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Why there is no CSC with button combo ?

Discussion in 'Pro/Adv Discussion' started by Karanba, May 29, 2016.

  1. Karanba

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    Just thinking about all those CSC crashes, is it so hard for DJI to make CSC work only with extra button pressed ? Like CSC with both levers + photo button turns the Phantom OFF ? That would avoid a lot of CSC accident crashes and still be usable like it should.
     
  2. msinger

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    DJI changed it for the Phantom 4 when performing CSC mid-flight. So, it would be possible to do.
     
  3. Karanba

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    Also like that or ? I mean just add additional button for CSC and thats it, no more CSC crashes. We can have that all the time, even when on the ground, just press that button + lever position on CSC and it goes ON/OFF.
     
  4. msinger

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    Perhaps someday. For the Phantom 3 though, it would be easiest to just make the necessary software change like they did in the Phantom 4. If you're really paranoid about it though, you could use a CSC Safety.
     
  5. Meta4

    Meta4 Moderator
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    What CSC crashes?
    Accidental CSC in flight is very rare.
    How many are you aware of?
     
  6. Phantomix

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    it is rare, and 99% of the time it is people who have little to no experience with phantoms and no intention of learning how to use it further than knowing how to use the controls, and then complain and badmouth dji when they dont get a replacement because "my phantom just fell out of the sky and they wont replace it"
     
  7. Karanba

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    I did not count but man can read on various forums that some owners crashed that way. Just thinking that adding this would be better in every case. Just like any on/off comand, it has some security incorporated.

    It does not sound better to you to move levers to ESC and then turn it ON or OFF with one button while holding levers in CSC ?
     
  8. Meta4

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    Try to find "all these CSC crashes" and you'll probably find only 5 or less that have been reported so far this year in all the forums I read.
    Accidental CSC gets talked about much, much more than it ever happens.

    The reason DJI don't go out and change the current system is probably because there are something like half a million P3s out there already and trying to introduce such a significant change would probably cause more confusion and trouble than it would prevent because a huge number of users would not know of the change.
    But in any case, accidental CSC is nowhere near as common as you are imagining.
     
  9. alokbhargava

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    I agree there will be very few CSC crashes.

    It is not difficult to modify CSC process through SW change. People will learn the change. It's always preferred to have a change that reduces risk in operations.
     
  10. Karanba

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    Exactly, it is better to say "how to turn this **** thing on or off" when landed than "oh, that was CSC mid air" :)
     
  11. Tenly

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    I don't want to get into an argument about this - but I do think it's important that readers see a contrasting opinion - and that the OP knows that there are many of us who feel the same way that he does.

    I think that 5 accidental CSC's in a year would definitely be a good enough reason to make changes. That's 5 preventable accidents. Crashes that could have and should have been avoided! I'm assuming that nobody got hurt in any of them - but it's only a matter of time until somebody does. Especially with 3rd party apps adding the capability to re-map the joysticks so that they perform different functions than they do in DJI-Go. The joystick combinations needed to activate a CSC are no longer as "crazy" or as unlikely as they used to be.

    As for the confusion - they could make it a user-selectable thing for the first year or two after its release (or forever). So, the old dogs wouldn't be forced to learn new tricks - they could keep using the feature the way they no now - but the new "default" CSC would be changed to something that makes more sense.

    BTW - do you know what's even more rare than a report of an accidental CSC causing an accident? It's a report of an INTENTIONAL CSC that PREVENTED an accident or injury! I've seen several "accidental CSC crashes" in the past 12 months, but I haven't seen a single "Thank goodness for CSC! It saved me!"

    I agree fully with the OP. It seems like a poor choice to use the 2 sticks that pilots are supposed to maneuver the entire time they are flying as the CSC command.

    The best implementation that I can think of (apart from the new dedicated button the OP suggested) would be to leave the CSC commands the way they are now - but once triggered/armed, the RC would emit a loud tone. At that point, the pilot would have to tap the Power button briefly to confirm the CSC intent. Any other action would disarm the CSC mode and resume normal operations!

    I like the idea of a dedicated button for it - but that's obviously not backwards-compatible with all of the existing devices.
     
  12. syotr

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    Apparently it is very common. Number 1 on DJI's list of reasons for crashes. Straight from the horse's mouth.
    TOP 10 common pilot errors
     
    treerichard likes this.
  13. N017RW

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    Clearly highlights how operator error versus system failures are the overwhelming reason(s) for damaged aircraft.
    Failure to understand how to properly operate your aircraft is no excuse nor reason to fault DJI.
     
  14. ray rokni

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    Oh stop


    Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots
     
  15. Meta4

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    DJI's list isn't in any particular order and is quite misleading.
    Accidental CSC is very uncommon and probably isn't in the top 10 causes at all.
    Change CSC Procedure
    Change CSC Procedure
     
  16. syotr

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    Whether it is in order or not, it is in their top ten list! I have never done it accidentally and find it hard to image anyone doing it by mistake, but obviously it happened enough to make the top ten list and for them to change the design.
     
  17. msinger

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    It's not a common type of crash that is diagnosed here, but it has happened a handful of times. The OP did not know what happened in every case.
     
  18. Tenly

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    Agree completely - when the company themselves publish a list of the top failures - it would seem to be impossible for anyone not affiliated with the company to dispute it - yet apparently some still try - with no evidence other than their statement!

    I do however see how a new user could trigger it accidentally very easily. Picture someone new to the hobby - hasn't read any of the forums, has not even opened up the manual and (at best) has skimmed the quick start guide. The drone might have been a gift, a contest prize or an impulse purchase by some rich kid with a trust fund. They manage to get the drone in the air - and then they get so far away that they can barely see it - or can't see it at all. They start to wonder if the controls are still working at all. At this point they are no longer trying to "fly the plane responsibly", they are jamming the controls in all directions trying to get some sort of response out of it - and its too far away for them to see that the control are actually working! And eventually they stumble upon the CSC command and their drone crashes to the ground.

    BUT.... They'll see the telemetry is changing even if they can't see the drone....!!!

    Teleme-what??? Bruh - throw me another brewski...this things not workin'

    BUT.... All they have to do is press RTH to bring it home!

    RTH? Nah man - that's for "right hand turn". Where the hell is the "Come Back" button??? Here Bruh - you try....

    The reason that some people have a hard time picturing anyone accidentally invoking a CSC is because they assume that all pilots are like themselves and at least TRYING to fly the thing responsibly and that they CARE about the $1,000 investment. But even people who are trying to do things right can mess up. If you're in your 40's or older - surely you've interacted with enough people to know that everyone handles stress differently. So, consider a fairly new pilot who hasn't read the full manual and hasn't joined a forum. He has a few successful flights and builds up his confidence a bit - then something goes wrong or appears to go wrong and (instead of calmly thinking things through), he panics and starts moving the controls in every possible direction.

    And of course as I said in other posts, some 3rd party programs change the functions of the joysticks when in certain semi-autonomous flight modes.

    Anyhow - there are lots of ways it can happen - as DJI is acknowledging by placing it first on their top ten list. (Whether it really is first, or fifth, or eighth is largely irrelevant)

    A problem that is almost as big as the poor choice of stick combinations for CSC - is the apathetic attitude of some of we responsible fliers - especially in the case of my first few examples with the drunk, wealthy teenager. He's not taking out hobby responsibly - possibly generating bad press and is generally an embarrassment to all of us. So because he's such an *** - we don't advocate on their behalf and we think that he "deserves" what he got and we hope that he doesn't buy a replacement. And I definitely agree that the hobby would be better off without those people...

    BUT... the safety of innocent bystanders has to be more important and take precedence over punishing an ******* that definitely needs to be punished.

    Any preventable accident should be prevented.

    There are better, safer choices possible for killing the motors in flight - and ensuring that it's intentional. If the faction within our own ranks that believes that punishment is more important than safety would stop fighting us - DJI might actually listen and implement a smarter solution - but as long a their is dissension amongst us - any progress on this front will be as slow as molasses.

    It will likely take one of the DJI competitors implementing a smarter solution and highlighting to the media the WHY's of what makes their design better and safer before DJI will wake up and take notice!
     
    pig likes this.