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2nd Drone - Indecisive about V+ or H3?

Discussion in 'Phantom 2 Discussion' started by Med2Miami, Aug 18, 2014.

  1. Med2Miami

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    Hi Guys,

    After losing by p2v+ to customs in Brasil (big no-no for anyone, never bring *any* drone into brasil... tourist or resident, they dont care, its confiscated on some BS allegation it hadnt been "certified" by the local FCC...(which wont be certifying any anytime soon)... so boo boo...

    Anyways, I'm evaluating my next purchase and would like as much input as possible.
    I intialy purchased the P2V+ as I wanted an "all in one" solution, easy to care, easy to deploy (just 1 battery, one remote - ok,+iphone/android), but basically an integrated package.

    I love that about the P2V+. I think its a great product. My only complaints, and this may be because I never had enough time to tinker enough with the settings to get it just right... Although image quality is very good, it is a tad too warped for my tastes on some shots... I dont know if it was distance, or angle, or settings, but many times when doing flybys the object warping would get significantly present... I understand there is some effect to be applied on fotos, is there someting similar for videos?

    So on to the main question, using a P2+ gimbal (I guess the "best" and by best I mean most advanced/flexible at this point is the H3-3D, right?) With that I could go with a GoPro camera, which I have, or with another small point and shoot even? I hear the GoPro quality may be a bit better than the Phantom's but Id'maybe be using for flexibility where another camera with zoom or something could be used?

    Now to the sore-spot, is there a setup that can be "relatively easy" to implement (I'd rather not fiddle with 6 different componenets each with different batteris, etc) that would give me some degree of similarity to the DJI Vision app (I'm not really that into ground station, at least for now, so that feature is a distant 3rd on the lit), but would definitely like an easy FPV on an iphone or android, ability to control the camera from the iphone/android/fpv device, etc... Also telemetry and positioning to help navigate would be great... One complaint with the wide-angle lense of the P2v+ is that I'm often not sure how close or far enough from an object I am.. and I'm always afraid of getting in too close and hitting something...

    I realize the P2+H3+cam+fpv+whtever would be a more complex setup, but is there a series of equipment which is "simple enouhg" iphone/android accessible (so I dont need to haul extra equipment if possible)...

    Oh, and a final cherry on the cake: I own a Spektrum Dx7 radio which I would probably like to put to use in the near future for some extra control if possible? (if I go with the p2v+ I'll sell the spktrum I guess its been collecting dust for a while...)

    Thanks so much!!!
     
  2. HarryT

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    A few things to get clear about the P2:

    1. There is no "app". You use a video transmitter on the P2 to send the video signal, and an FPV monitor or goggles to receive it. It's one-way communication - you can't control the camera, although you can (using the lever on the back of the Tx) control the tilt of the camera.

    2. You can overlay telemetry onto the FPV video using a device called a "mini iOSD" which goes on (or in) the Phantom.

    3. You can only use a GoPro - nothing else. The H3-3D gimbal only work with the GoPro.

    4. You can get rid of the "fish-eye" effect on the video by setting the GoPro to "medium" rather than "wide" field of view.

    Hope that helps,
     
  3. Med2Miami

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    Yes This helps a lot... I think I'm almost there...

    1. I realize the phantom 2 wont have an app... But are there any FPV systems which are app based?

    2. In overlaying telemetry onto the FPV, am I correct in thinkin I need a second camera for FPV and the gopro (without the overlay) for filiming?

    3. I must be mis infomred... Are there other P2 gimbals which take other cameras? or FPV+Gimbal sets which do 2-way control for zooming and tilting for example?

    4. Yes, on the gopro the fishwye can be greatly reduced, I wonder if I can get something similar on the vision cam.. havent tinkered enough but the edjustments I mad didnt seem good enough....
     
  4. HarryT

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    1. Not that I know of.

    2. No, no second camera. The FPV is a low-resolution video feed which comes from the USB port of the GoPro. This is the feed that the iOSD telemetry gets overlayed onto. The GoPro records high-res video without the telemetry overlay.

    3 and 4. Sorry - don't know.
     
  5. QYV

    QYV

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    make sure you get your terminology right... they're all "Phantom 2"s but there is the Vision and non-Vision. Here's a quick summary:
    Phantom 2 Vision are a bit cheaper (in the long run, more on this later) use wifi/app (2.4Ghz) for FPV and telemetry info and therefore their RC control is on 5.8Ghz to not cause interference. Upsides: cheaper and easier. downside of Phantom 2 VISION is that the FPV range is more limited and the camera does you no good in any other application

    Phantom 2 NON-Vision uses RC control in 2.4Ghz range, so you cannot use wifi on the gopro (or any camera device). FPV system in the 5.8Ghz range must be added. downsides: more expensive and more effort since you generally will be doing your own modifications. upsides: much greater potential FPV range, gopro camera can be used for anything.

    The reason I mention the frequencies is because it answers your new "question #1" about app-based FPV.. the answer is NO because you can't run ANYTHING in the wifi (2.4ghz) frequency range.

    From now on I'm only talking about the NON-Vision Phantom and FPV.
    These days there are video transmitters and pre-made cables which can have you installing a FPV system plug and play with no soldering, it's super easy. Just get the ImmersionRC 600mW and the pre-made firstpersonview cable (for use with iOSD).
    DO NOT underestimate the importance of good antennas. Antennas can make all the difference... if you have the budget, this badass FPVLR kit is the ferrari of antenna kits, 2 omnidirectional pinwheels (1Tx 1Rx) and a long range directional helix (for receiver). with those antennas and aforementioned transmitter, your FPV system should easily exceed your Phantom's range (in terms of how far you could possibly fly and get back on a battery).

    I haven't mentioned the receiver yet... you'll want a diversity receiver (2 antenna ports) with 5.8Ghz built in... with that IRC transmitter many people get the Black Pearl 7ch (not 32ch) screen... I hope soon to do some testing with the Boscam RX-LCD5802 32ch to see if it works any better.

    moving on... your question #2: NO you do NOT need an additional camera or anything for telemetry data. You want a device called an iOSD Mini. it plugs into the CAN-BUS port on the Phantom (which you should move up into the shell for an "internal install") and then sits in-line between the video signal coming from the gopro/gimbal, and the video transmitter. the iOSD mini then "overlays" the telemetry data from the flight computer directly onto the video broadcast so you see it on your screen. it's super simple to install.
    (devices like this are why I mentioned that building FPV this way is more expensive... but ultimately better)

    so now #3: there are indeed other gimbals than the Zenmuse which supposedly work on a Phantom 2.. some take GoPro, some take other cameras... I'm afraid I can't speak to the quality of any of those since I have always had Zenmuse (H3-2D now H3-3D). fwiw, I'd recommend sticking with the gimbal that is made by the same company (DJI/Zenmuse) and designed specifically for the Phantom. The only reason to go to a different gimbal (imo) is if you're trying to get a super cheap one. however it makes installing your FPV stuff totally "non-standard" now so for example that plug-and-play cable I posted before would not work.
    Just get the Phantom 2 bundle with H3-3D, you'll be happier. Also the Zenmuse natively supports you being able to adjust the gimbal pointing up/down from your stock RC. if you add a different gimbal with controls, that can get complicated if they don't simply integrate into your stock RC.

    #4: fisheye in the videos depends entirely on the GoPro settings. there are ways to even out the effect using video editing software and such, but imo the easiest way is simply to run in resolutions and choose MEDIUM field of view (fov, not to be confused with fpv). Many GoPro resolutions only support WIDE fov which really has that fisheye effect bad... I find myself running mostly in 1080, medium fov @ 60fps. makes for nice smooth recordings with very little fisheye. I also run in 2.7k sometimes with lower fps because it also has medium fov. I do NOT use 1080superview or any of the resolutions which are wide fov only

    hope that helps a bit
     
  6. Med2Miami

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    Thanks for the detailed account QYV...Yes when I said Phantom 2, I meant Phantom 2, and when I meant the Vision/Vision+ I specifically refrenced them as such... but yes, its easy to get confused lol... but I've been doing a fare bit of using/researching so the nomenclature is pretty clear to me...

    I understand the issue about running on the same frequencies, nonetheless, nothing would prevent a FPV downlink system to connect to a ios or android device perhaps with usb or even plugged in...just in theory...leavig the video-downlink in whatever frequency the supplier chooses, and the Tablet->Receiver connection can be anything from wired to maybe BT (the freq on low voltage bt escapes me), but either way, anything that isnt on 2.4and wouldnt interfere with the main control link...

    But anyways my parafraph above is just a supposition and I understand now that no such setup currently exists... I'll go with another P2V+ for now as I think its better suited for my needs... Thanks for everything!!!
     
  7. Keeper of Maps

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    To get rid of the lens distortion with your GoPro you can run the captured video through the GoPro cine pro app (iirc, correctly) and it will remove the distortion. I shot several fireworks shows recently with a GoPro mounted on a tripod and successfully removed the distortion this way.
     
  8. Med2Miami

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    Cool thanks!

    Any idea what to use to get rid of the Phantom vision+ distortion? preferably on a mac or android maybe? or ios?

    I gather photoshop cc has a filter right? dont wanna be cheap but dont feel like paying 10$/month for it to use it once a week or so... i'd rather buy a one-off software if there isnt anything free... (dont mind paying just not really into the subcription model if unwarping drone vids is the sole use i'll be making)...
     
  9. ianwood

    ianwood Taco Wrangler
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    The key trade off is the one-time education and effort to set up FPV vs. distinctly better video quality of the GoPro H3+B. The H3+B is so much better than there is no comparison. At least for me.
     
  10. Med2Miami

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    Hey @ianwood, thanks for chiming in... I agree to a certain extent and I do own several go-pro cameras and have in the past owned other versions...

    Nonetheless, the more videos I watch the less convinced I am on the real significance of the difference *for me* (there is some difference, but not being such an affictionado its just not enough of a difference for me.... had the go pro some sort of zoom, maybe, I'd perhaps be sold...)

    The second point is you mention "one-time education and effort"... While the education may be one-time, the effort is probably "not so much"? just in chargin/managing differnt batteries (and this varies by setup, but could be phantom/ext/remote/phone = 4 (or 3 if you discount your phone), up to phantom/remote/gopro/videodown/fpv? (so 4 or 5 - maybe more for more intricate setups?)...

    I just recently decided on getting another P2V+ right now (I have plans on getting another drone for use abroad since I cant travel with mine in/out of Brasil) so the other one may be a P2+GoPro, who knows...

    Another factor for me is that, as "lacking" as dji's vision app is, it is quite cool with its telemetry, home and device position displays, etc and as a consumer/hobbyist user I like it quite a bit... I was actuallt looking for something as user friendly as that... :)

    Thanks for the input anywyas! I'll look into some dewarping software and see if I have some luck

    rgds to all