law does not allow you to take or damage someone else's property just because they (or it) trespassed.

    "the landowner has a duty to the owner of the plane, as well. The landowner cannot keep the landed plane. That would amount to a conversion of the flier's property and the landowner may be compelled to pay the cost of the plane. The landowner may not intentionally damage the plane, as this would be a trespass to the chattel of the flier. The landowner may ask to have it removed by the flier. The landowner may move the craft himself if its location is causing some harm to his enjoyment of his property, or is creating some other risk of harm."
    - http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/2012RevisedModelFliersandNeighborsDOC.pdf

    There's also the issue of showing it was, in fact, over your land. If in the middle of a huge plot, this would probably be easy. If close to a property line, perhaps not so easy. And the shooter would need to show that it somehow interfered with his "beneficial use" of his land. At 100' this could be a reasonable claim, at 400' (or more) this might be a stretch (depends on how good the shooter's eyesight and hearing are ;) ).

    Of course the pilot would have to weigh the possible fine (for trespass) against the lost value (and court costs) of the aircraft.

    A word to the wise ... if you're considering flying in a rural area over (or near) property that's not yours without permission, you should be aware that discharging firearms in such areas is usually allowed, and some folks with firearms consider almost anything within view a valid target; signs, aerial cables, etc. (you'd probably be amazed at how many rural cables are taken out every year by gunshot). A moving target would be especially attractive to these folks.
     
  12. hook3m

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    You can you shoot it down. Not a chance you will be prosecuted for it.
     
  13. Howzit

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    That's likely the simplicity of the matter.

    I'd imagine the most that would actually come from shooting someones "Drone" while over your own rural property would be a civil suit when that 'photographer' sues you for destruction of property. It'd be interesting to see how a judge would rule in such a case.
     
  14. LuvMyTJ

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    Good luck with that theory. Pretty sure even Texans have to abide by the laws.
     
  15. bobomet

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    There will, over the next 2-3 years, many new laws passed to protect drone flying.
    Face it .... drones are the "employees" of the future, and the big-money boys will be using them to do everything from herding cattle to spraying insecticides.
    And those trucks on the roads hauling dirt and feed .... there wont be drivers in them.

    So yeah .... go ahead .... shoot them down, and you'll be standing before a magistrate, facing a lot of time in the "hole".
     
  16. hook3m

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    You guys seriously need to put the crack pipe down if think anyone will get arrested or put in jail for shooting down a private drone over their own land that has a camera attached to it. What would be the charge anyway? Vandalism? With the number of drones flying today it's only a matter of time before it happens so we will see. Besides no jury of 6 or 12, depending on the state you live in, is going to convict someone for shooting down a private drone attached with a camera that is trespassing on someone’s land.
     
  17. xgeek

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    Just curious at what height people think they own the space above their property?.

    I would be pissed if someone was flying 30 foot above my garden hovering, but would not care if they flew over.
     
  18. hook3m

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  19. Howzit

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    It would be the criminal equivalent of breaking a window, if that. Becomes murky, now that we're talking about an object within throwing distance above someones own property.

    One (landowner) could argue 'he was flying his DJI flyaway spinning blades of death trap over my property and I feared for children's and my own safety'.

    Quite frankly, I'd almost expect to get my quad shot down if I were flying over the property of a less friendly neighbor that felt I was 'spying' on him.
     
  20. LuvMyTJ

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    You've quoted a case where the local law enforcement is clearly biased to the shooters and not upholding their duty. C'mon, the shooters wear masks and cover their license plates when they go to the hunt site if you can call shooting fish in a barrel hunting.
    Crap... almost out of TrollChow.
    [​IMG]