ADS-B sooner or later?

[NRJ]

It appears that technology is already available for ADS-B communication between aircraft and drones. When will we get it? Check the link below.

The Case for Low Power ADS-B for Drones

 

[FlyGary]

I've been reading up on this lately. Not sure how much signal output it would take at the low altitudes we should be flying at. And do they want that much noise in the spectrum from all the sUAS in the air.

In the automotive world they are starting to introduce a similar technology to pass speed, road conditions among cars. Can you image the enterprising small town that sets up a receiver and issues tickets. You open up your mail and there is a ticket saying your car reported it was going 65 and with the GPS coordinates we know you were in a 35 zone. Also your seatbelts were not fastened.

Picture the FAA mailing you a summons because you busted airspace or height regulations. I often wonder how HealthyDrones would respond to a subpoena for flight records. DJI we know would say, piss on you, we're China **** it.

 

[NRJ]

I've been reading up on this lately. Not sure how much signal output it would take at the low altitudes we should be flying at. And do they want that much noise in the spectrum from all the sUAS in the air.

In the automotive world they are starting to introduce a similar technology to pass speed, road conditions among cars. Can you image the enterprising small town that sets up a receiver and issues tickets. You open up your mail and there is a ticket saying your car reported it was going 65 and with the GPS coordinates we know you were in a 35 zone. Also your seatbelts were not fastened.

Picture the FAA mailing you a summons because you busted airspace or height regulations. I often wonder how HealthyDrones would respond to a subpoena for flight records. DJI we know would say, piss on you, we're China **** it.

You bring up some good points. I think at least for now, they are not equipped to take advantage of being able to monitor all those drones. This article also said, there were 1.2 million drones sold in 2016. Plus the 450,000 already registered with the FAA in 2016. But your scenario with the cars is scary. Makes you want to call an Uber driver or better yet, an Uber driverless. It's their fault.

 

[MassDrone]

I'm a pilot. In just a few years, most small aircraft will have to install ADS-B equipment, at the cost of several thousand dollars each. Given the ongoing trend for miniaturizing electronics, within a few years the FAA will likely require ADS-B equipment on drones, once it becomes affordable and lightweight.

Unless the FAA gets shut down, that is...

 

[NRJ]

I'm a pilot. In just a few years, most small aircraft will have to install ADS-B equipment, at the cost of several thousand dollars each. Given the ongoing trend for miniaturizing electronics, within a few years the FAA will likely require ADS-B equipment on drones, once it becomes affordable and lightweight.

Unless the FAA gets shut down, that is...

You probably noted from the article linked above about this, that there are many reason's the FAA may not want to have all drones with ADS-B. The mere fact that the skies (at least below 400ft) will be too numerous to monitor or could become dangerous. There were 1.2 million drones sold in 2016 alone. The article states the issues much better than I can. Thanks for you input.

 

[MassDrone]

You probably noted from the article linked above about this, that there are many reason's the FAA may not want to have all drones with ADS-B. The mere fact that the skies (at least below 400ft) will be too numerous to monitor or could become dangerous. There were 1.2 million drones sold in 2016 alone. The article states the issues much better than I can. Thanks for you input.

Perhaps so, but I don't see this as a real problem. My ADS-B receiver allows me to display only other aircraft at a nearby altitude. Each aircraft is displayed with the height above or below me. So, if I'm flying at 2,000 feet above ground (much lower than usual), my ADS-B display might occasionally display a drone next to the number "-16", meaning that it was 1,600 feet below me. Frankly, if I were flying low, I'd want to know about any drones below me.

 

[NRJ]

Perhaps so, but I don't see this as a real problem. My ADS-B receiver allows me to display only other aircraft at a nearby altitude. Each aircraft is displayed with the height above or below me. So, if I'm flying at 2,000 feet above ground (much lower than usual), my ADS-B display might occasionally display a drone next to the number "-16", meaning that it was 1,600 feet below me. Frankly, if I were flying low, I'd want to know about any drones below me.

Personally, I would like to see all flying vehicles have ADS-B. However, it is not always feasible nor possible with various issues that this article was attempting to point out. In the past, we have never had the airways so adulterated by drones personal and otherwise. I think anyone would understand, you can't just add in ADS-B in all flying vehicles without ensuring it will safely work for everyone. But, I agree with you and I would like to see all flying vehicles except the classification of toys include the ADS-B system.

 

[matthewsjl]

There are 1.2m drones in 2016 but not all of them are in the air at any one time - and many may be recycled over the year. Capacity may be a problem but the FAA does have the 978MHz band which should be able to take the strain.

I fly a small plane (Cessna 182) and similar planes are actually pretty hard to spot at 3nm - you've got no chance to see a drone. My Cessna does about 150mph in cruise and if a drone is coming towards me @ 30mph that's a potential closure rate of 180mph = 70s to impact. I think ADS-B will likely lead onto some type of collision avoidance much further down the line. So, to me ADS-B is a good thing for drones too.

You don't need much power - the radius for drones doesn't need to be the same as a small plane (the power of the transmitters in planes is in the 10s of miles).

 

[NRJ]

There are 1.2m drones in 2016 but not all of them are in the air at any one time - and many may be recycled over the year. Capacity may be a problem but the FAA does have the 978MHz band which should be able to take the strain.

I fly a small plane (Cessna 182) and similar planes are actually pretty hard to spot at 3nm - you've got no chance to see a drone. My Cessna does about 150mph in cruise and if a drone is coming towards me @ 30mph that's a potential closure rate of 180mph = 70s to impact. I think ADS-B will likely lead onto some type of collision avoidance much further down the line. So, to me ADS-B is a good thing for drones too.

You don't need much power - the radius for drones doesn't need to be the same as a small plane (the power of the transmitters in planes is in the 10s of miles).

Well, you probably wouldn't be flying around 400ft either except on takeoff and landing and there shouldn't be any drones around you then. But, there are the occasional fools out there. I think it is a great idea and hopefully, they will figure it all out and get them on-board.

 

[Richard R]

Maybe the FAA would offer a discount coupon when you get your 107 ticket or register your bird for commercial use? Yeah, right!

 

[FlyGary]

How about a controller based solution. The aircraft is communicating this location information back the controller, why not use the WIFI/Cell to communicate this over the Internet to something that would interface it with ADS-B? Or even just an ADS-B receiver in the controller so that it could proactively initiate avoidance procedures or overlay nearby aircraft and alerts on the screen. I have a receiver on order from Amazon, will be interesting to see what it actually can pick up from the ground.

 

[Raptorman0909]

It's just a matter of time before all AC larger than 250g will be required to have such a transponder. Initially the cost will be prohibitive for drones but if instead of selling a few tens of thousand transponders to maned AC the volume was increased to hundreds of thousands or millions then the cost could come down to where it would actually be possible on a Phantom class drone or larger. How much did an IMU cost a decade ago -- how much does the one (two) in the P4P cost?

The idea of every AC reporting its position, speed, altitude, etc so that all AC in the area can know this is not only a good idea but over time necessary.

I could see the drone with a transponder and the RC unit having a receiver to monitor other AC transponders and provide that info to the Go app so it can inform the drone pilot if a conflict seem possible. And, just as with the ADS-B system you do not have to even know about AC that are too far away or too high or flying in a direction that will not create a conflict. There may be a million or more drones in the USA but I'd guess the total number in the air at any given time doesn't exceed 10K spread out across the entire country. There would no doubt be places where several drones might be in the air within a few miles of one another but I'd guess the concern about there being too many is unlikely except for very rare situations.


Brian

 

[FlyGary]

>>> And, just as with the ADS-B system you do not have to even know about AC that are too far away or too high or flying in a direction that will not create a conflict.

The UAV receiving traffic is not the issue, but the amount of noise all these additional aircraft may introduce into the national system and can it handle the load. Changes to the ATC network are glacial. Nothing moves quickly and all the components have to be vetted, redundant and resilient
.

 

[Richard R]

And the vast majority of sUASs (all of the quad, RC fixed wing, RC helicopters, etc.) that are flying as hobby fliers won't be affected until or unless congress changes the law that prevents the FAA from any regulation of the hobby world.

 

[Unmannedsky]

PING

LATAS

It's already here. Anybody that's flown with it will tell you it creates a big boost to SA for those that tune in. SWAP is pretty darn good with the PING stuff. Relatively cheap also depending on what you want to do.

 

[offlanders]

Was reading up on the ADS-B equipment currently available at Home website which also seems to suggest that all UASs will be required to have some form of ADS-B by 2020. my questions are these, what exactly will UAS operators be required to have, and can you retrofit and existing P4P to have it?

 

[Richard R]

If you read page 189-190 of the full proceedings and final rule, you will see that the FAA has already considered and rejected "imposing additional conspicuity requirements and will not require UAS to have any technological equipage" (e.g. ADS-B).

 

[BigAl07]

I'm a pilot. In just a few years, most small aircraft will have to install ADS-B equipment, at the cost of several thousand dollars each. Given the ongoing trend for miniaturizing electronics, within a few years the FAA will likely require ADS-B equipment on drones, once it becomes affordable and lightweight.

Unless the FAA gets shut down, that is...

For anyone who is using or planning to use FlightRadar24 (or any such app which relies upon ADS-B) there has been a slight "set back" put into place recently:

FAA Extends ADS-B Mandate To 2040

 

[THA]

For anyone who is using or planning to use FlightRadar24 (or any such app which relies upon ADS-B) there has been a slight "set back" put into place recently:

FAA Extends ADS-B Mandate To 2040

April fool, read the date

 

[BigAl07]

April fool, read the date

Go read the thread linked... It now states it was an April Fools joke. . .